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  1. #1
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    Advice regarding paid vacation

    Hello,
    my son has been with a provider for 3 months and when we gave the provider her last cheque, she said we need to pay her for 1 week vacation.
    She already took 3 days off. Things got complicated when I mentioned that I should remove the 3 days from the 1 week I owe her and she said I should pay her for 2 weeks now. It does say in her contract that I have to pay for 10 days vacation, which I assume is for a year. It doesn't say in her contract that I have to pay her the full 10 days upon termination.

    I thought the general rule was prorata? 3 months = 2.5 days, since she already took 3 days, I don't owe her anything?
    She called and said she wants to stay on good terms and it's up to us to decide how much we should pay her for the vacation.

    I personally don't think we owe her anything in terms of holidays. But we "feel" we have to pay her something. She mentioned that past parents had paid her the full 2 weeks when they terminated contracts before, but then, I don't know how long these parents had their children in her service, or whether the parents felt they had to pay her to get peace of mind.

    What should I do? pay her for 2 days? (1 week minus the 3 days she already took), don't pay anything?

  2. #2
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    If your son was only with her for 3months I think I would pay for 3 days (1 day per month of care). It sounds like you paid for this during your time with her so I wouldn't pay any more.

    I think it is different if you have been in care for a long time (1yr or more) and your time ends right before the caregivers scheduled vacation. Then I would lean more to paying for the pending vacation out of respect of her working for so long and earning it. But only 3 months in I don't think you 'owe' her any additional vacation.

    Just my thoughts.

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  4. #3
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    I thought the general rule was prorata? 3 months = 2.5 days, since she already took 3 days, I don't owe her anything?
    For an employee, yes. But day care providers are not employees, we are self-employed, which why parents not pay min wage for each hour of care.

    If her contract say 10 days a year, then she get 10 days a year but I do agree, where only there 3 months, expecting full year vacation pay has to be clearly stated in her contract.

    It not matter how long child in care when it comes to termination - the notice period is whatever was agreed for both sides.

    You must check your contract carefully to see if it says that 10 days paid vacation is owed by all and follow contracted agreement exactly.

    If this turn nasty and you end up in court, it will be the contract that is used. I would suggest not mentioning the pro rata calculation in court because that implies you are using Labour standard rules which are for employer/employee relationship and if judge feels you believe she is your employee, he can apply min wage for the duration of the employment term and you will end up owing the under payment.

    Decide very carefully if you want her treated as employee or if you want stick to the independent contractor/self-employed contract where she not protected by Labour Standards and min wage. But you can't mix and match the rules to suit yourself. She's one or the other.

    Go back your contract and read it very, very, carefully and see if it says that all 10 days vacation are due regardless of length time in her care.

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  6. #4
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    My concern is why you left her after only 3 months. If it was for deceitful reasons - like child was on a wait list for another program and you finally got a spot, etc. then realize that you have put the provider in the position of having told other prospective clients that she didn't have spaces and now is facing a loss of income. That likely explains why she feels she needs to be compensated. I assume that you gave the proper notification as is in your contract and plan to pay for that period even if you don't use it.

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  8. #5
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    It's all about how her contract is worded. If it says you are to pay for 10 days holidays regardless of of length of care then you owe her. If it doesn't say anything about it then I agree that for 3 months of care 3 paid days off is fair. It's all about how she has it worded. If she has failed to be specific in her contract then I think she needs to take the loss with you and make the change for all clients going forward.

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  10. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by playfelt View Post
    My concern is why you left her after only 3 months. If it was for deceitful reasons - like child was on a wait list for another program and you finally got a spot, etc. then realize that you have put the provider in the position of having told other prospective clients that she didn't have spaces and now is facing a loss of income. That likely explains why she feels she needs to be compensated. I assume that you gave the proper notification as is in your contract and plan to pay for that period even if you don't use it.

    I gave her 3 weeks notice instead of 2 weeks, to give her time to get another family and the last week (which is this week) I wasn't going to send him all the 5 days but to do it gradually and already gave her the cheque for the week.

    The reason we decided to terminate is that we had some concerns about her. She basically got angry at me over the phone when we discussed the holiday thing and accused me of trying to trick her.

    I've seen her stressed a few times and she has a scary look on her face when she's upset. She's cold and abrupt at times. She was perfectly fine when I gave her notice. I was a bit worried when I gave her notice in case she would get angry or snap at me. I don't think a relationship with a provider should be based on fear and have trust issues.

    We were planning to leave our son in her care until next year. Thankfully my in-laws has accepted to look after him for a few months, until we get a spot at a centre. I don't think we will look for a home daycare based on this bad experience. I know there are very good providers out there but I really don't want to go through something like this again.

    Anyway, my husband is going to look at the contract again today. If it says we have to pay her 2 weeks upon termination then we'll pay her. But if it's not specified and I only need to pay for 10 days per year, then we won't pay her anything. She also hasn't booked any vacation yet. If she had, we would have paid her.
    Last edited by CW888; 09-04-2015 at 09:59 AM.

  11. #7
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    Well regardless of the reasons as to why your leaving you'll have to abide by the contract. Which you said you were so that's great. Get your husband to bring the contract to her and ask her for clarification on what is to be paid. Then pay then wipe your hands clean and move on. Please please please don't let this bad provider tint your home daycare views. Tons out there that are way better! Best lesson here is go with your gut feeling. You said your hubby didn't like her from the ghetto so you should've listened to him in the beginning. (Don't tell him I said that ). sick days can be used for anything in a home daycare setting. It can be for when the provider is sick, when her children are sick, when she needs a recharge day or when she has an apt. So the fact that she wasn't sick is irrelevant. Although on that same note.....3 sick days off in 3 mths???? That seems like a lot right off the bat. Good luck with everything. Hopefully the next provider is a way better experiences for you!!

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  13. #8
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    Based on what you say, I think you totally right to pull your child. If anyone has any concerns about their child's carer, I strongly believe it the only option.

    That said, a contract is a legal document. I think wise to double check the exact wording so you not leaving yourself open to legal action. I know it suck. I know it bitter pill to swallow. But you must protect self and own credit rating which would be affected if judgement against you.

    I agree - if her contract not specifically say that you must pay all leave on termination, then don't.

    Also, I agree. Her 3 days vacation from before not counted as vacation days. Again, this come down to wording on contract. I have 10 personal days - that how it worded. So if I was sick and had unused personal days, I would be paid when sick but if I had taken 10 days vacation, then my personal days all used up. Just make sure cover self.

    My son is contract lawyer and he always telling me that if I have contract issue, put it in writing. Be clear what you not agreeing with, why, and what you intend doing. So, if you look at contract tonight and see that it not saying all 10 days owed, then e-mail and say that the contract does not say that, you only obligated to give notice of 2 weeks which you abided by and you not paying the rest.

    Good luck.

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  15. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by babydom View Post
    Well regardless of the reasons as to why your leaving you'll have to abide by the contract. Which you said you were so that's great. Get your husband to bring the contract to her and ask her for clarification on what is to be paid. Then pay then wipe your hands clean and move on. Please please please don't let this bad provider tint your home daycare views. Tons out there that are way better! Best lesson here is go with your gut feeling. You said your hubby didn't like her from the ghetto so you should've listened to him in the beginning. (Don't tell him I said that ). sick days can be used for anything in a home daycare setting. It can be for when the provider is sick, when her children are sick, when she needs a recharge day or when she has an apt. So the fact that she wasn't sick is irrelevant. Although on that same note.....3 sick days off in 3 mths???? That seems like a lot right off the bat. Good luck with everything. Hopefully the next provider is a way better experiences for you!!
    Actually, I told my husband he was right and it's my fault for not interviewing more providers. We knew a very good one on the same street but she couldn't take my son in. Honestly she seemed nice during the interview, but when my husband dealt with her afterwards he had concerns and I thought she was just having a bad day...I was happy to deal with her until she got angry at me. Then I understood what my husband had to deal with before.

    Honestly, we've been resonable all along. We paid her on time, every week, we paid her stats holidays, everytime she called to say my son has a fever, we picked him up. Another time he had scarlet fever, we kept him home for 3 days even though he wasn't contagious anymore. Once she called because my son was too cranky and she was having a hard time. In total, my husband and I had to take almost 2 weeks during those 3 months to look after my son. I understand when a child is sick, we don't have a choice, but it happened so many times we started to think that she was trying to find excuses to not look after him. Once home after we picked him up, he would be totally fine. If I tell her he's teething, she would call within the next few hours to say he's too cranky, not sleeping, etc and to come pick him up.

    My husband always give her the cheque on a Friday morning for the next week, while other parents give the cheque in the afternoon. One time he forgot, she asked for her cheque in a way that didn't go well with my husband. Like she didn't even give him a chance to give it to her in the afternoon. My husband said to me: "she gives the impression that money is more important to her than providing daycare". There were times when my husband forgot his cheque book and had to go back home to get it so as not to upset her. I thought when I gave her the notice it would go so bad, I was prepared to look after my son for the whole notice period and pay her the 3 weeks.
    Last edited by CW888; 09-04-2015 at 10:02 AM.

  16. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzie_Homemaker View Post
    Based on what you say, I think you totally right to pull your child. If anyone has any concerns about their child's carer, I strongly believe it the only option.

    That said, a contract is a legal document. I think wise to double check the exact wording so you not leaving yourself open to legal action. I know it suck. I know it bitter pill to swallow. But you must protect self and own credit rating which would be affected if judgement against you.

    I agree - if her contract not specifically say that you must pay all leave on termination, then don't.

    Also, I agree. Her 3 days vacation from before not counted as vacation days. Again, this come down to wording on contract. I have 10 personal days - that how it worded. So if I was sick and had unused personal days, I would be paid when sick but if I had taken 10 days vacation, then my personal days all used up. Just make sure cover self.
    Well she didn't use it for sick days which is why I thought it was not right to take it off her sick days. One day she used it for a a day out and she told us at the time to take it off her holidays. The other 2 days, no reason was given, just that she couldn't look after my son on these days. I will ask her if one the 2 days she had to attend to her sick child, if she says yes, then pay her for that day?

    I'm waiting to hear from my husband regarding the contract. Hopefully he was able to take a look at it. We didn't get a copy from her after she signed it and the copy we made before signing was lost during our house move.
    Last edited by CW888; 09-04-2015 at 10:03 AM.

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