Parent asking for too much information?

[planet.caravan67]

I have just started taking care of 2 new children, a one year old and a seven year old (for the summer) after a misunderstanding of my rates the parents now are asking for a photocopy my social insurance number and drivers license and name of people residing in my home.

Is this normal? Has anyone ever had any experience with anything like this? I really do need the job but this seems a little unusual, they claim as they plan on having their children in my care for a long time this kind of information would be helpful to them...

Thanks guys, please let me know as I'd like to make a decision on this matter asap

[Suzie_Homemaker]

No.

They are not your employers. You are self employed and they have contracted for care from you.

They will need your SIN on the tax receipt at the year end but there no reason to provide to for any other time. They certainly do NOT have reason for your drivers license nor names of your household members.

They opted to come to a day HOME and it perfectly reasonable that other people live in that home. It is none of their business who those people are, other than their relationship to you. They are certainly not entitled to private information about the other residents. Their time to make such a request was prior to contracts and you would be totally in rights to deny them that information. Most people just want know if your husband coming into contract with their child, and how often but what his name is, none of their business to demand.

[torontokids]

I would not give the info either. I don't even give my SIN number at tax time but my BIN. I would tell them straight up that this information is personal/confidential and you are not comfortable providing it. There would be concerns of identity theft as well. I would inquire further and ask why they want it? Is it that they want police checks done? If this is the case I would offer to do this for them at their expense.

[Lee-Bee]

My first response would be to ask WHY they want each of those. They may have a reasonable (though misguided) answer.

THEN, inform them they will receive a receipt at year end with your SIN and other needed information. Tell them who (as in my husband, a child) live with me but they do not need any more than that. Your drivers licence serves them no purpose.

They should have asked for this before beginning care with you.

Do you have a contract with them? It sounds like they feel you are working for them. This is not going to work long term. They need to understand you work for yourself and they are your clients and they need to respect the terms you set out.

[planet.caravan67]

To give you more information we had an interview in May when we spoke about rates and hours etc... the interview went great and shortly after they gave me the response that they wanted me to provide care for their children. I then emailed him a document stating a breakdown of my rates, how they are applied and certain expectations I had of them as customers regarding payment, notice of schedule changes, what to provide their children with etc... The father completely disregarded the section stating the prices as he thought that we had agreed to something else verbally and the rates on the document didn't apply to him. friday when payment was due there was a confusion regarding the rates and pretty much accused me of changing the numbers saying we verbally agreed to one thing during the original interview and now I changed them. I did not do that and he would know because if he had read the document i emailed him and thought about it he would know. Also in the document I stated if there were any questions or concerns to contact me. He never did so I assumed everything was ok.

I told him he must have misunderstood me at the original interview and what was written in the document was what I had verbally presented to him and he agreed. He accepted what I said but later on sent me an email requesting all that information. I did not provide him with my SIN and will not, for one I can't find my card and second I do not feel comfortable, if it is needed when it is time for taxes I will provide but aside from that I don't see how that information is relevant. The only reason he stated in the email was that he said as he plans to have his children in my care for years this information would be helpful to him, how I do not know.

The only thing I can think of is that they are not trusting me and feel as if I am cheating them and want to have some information about me in case if I ever did something wrong they would have some way to track me.

I am currently quite disappointed at the whole thing and now feel the relationship is a little sour. I am not particularly happy with the tone he spoke to me in and the accusation he hinted at but at the same time am trying to be understanding. What would you do at this point?

[playfelt]

Stay firm in your expectations from the family - as in don't let him bully you into doing or giving them something you don't want to or have to legally. They may as a family be getting flack from other family members such as a grandparent asking but what do you know about this person - they may be looking for that information so they can do their own background check on you using the assumption they are your employer. I might be wrong but from past experience this kind of thinking is quite common in certain ethnic populations where their cultural ways are different. Not that that matters as you have the control in this situation not them. Be prepared to lose them and if you feel threatened in any way terminate but you are within your legal rights to stand your ground on this and say no. Keep proof that you emailed the rate documents to them before they signed the contract forms just in case.

[planet.caravan67]

I have never had this kind of issue before with past customers, everyone I have chosen to work with has just accepted what I had to offer and not any more questions asked so this is all new to me.

I do not exactly have a formal contract, I have written a document stating rates, hours of operation, payment types and frequency, and how I should be notified of their schedule, schedule changes and emergencies, it might as well be a contract, all its missing is signatures from both parties. We had a verbal agreement on the hours, scheduling and rates (at least I thought we did) I did not ask for any personal information aside from contacts and emergency contacts.

One of the parents is a government worker, and I believe they may be able to access people's information, maybe they just decided to keep a close eye on me since they feel I have tried to cheat them somehow...
Before yesterday evening even when he paid me before I saw the amount it has been nothing but compliments coming from them, 100% positive situation, now I just don't know
I've never stolen a penny from anyone and keep track of time down to the minute of when children are dropped off and picked up. I do the best I can so I am not over charging but also not losing money
I am prepared to lose the customer, I'd rather be customer-less than have someone I cannot communicate with

How do you guys charge customers? Weekly, daily or hourly rates and how do you determine how to charge somebody? I currently have my own system that has been working out just fine for previous customers. Do you have contracts for customers?

Thank you everyone for all your replies

[Suzie_Homemaker]

the interview went great and shortly after they gave me the response that they wanted me to provide care for their children.

Did you not provider a contract, detailing start date, expectations and daily rate for signing?

friday when payment was due there was a confusion regarding the rates and pretty much accused me of changing the numbers saying we verbally agreed to one thing during the original interview and now I changed them.

A contract with rates and start date that had been signed would have avoided this.

On Friday, when fees were due, had you already provided care without a contract or were fees due in advance for starting on Monday?

later on sent me an email requesting all that information.

Did you ask why he wanted it?

What would you do at this point?

I would respond that your SIN will be given on the receipt at year end so he can claim his child care tax credit. I would state that you are not willing to provide the other information as it's wholly inappropriate, it was not a condition you agreed to when care was arranged, and that it gives out all of the sensitive data which we are always reminded to keep safe and private. I would ask why he feels it will be helpful and what purposes he intends using it for? (I still would not give it).

I have never had this kind of issue before with past customers, everyone I have chosen to work with has just accepted what I had to offer and not any more questions asked so this is all new to me.

It is common for parent to check out their carer but that usually happen with police check that you have to get, they can't without your permission and by talking to past clients/references. The information on your license, your SIN without a receipt, and your household members information, is not information that he should be given.

I do not exactly have a formal contract, I have written a document stating rates, hours of operation, payment types and frequency, and how I should be notified of their schedule, schedule changes and emergencies, it might as well be a contract, all its missing is signatures from both parties.

It is the signatures which make it a contract. Without signatures, it just a piece of paper, with your wishes on, and has no legal standing. It might as well be blank.

We had a verbal agreement on the hours, scheduling and rates (at least I thought we did) I did not ask for any personal information aside from contacts and emergency contacts.

The problem with verbal agreement is two people can have different opinion on what was agreed, as you now see. When it verbal, you can't prove what was said and a judge has to guess what more likely. Now, if you close at 6pm, and he come at 7pm, how can you prove that he misunderstood? How can you claim late fees if you can't prove he was late?

One of the parents is a government worker, and I believe they may be able to access people's information, maybe they just decided to keep a close eye on me since they feel I have tried to cheat them somehow...

This would be totally unacceptable to use work privileges to personal information for own benefit. This likely an offense that will get them dismissed. This not okay whatever their reasons. If one can access your information, their ability to do so is only given for them to do their job. It not given for them to use for own benefit.

Before yesterday evening even when he paid me before I saw the amount it has been nothing but compliments coming from them, 100% positive situation, now I just don't know
I've never stolen a penny from anyone and keep track of time down to the minute of when children are dropped off and picked up. I do the best I can so I am not over charging but also not losing money

Don't let people make you feel this way. It your home not just a day care. If they not behaving as they should, let them go.

How do you guys charge customers? Weekly, daily or hourly rates and how do you determine how to charge somebody?

I charge a daily rate. Children are registered for care on set days. They pay for the days reserved for the child even if they don't come. My hours are 7.30am to 4.30pm. If they come early, I am not open. If they pick up late, they pay for being late as I can not just leave their child and head off for own errands. I multiply my daily fee by the number of days a child is registered each week. I then double it for a two-weekly payment schedule. Fees are paid in advance, on the first day of the pay period at drop off or before. No fee = no care.

I currently have my own system that has been working out just fine for previous customers. Do you have contracts for customers?

It not matter what you charge or how your system works. But a signed contract before they start care which details what fees are, when they are due etc is vital to make sure there no misunderstanding.

Cover all basics so no misunderstand later.

Who is contract between? Your name and parent name.
Who is contract of care for? Child name.
Hours and Days that you have contracted to be available for client
When fees due
How they pay - e-mail, cash, cheque
Amount of fees
Late Payment policy and penalty if you have
Late pickup policy and penalty if you have
Vacation Policy - for you and them - How much notice? Are fees still due?
Illness Policy - for you and them - Can their child come if sick? Do they pay if not allowed to come? What if you sick?
What is provided by them and what is provided by you
Circumstance you terminate with no notice
Notice period for them to leave your care - you and them

It very easy to not have contract and for lot of people, it all work okay but contract very important when something go wrong. When contrat written and signed and copy for both side, it very simple to refer back to agreement. When people in your care for years, it not so easy to remember detail of conversation and if client not remember that they cannot bring sick child, pay late, come late, pay vacation, it can be upsetting to be told when they not remember. Written contract tells everyone what was agreed.

[TinyTwigs]

Do not give out any personal information. It doesn't matter why they are asking it's none of their business. If they want to know all info of persons I would advise they go to a daycare center as you run a home daycare and there will be other people living there.

I find it a little fishy that you had an interview way back in May and they didn't ask you for this info and SUDDENLY they need it.

They are over stepping their boundaries as clients and I would let them know up front. I would also let them know that it doesn't matter how long they plan on staying that type of personal information will not ever be available to them.

As for the SIN number I never ever give that out to anyone at anytime. All clients will get is a yearly receipt with my signature. I claim everything on my end and I have never had a problem. This is my first year doing daycare but in the past I did do childcare here and there and it was treated the same way.

If it was me personally this is exactly what I would say:

" The info you requested is personal and will not be given out at anytime. I find it odd that we had our interview back in May and suddenly you are asking me for personal information. SIN is not provided and it not necessary but for tax purposes if needed will be provided. My driver's licenses is not necessary either as it would be like asking for a health card.

I would let them know who lives in the house but I would not give out names bc that none of their business.

I was watch out if I were you and depending on they react on your response to saying no I would start looking for new clients!

[Suzie_Homemaker]

As for the SIN number I never ever give that out to anyone at anytime. All clients will get is a yearly receipt with my signature. I claim everything on my end and I have never had a problem. This is my first year doing daycare but in the past I did do childcare here and there and it was treated the same way.

Parent need SIN on their tax receipt for them to claim child care tax credit. Without your SIN, they cannot claim.

It requirement of CRA.

Only way around is to register business and get business number (BIN) to include on receipt instead.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tg/p134/p134-14e.pdf