Can some explain Quebec $7.40 daycare system. Lot of questions.

[kindertime]

What happen in private (unregulated) day home in Quebec?
Is unregulated dayhome allowed?
Do parent pay all bill?
Do they get refund from government so all parent only pay $7.40 even in private dayhome?
Is number of children/ratio same?

Part Four:

I am not aware of any regulation covering private home daycares. I believe centers, be they private or public, have to follow regulations. If anyone wants to open a private home daycare in Quebec, they can. They can have up to 6 children not including their own. I have not been able to find out if there is a restriction on the number of infants.

Theoretically, these private home daycares have to follow the other laws of the province, they just don't have to follow the childcare laws. So for example, the Consumer Protection Act, I mentioned before, would still apply to them. However, because there is no oversight, and if the parents don't know the terms of their contracts may be illegal, the private home daycare could get away with a lot.

As far as what they can charge, it is like the rest of the country - you can charge whatever the market will bear. If they require parents to provide all food, well, so be it. If they want to increase their fees on a moments notice, fair enough if they can still keep their clients.

I have already explained the tax implecations of going with private daycare, and that for some famillies, it can be more advantageous. There was a story on the news a couple of months back about Revenu Quebec raiding a bunch of houses for illegal claiming of daycare fees. They didn't go into details but what I'm sure was happening was that they were either not providing daycare at all but still giving out receipts to people; or, and this is more likely, giving out receipts for amounts way higher than they were charging. So if the daycare charged $20 dollars, the parent claimed they were paying $35 dollars and got $30 back in tax credits, they would split the difference with the daycare provider. At least that's my guess.

The real situation here is kind of like what I'm hearing about from Cfred and others in Ontario. The people making decisions about how to organize a daycare system, don't actually believe daycare is a good thing. Like as if we should all go back to the 'perfect" society of the 50's where happy housewives stayed home and the kids all played on the streets. "How was your day, dear?"

My own dad, who is so in favour of the daycare system here that he thinks it should actually be free and not $7/day, is totally in support of the Ontario gov't and their handling of daycare. Because they are "just looking out for the children." I can only shake my head, 'cuz he won't listen to me anyway.

If anyone is interested, I can go into an explanation of how the union fits (or doesn't) into this picture. Otherwise, I think I've covered the basics for now. For anyone who has read my whole diatribe, thanks, and now go have a glass of wine or something, sheesh!

[Suzie_Homemaker]

Thank you so much. I think I have to read few times to sink in what it mean vs understand on surface level but very thankful you explain so much. Now to let sink in.

[33 Daiseys]

kindertime - thank you for all of you time in explaining how i works in Quebec. I just wanted to say on a personal level, that you should go into writing. You are very very good at story telling.

[kindertime]

I would like to add from Suzie's OP, the whole question of the NDP plan, I have no idea what they think they are going to do. The Quebec system exists here because of very specific public attitudes and interests. It will NOT work anywhere else. There are really great social programs in European countries but when you consider their populations and their geographical sizes, you would have to see that applying the same models here, in the second largest country in the world, isn't going to work. Medicare, for example, is a country wide/ provincially managed system but its different because most people will need medical help in their lives sometime and most people agree that treating illnesses and injuries is a good thing. The attitudes about childcare, are not like that.

The NDP is supposedly going to introduce their full election platform today, so maybe they will be specific about this $15/day idea.

Advance polls open today... everybody... GO VOTE!

[Suzie_Homemaker]

So private dayhome really is unregulated? In lot provinces, inc mind, private has fewer rule follow but still many rule apply. In Quebec, private dayhome no limit on children, no regs at all, no min requirement and parent actually better off with refund of cost of care? And provider better off because no cap on fees other than local market?

But for you, limit on spaces approved for, limit on what parent pay, government portion capped and total fees restricted.

How you financially manage on $7.40 from parent and $28 from government and no more than 6 ? With expenses for food and other standard supplies, earning about $27 per child before taxes.

Unless I misunderstand, it seem unregulated is better for provider and parent if parent find food carer?

Do you know if lot children in unregulated private dayhome?

I very surprize that unregulated really does mean unregulated. I not sure many people understood this before.

[kindertime]

Yes. Unregulated. I assume they follow rules like the Criminal Code and tax laws, etc. but there are no childcare rules for them to follow. That is what I meant when I said the gov't is undermining the system. If someone wants to have more than 6 of other people's children come in, they can. And there is no restriction that includes the provider's own children. Personally, I don't agree that this is better for parents. It might look better from a financial point of view, but what about those kids? Yikes!

Someone told me once that the maximum of 9 children under the age of 9yo, is actually from the fire code, and applies to all houses all the time. I don't know if that is true through. The Fire Code is part of the national Building Code and it isn't available online. I don't feel like paying $500 to read it.

If you are interested, I will give you links to the law and regulations we have to follow.

The Educational Childcare Act.
http://www2.publicationsduquebec.gou.../S4_1_1_A.html

The Educational Childcare Regulation (specific details about how to follow the rules in the Act.)
http://www2.publicationsduquebec.gou...S4_1_1R2_A.HTM

The Reduced Contribution Regulation (deals specifically with the $7.30 parents pay and the administration of the plan.)
http://www2.publicationsduquebec.gou...S4_1_1R1_A.HTM

[kindertime]

How you financially manage on $7.40 from parent and $28 from government and no more than 6 ? With expenses for food and other standard supplies, earning about $27 per child before taxes.

?? Where I am, it is the poorest region in Quebec, so housing costs are lower. My whole mortgage probably cost less than a garden shed in Toronto. But I have no idea how the ladies in the cities do it. In 2005, the subsidy was $17.50. And this is one of the main reasons we unionized. Your question is valid, and it is something we all struggle with every day. I haven't even started talking about the paperwork and the administration of the program and our relationships with the COs.

Oh and it's actually, $7.30 from parents and $27.85 from subsidy. And my take home income is way less than $27.

[kindertime]

Do you know if lot children in unregulated private dayhome?

I get all my numbers directly from the Minister of Families (the MFA) that runs the daycare system. They publish their numbers and also the inspection reports from the CPEs, the Daycares and fines imposed, etc. I love the internet. I also have lots of free time.

Edit: I'm sorry, Suzie, I actually misunderstood your question. I do not have numbers for children in unregulated home daycares. I was thinking about the regulated, unsubsidized spaces. Those are reported. I am not certain if there could be numbers for private home daycare because there is absolutely no oversight of them.

I made reference in an earlier post about serious incidents and complaints about private daycares. These are reported to the MFA, (gov't) and I will try to find out if I can get actual numbers.

In my small town, in the 10years I have been open, there have been several private home daycares come and go. 6-12 months, is maybe the average. Recently, however, it seems like there are more. And they're advertising more aggressively. Taking advantage of the tax credits available and they are people with early childhood backgrounds. Serious people, looking to make a career out of it. Competition. I am lucky to have a full house at the moment.

[kindertime]

For some reason I was wrtting the subsidy amount as $25.85 the whole way through even though I should have known better. I have corrected it but wanted to be clear.

[kindertime]

Copied and pasted directly from the NDP platform realeased today;

"Creating and sustaining one million quality childcare spaces at no more than $15 a day.

We will begin immediately to make funding available and work with all provinces and territories to recognize programs already underway, while ensuring Canadian families get the affordable childcare they deserve. After 30 years of successive, hollow promises by the Liberals and Conservatives, the NDP will deliver affordable, high-quality, accessible childcare for Canadian families. In Quebec, this means helping the provincial government maintain and improve the existing low-cost, quality childcare program."

http://www.ndp.ca/platform/childcare...gory=childcare