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  1. #21
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    dkdkdsvksdnkvnks
    Last edited by ottawamommy; 01-11-2016 at 07:44 PM.

  2. #22
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    I personally need to think you need to terminate today, before the 3 weeks is up.

    This family is NOT a good match for your home daycare (or pretty much any other). By going beyond the 3 weeks you forgo your right to keep the deposit. It doesn't matter what the parent verbally agrees t...if you terminate this family after 3 weeks you WILL LOSE your deposit because I can almost guarantee that they will take it as a personal insult and they will seek to make this hard on you. You both signed to the 3 weeks if you go past that they will be able to seek legal action against you.

    They are clearly not comfortable with letting their child cry it out. They will not change anytime soon. Good on them to seek sleep therapy. we can only hope that who ever they hire has the knowledge and common sense to get the parents to help train the child to sleep on their own (and not some wonky person that just further solidifies their belief in letting the child sleep poorly to forgo any tears).

    But at the end of the day this is not going to be a quick and easy process. it will take months and months of everyone slowly changing. You will NOT see progress on your end anytime soon.

  3. #23
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    It sounds like this is not a good fit.

    I have 5 of my own children and I am very AP- but a huge tenet of AP is getting across that ALL people's needs are important. And I agree- AP would be harder to implement in a Dayhome than in a parent/child diad.

    There are studies that do show issues with CIO particularly with breastfeeding- I know that cry it out has been done for years but there is substantial evidence that shows it to be harmful particularly for younger babies. IMO, it is the same as saying we didn't have car seats and did just fine--- well some of us didn't.... (with a much higher learning curve)

    The child will eventually learn to differentiate environments but that will take time- and it sounds like you are at your wits end.

  4. #24
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    This is why I get confused there are studies that cry it out is harmful and studies that so AP is harmful so I don't even know lol
    Last edited by ottawamommy; 01-11-2016 at 07:45 PM.

  5. #25
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    if today is the end of week 3 then i think today is the last day of care for this child at your daycare because leebee is right if you go over the 3 weeks you give back the deposit ...btw sleep training is a gradual process and things dont change over night and its a long routine heading up to sleep time ...time i just wouldnt have in my daycare trying to get all the kids down for nap

  6. #26
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    That is pretty much what I did just now. I just caught them in another lie that was causing the child not to sleep. I asked them not to nurse before nap/bed time start taking a bottle that way I can give her a bottle her. They were telling me that they did do this but a pick up told me they were going to the other moms work to the baby can nurse before nap time. Apparently in the sleep therapy work shop they need me to go and want them to come into my daycare after hours to se my set up so they can see if that is the problem. Also because I am ECE I don't have enough experience with babies lol and a 3 week transition program is to short. Overall they said we don't have to let her cry it out there are other options we don't need to change the child just the set up. Oh and apparently according to them it's normal for providers to wear the baby until they transition?! oh lord

  7. #27
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    How old is the child? The thing with sleep is the earlier you set the pattern of routine the easier. The older the child is before you set sleep expectations the harder it gets because they are so used to routine. Children like routine, they thrive in routine. Sudden changes to their key routine causes upset. For parents like this that can't stand to see their child upset they can so easily get stuck in the this cycle of trying to make change but giving up as soon as the child protests...which can quickly teach the child that they just have to protest change to stop it. And then, yes, a sleep therapist is needed. Not just for the child but for the parents to have someone to own up to in order to make the change happen.

    Children do adapt quickly, but they need consistent practice in order to adapt. If the parents waiver then it stalls the progress.

    no cry-it-out is not necessary to get even the poorest of sleepers to sleep. But consistency, patience and lots of time and energy is needed as is a parent(s) that is driven to make the change happen. Because without the parents wanting that change then the consistency, time, energy and desire is not there to get them through it. We are daycare providers really cannot expect parents to change their ways to suit us. We need to tell them what is needed or allow them to move elsewhere (or make them move elsewhere).

    No matter how much we disagree with their ways we have no say/control/input into what they do. If they are open to changing to make things easier for their child then awesome if they are not open to this then they are not a suitable family for us.

    We as care providers really have limited options in cases like this. We can terminate and or we can do what we can on our end to get the child settled. I do not believe it is our say to tell them to stop nursing to sleep. I frankly do not agree that it is best for the child. Maybe if they did it months ago before daycare was in view but right now the child needs things at home to be safe and comfortable. They come to us and adapt to our way of doing things then they get to retreat back home to the familiar comfort they have always known.

    It may drive us nuts and annoy us endlessly but home is home and daycare is daycare and all we can do is hope the child adapts.

    I have had numerous 'AP' families come through here. All of them drove me bonkers, all of them had incredibly poor sleep habits and completely sleep deprived children, all of them called all the shots and with so much as a whimper would change the full days plans. I do not agree with it I do not think it is best for the children or the families but it isn't my place to change that.

    All of the AP children adapted quickly with a bit of effort on my part. No things here were not the same as home but they were all happy, well adjusted, well rested children while in my care.

    I have my ECE and a degree in psychology I know and have studied the benefits of Attachment and attachment parenting. I fully support it...but I do not support sleep deprived children or children that have too much control in things they should have no control over. Sleep is so crucial for child and brain development.

    This family needs a different daycare. They would benefit from a nanny but they need their child in a place that can accept it for what it is.

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  9. #28
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    When you say consistency, patience and lots of time and energy is needed as is a parent(s) that is driven to make the change happen are you referring to the provider or the parents because those milestones should have been set long before they needed care?

  10. #29
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    How is nursing before nap time going to help child adapt to sleep at daycare?

  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by crayolamom View Post
    When you say consistency, patience and lots of time and energy is needed as is a parent(s) that is driven to make the change happen are you referring to the provider or the parents because those milestones should have been set long before they needed care?
    It was more of a general statement. This conversation kind of gives the tone that cry-it-out is the only way this child (and others) in this case can learn to sleep well on their own. I am noting that it isn't the case...cry-it-out would possibly be the fastest here but ultimately these parents CAN get their child to learn to sleep in an AP friendly way if they choose to.

    YES the child should have been taught how to sleep long ago. NO it should not have been left to the daycare provider to do. I have found though, that with these families this is often the case and the daycare provider is left to get the child to sleep. Often not in a manner that the parents would choose.

    Doesn't matter the parenting style...it is the parents job to ensure the child has good sleep patterns in place before they plop the child in group care. It is not fair to anyone when a child arrives with absolutely no ability to self sooth and to sleep on their own.

    This is where I can't help but feel that true AP parenting would differ from what we currently see referred to as 'AP'. If you are truly AP then you would be thinking ahead and setting the child up to succeed when they transfer to daycare. You would be doing all you could to ease that transition.

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