$15.00 per day daycare?

[betsy]

I don't know which section to post this appropriately. What do you think of the promised $15.00 a day daycare by Mulcair?

Wouldn't that put as out of business?

[cfred]

First, I think it's a really ridiculous idea. We all know our country can't afford it, but hey...what's a few billion more out of taxpayer's pockets, right?

That aside, he's only promising 1000 000 spaces, CANADA WIDE. We have more than 350,000 children in care (regulated and Independent) in Ontario alone. 1000,000 isn't going to cut it.

Next, as we've seen from the dismal reports coming out of the Quebec system, we know it's not going to work. We KNOW this! Their model is touted as being some sort of childcare utopia by both Quebec and the Canadian Childcare Federation (which is another government funded organization btw...in case you weren't aware ). But it is widely known that it isn't economically feasible even with the other provinces funneling money into it. In addition to being a financial train wreck, they've had 2 ECE walk outs due to poor working conditions and pay. I spoke to one Quebec provider who said they are so poorly treated and living under the thumb of the government and agencies that many are actually afraid to speak out for fear of being black listed in the profession. When did childcare become the mafia??? AND, on top of all that, research shows that they children in the system are actually behind in almost every area of learning.

But, having been involved in the Ontario political issues for the past 18 months, I can say that regardless of what a fiasco UCC will bring upon the country, the government in their all knowing wisdom will probably bring it in. If NDP gets in (or Liberal) then so does UCC. I believe there will still be a place for us, but not as big of one. I believe we will become childcare to the more 'elite' sector, which is exactly what market I'll be targeting. We'll get those people who hate the idea of sending their child to institutional care in a class of dangerous ratio proportions or to the underfunded agency providers. Providers who wish to stay in the game will have to up the ante substantially and really target specific clientele in their area. We're already seeing this with the government funded free daycare (ehem...sorry...FDK) . Montessori schools (in my city anyway) are seeing exponential growth in enrollment since FDK rolled out. I don't believe daycare will be any different.

[babydom]

I've never heard of this. What is the 15$/day daycare?

[CrazyEight]

The federal NDP's childcare proposal. They want to implement subsidized daycare across the country, where parents pay no more than $15/day. Of course, they are only talking about "regulated, centre-based care," meaning ICP's across the country will have the same problem we are having in Ontario now - the majority of spaces and the majority of children are in private care, which the provincial governments won't regulate, so therefore we will not be able to take on subsidized clients.

I am so so torn by the upcoming federal election, because I've always voted NDP in the past. However, this scheme is so ridiculous I feel I can't in good conscience vote for a party that wants to implement it.

A) the promised spaces will need to be created with the building of new centers or the re-furbishing of existing centers or taking over and re-doing existing buildings, like closed schools, etc. This will take YEARS to accomplish and will cost billions - and the NDP may not even still be in power by the time all of it's new promised spaces are operational - and then what?

B) Quebec has proven that the model of "one fee fits all" is not financially feasible, as they have switched from $7/day childcare to a sliding scale based on income. Why would the federal government open themselves up to the same unsustainable model that Quebec has, when they have a failed example staring them in the face?

C) ICP's are in every province, and, using Ontario as an example, many more children are in "unlicensed" care than in centers and licensed-agency care combined. This $15/day cap will only apply to children in subsidized spaces. The new spaces will be snapped up in a heartbeat and tons of parents will be left stuck with no more subsidized spaces available, and will have to continue to pay ICP rates.

D) Many ICP's who's clients are lucky enough to find subsidized spots will be out of business, and will be forced to look for new work, potentially adding MORE kids (their own) to the childcare system that will already be overloaded.

E) This proposal assumes that parents' first choice will always be centre-based, institutional care. Some of these new centers are even being proposed to be built attached to schools, apparently. Many parents do not WANT to place their 12-month-old (or younger!) into an institution, and choose home-based care as their first choice. This is taking that choice away from them.

I don't necessarily disagree with a national childcare program or policy, but it needs to encompass ALL forms of childcare to be viable for all Canadians. Agencies that are currently allowed by the provinces to run differently (some for-profit, some not, for example) need to be regulated first, in order to ensure the same care across the country. If the NDP wants to introduce a national childcare program, then shouldn't the federal government then take control of the childcare sector away from the provinces? If we could ALL be licensed by the federal government, and ALL take on clients receiving subsidy by the federal government, then that could actually be an actual childcare solution for all Canadians.

Of course, doing that would completely bankrupt the country, because the feds can't afford to support the subsidized spaces they have committed to, let alone afford to subsidize all the children needing care across the country.

[superfun]

I can't imagine how they would implement it, but in Manitoba, parents with children over the age of 2 only pay $18.20/day if they're in a licensed (and funded) home or center. So not much will change here, unless they create more spaces.

[babydom]

So how will this take business away from ICP? When all the new 15$/day spaces are filled the rest of the families will go with ICPs, no? Does Quebec not have this now with 7$/day? Also not every family is poor so not everyone will qualify for the 15$/day daycare if they make more they'll have to pay reg daycare like now, right?

[cfred]

Interestingly, it's the wealthier people who seem to get the $7 spots in Quebec. It seems to be whoever gets the heads up on a space first gets the spot, not who needs it most. And UCC is exactly what it sounds like - UNIVERSAL Child Care. Everyone pays the same. Period. No qualifying required.

This will, of course, take business away from ICPs. It's going to reduce the client pool substantially. Like I said before, those who wish to stay in it will have to adapt to the new climate.

[betsy]

Imagine.....what quality of care can they provide with $15.00 per day when the minimum wage will also go up to $15.00 per hour (which was also promised)? I don't think any ECE grad will want to work at minimum wage.

How many children per adult ratio can UCP afford? Taxes are sure to rise up....the money has to come from somewhere.

I suppose we'll have to hang in there until the dust settles and till parents begin to realize what quality of care $15.00 gives them. Hanging in there is the tough part though, especially when we rely on childcare as an income.

One thing for sure, it'll be a debacle. A costly one, for all of us.

[cfred]

The childcare will only cost the parents $15. The government chips in the rest. But, as you can imagine, corners will always be cut. ECE wages are set to rise $2/hour over the next 2 years, but really, that still isn't enough for what they do. I worked in a few centres and, for the most part, it was a miserable, stressful experience.

Yep, debacle sums it up. Massive tax hikes will hit everyone in order to foot the bill for this.

[jodaycare]

It will put ICPs out of business because only "licensed"(agenc y) homes will be able to offer it just as only agency homes can offer subsidy now. And the Ontario government will not allow independent licensing so unless Mulcair changes that then we are SOL