Could there be changes to the CCEYA?

[ottawamommy]

Don't forget that you can adjust your rates to absorb the fees. I would expect that everyone who joins will do that. It's also tax deductible. I think your point about parents looking to Coop affiliates is probably accurate. We already see that (to some extent) with the current agencies. However, a lot of agency care is, according to parents I've talked to, not all that awesome for the simple reason that the providers aren't left with enough money to reinvest in their businesses. I think that plays against the Agency sector's popularity. I just put together a video presentation of ICP care with submissions from all over the province. I can say that there are some amazing, AMAZING home daycares out there! Made me quite proud of our industry, actually There will always be people who think licensed is the bees knees, not really understanding the system. Once a coop is in place, and we can preserve our autonomy while bringing in the appropriate oversight, I would think parents would absolutely take that into consideration and competition will be just that much stiffer. Or I could be completely wrong.

I get what you are saying but if I keep increasing my rates how is home daycare going to be more affordable vs a center. My goal is to offer qualify child care as a low cost not to keep raising my rates. Believe is or not a family asked me if I was licensed and I said nope private and their words were "thank god" lol

[betsy]

I get what you are saying but if I keep increasing my rates how is home daycare going to be more affordable vs a center. My goal is to offer qualify child care as a low cost not to keep raising my rates. Believe is or not a family asked me if I was licensed and I said nope private and their words were "thank god" lol

The way I see it, the private home daycares are slowly getting squeezed out. They're making it tougher. There are political parties who will want a universal daycare, and once that's implemented hardly any private home daycares can compete....unless we become like old-time babysitters who can be dimed away.

I think there's not that much choice left but to evolve with the times. Having said that.....does a COOP license require us to have ECE diploma before we get licensed?

[lplplp]

Don't forget that you can adjust your rates to absorb the fees. I would expect that everyone who joins will do that. It's also tax deductible. I think your point about parents looking to Coop affiliates is probably accurate. We already see that (to some extent) with the current agencies. However, a lot of agency care is, according to parents I've talked to, not all that awesome for the simple reason that the providers aren't left with enough money to reinvest in their businesses. I think that plays against the Agency sector's popularity. I just put together a video presentation of ICP care with submissions from all over the province. I can say that there are some amazing, AMAZING home daycares out there! Made me quite proud of our industry, actually There will always be people who think licensed is the bees knees, not really understanding the system. Once a coop is in place, and we can preserve our autonomy while bringing in the appropriate oversight, I would think parents would absolutely take that into consideration and competition will be just that much stiffer. Or I could be completely wrong.

Do parents really want us increasing our rates again?? Many providers have already done this due to Bill 10. How high can we go before parents can't even afford a home daycare? A lot of parents choose a home daycare because the cost of centres can be outrageous. My rate currently is very average, even slightly below average... When I get contacted by parents, quite a few say they can't afford my rate as it is now, especially if they have more than one child. Becoming a part of the co-op and having to increase our rates could make us have even more trouble filling our spaces. Parents think child care is too expensive as it is.

[cfred]

Lol...I don't doubt that (re the parent being relieved that you weren't licensed). The word is starting to get around about the licensed sector. And I understand what you're saying about keeping your rates down. But I think the increase would be something like $1/day....maybe a little more, but not much. $700-$1000 spread out over a year really isn't much.

It's unfortunate that the government put us in this position...but they have. All we can do now is move forward and change with the times. I just read that they are, indeed, opening up a bunch of new institutional spaces, so the move to licensing is coming. That's my feeling. There is also a massive campaign from the childcare advocates for UCC and regulating everyone. When I say massive, I'm not exaggerating. I plan to prepare myself for that eventuality. I want the option there to be licensed. If the Cooperative doesn't get off the ground because of lack of support, that's one very nice option that you won't have and that would be a shame....and probably a regret down the road. Waiting to see how it all plays out before offering support is a short sighted notion...by the time it plays out, it may be too late and that alternative is lost and the existing agency model is all that's left. Does that make sense?

[lplplp]

Lol...I don't doubt that (re the parent being relieved that you weren't licensed). The word is starting to get around about the licensed sector. And I understand what you're saying about keeping your rates down. But I think the increase would be something like $1/day....maybe a little more, but not much. $700-$1000 spread out over a year really isn't much.

It's unfortunate that the government put us in this position...but they have. All we can do now is move forward and change with the times. I just read that they are, indeed, opening up a bunch of new institutional spaces, so the move to licensing is coming. That's my feeling. There is also a massive campaign from the childcare advocates for UCC and regulating everyone. When I say massive, I'm not exaggerating. I plan to prepare myself for that eventuality. I want the option there to be licensed. If the Cooperative doesn't get off the ground because of lack of support, that's one very nice option that you won't have and that would be a shame....and probably a regret down the road. Waiting to see how it all plays out before offering support is a short sighted notion...by the time it plays out, it may be too late and that alternative is lost and the existing agency model is all that's left. Does that make sense?

When I say waiting to see how it plays out, I meant including the co-op... Waiting to see if the government allows it and then waiting to see what happens with UCC. Most of us aren't involved with creating the co-op so all we can do is wait and see if it comes to light and then make our decision about it.

I definitely think $700-$1000 a year is a lot!! We will have to just disagree on that point lol.

[cfred]

When I support the Coop, I mean fill in the surveys, etc that help us to gather data and put together our proposal. That has been the biggest frustration and the most work...getting people to participate. You may feel that you're not involved, but you can be on some level. Next week is the big meeting...our biggest I think. We're pitching the idea to the head of the Early Years Division and in front of agency big wigs (who are as hostile to us in person as they are in the media, btw). A tremendous amount of work has gone into this, with my portion being quite humble compared to others.

Yes, that amount is nothing to sneeze at. However, it is a far cry better than $12,000/yr.

So far as raising rates, I know it can be more difficult in some areas, I'm aware of that. I simply threw it out there as an example of what you can do to make the fees more manageable. We know not everyone will join the Coop, and that' completely fine. We have a fairly specific demographic. The question to ask yourself is this "Is this an option I might appreciate in the future?" The advocates will never stop pushing us down...ever. Every time there's an infant death, we'll be on the front pages and our sector takes another hit. They are and will continue to work to push us out of the industry. Were any of you even notified of the new bill when they started consultation on it several years ago? How many of you didn't hear about it till it hit the news? The agencies knew and were heavily involved in the creation of the new legislation, from it's inception! Go read some articles, talk to other ICPs involved in this, read up on folks like Martha Friendly, Marni Flaherty, members of HCCAO, CBCC. THESE have been the influences over the government's leanings for years. CICPO is in there now, and the MOE is interested. If you don't want to participate in the Coop, fine. But really, support the people who are representing you and working to change the image of independent care for ALL of you...even those who don't want to join the Coop.

[babydom]

My worry is if we are "forced" into the coop eventually. Because we can't fill spots because parents want providers attached to the coop or for other reasons. Or I want to join but As a single mom with a full daycare I am extremely tight. Even if I raise my rates, which I can't because I'm already on the high end how do I afford the coop fee??? It may just be 700-1000$ to most caregivers but to me, even 58-83$ a mth is hard. I dont have that.

[lplplp]

My worry is if we are "forced" into the coop eventually. Because we can't fill spots because parents want providers attached to the coop or for other reasons. Or I want to join but As a single mom with a full daycare I am extremely tight. Even if I raise my rates, which I can't because I'm already on the high end how do I afford the coop fee??? It may just be 700-1000$ to most caregivers but to me, even 58-83$ a mth is hard. I dont have that.

I agree. If the co-op is approved and comes to light sooner than later, my own children could still be under 6 which leaves me only 3 daycare spaces. I've had an 'over 2' space sitting empty for quite a while now. With only 2 daycare children, there's no way I could afford it. Even if I was full, money would still be tight. When my children are over 6 and I have more spaces, who knows if I'll be able to fill them all with the new rules. So even then, it could be very difficult paying such a large fee. I wish we could have some sort of association maybe instead of an agency. I think a lot of providers would be more willing to join a province-wide association for a much lower fee. I'm thinking a couple hundred dollars a year max. It would show our professionalism by choosing to belong to the association. I don't see why workshops and such couldn't be offered with something like that as well. If you want to participate in a certain workshop or course, etc., you would pay a separate fee for it. If you don't, you just pay your membership fee yearly. Just my thoughts! If you want to accept subsidized children, then you would still have to join an agency of course. I just think the cost of the co-op is a little outrageous.

[lplplp]

I know that a portion of the co-op fee would go towards inspections. I'm not someone that's all for the inspections. I'm running my own business out of my own home. Having someone come into my house to inspect my home and how I'm running my daycare is invasive. If the ministry really wants oversight for all home daycares, they should make their own plan to have this happen. Maybe have all home daycares have to register so that they are aware of each daycare's location. They can send inspectors if they wish. Having a portion of the co-op fee go towards inspections is essentially me paying to have myself inspected lol.

[cfred]

The fee increase to absorb a $700-$1000 membership fee is $0.60 to $0.85 per child per day. That is really not an astronomical increase. My contract is set up to increase by $1/day/year just to keep up with the cost of living, therefore I won't need to implement an increase. But really, I know the full amount looks intimidating, but a less than $1/day increase? That's what would hold you back? Maybe I'm missing something.....

And no one is going to force anyone into the coop. If you don't want to join, then don't. It's all good. But there are many of us who do want this and we're working hard to bring it to fruition. Our model is far less invasive than the agency model, but there will be oversight. The ministry will NOT come up with their own plan to do this. They have said it. They won't foot the bill, which is why agency fees are so high. Our model is far more streamlined than the existing model, though we have to work through the nuts and bolts of it still. And you may think the cost of the coop is outrageous, but that's the cost for the inspections, which are a necessity for licensing. And truthfully, I'd like to see our sector opened up for ministry inspections. We all know that there are some bad providers out there. If this helps isolate them and push them out of the industry, then all the better IMO.