4 years old and in diapers

[Suzie_Homemaker]

Wow awesome does that usually work with the kids? how long on average does it take for you to train them?

Yes, key is parents on board I agree!

Normally 2 week be totally trained but after just 3 days, it tend be only odd accident not daily. And it normally if I not paying attention and not see wiggling around quick enough. I ask parent start getting child practice getting dressed and undressed on their bottom half from about 18 month so at least pulling down pants is already familiar.

Yes, it works. Only ever had one little girl who did really good here but have accident at home. Later found out that Grandma who picked up child end day and looked after until parent get home was putting her in diaper because she not on board.

I had couple over years we do a little sooner but only if they really ready, able communicate clearly and advanced children. I have little girl who will be 2 in June who we going to start early. She have such horrible diaper rashes (red raw and bleed) and she always trying take off diaper anyway so might as well go with it.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

And I not lift children on off toilet either. I just about 5' tall and maybe 90 lbs soaking wet so that not possible. Get stool. To be honest, if 4 year old not able wiggle on and off toilet, training is going be impossible. Even my 3 year olds can get on and off toilet without stool.

[bright sparks]

Normally 2 week be totally trained but after just 3 days, it tend be only odd accident not daily. And it normally if I not paying attention and not see wiggling around quick enough. I ask parent start getting child practice getting dressed and undressed on their bottom half from about 18 month so at least pulling down pants is already familiar.

Yes, it works. Only ever had one little girl who did really good here but have accident at home. Later found out that Grandma who picked up child end day and looked after until parent get home was putting her in diaper because she not on board.

I had couple over years we do a little sooner but only if they really ready, able communicate clearly and advanced children. I have little girl who will be 2 in June who we going to start early. She have such horrible diaper rashes (red raw and bleed) and she always trying take off diaper anyway so might as well go with it.

Same here. No diapers and no pull ups and my time frame is pretty much the same as this. Difference is I do not train based on age, I train based on meeting certain milestones. Around the 2 year mark, but I appreciate that not all 2 year olds are at the same developmental stage so to expect that as a standard is not in my practice.

[planet.caravan67]

I don't generally toilet train until the parents have spent a full week of consecutive days at home with the child to learn the process. This child may be developmentally delayed. If the child doesn't have the self help skills at age 4, then I wonder... They need to be able to pull own pants up&down and communicate that they need to go or have already gone. With heavier kids, I don't lift them on&off the toilet, I give them a stool and they do it by themselves. It doesn't sound like he's ready. I'd put the responsibility on the parents to do the training for now, and yes, he needs to use underwear, as pullups are diapers.

I have begun to suspect child may be, because he is quite immature for his age, the games he likes to play, how he speaks seem a lot more similar to what a 3 yr old would do. But then again that can be related to how he is treated at home as mom was home till now with child and just got back to work - really makes me wonder why she hasn't trained him yet. I suspect he may be very much babied.
I have decided parents will have responsibility of doing it and once they are successful at home I will help out as well.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

I have begun to suspect child may be, because he is quite immature for his age, the games he likes to play, how he speaks seem a lot more similar to what a 3 yr old would do. But then again that can be related to how he is treated at home as mom was home till now with child and just got back to work - really makes me wonder why she hasn't trained him yet. I suspect he may be very much babied.
I have decided parents will have responsibility of doing it and once they are successful at home I will help out as well.

This will make big difference. Normally my daycare children come to me at 12 month and stay until school time. I not had many come after 2 for sure. Even those babied at home are not babied her. My objective is to teach skill for independance. This maybe why 2nd birthday be magic time for training here? They know here that expectation are different and most child will reach for goal with positive encouragement. I not had many child developmentally delayed - I think only one. And that was short term place as Mom was having new baby and going on mat leave.

[bright sparks]

I had a very similar case last year. Boy was 4 but the size of a 6 year old and solid as a rock. Very heavy indeed. He did have developmental delays, but in addition to being babied and having everything done to him at home. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what the cause is, only that he needs to be toilet trained. This is just another case of having one way of doing things and trying to make a child conform doesn't always work and it is up to the caregivers in the child's life to make accommodations for that.

My first suggestion is to have a sit down with parents. They need to be 100% on board and promise to do things your way all the time. I'd even be inclined to have them sign an agreement and if they dont follow it then termination will be the consequence. I understand this is more work for you, but it is in the best interest of the child and the only way this will go in the right direction.

Secondly, you have to make it work. He is a big kid for sure, which I know first hand the limitations in training a late starter. Buy a potty chair, I can recommend one, that WILL accommodate a child of this size. Will he be 100% comfortable, probably not, but it will do the job. I think if the other kids are on a potty, he should to as it is what is modelled to him, not the toilet. Put him in underwear only so there are no pants to pull up and down or zippers etc. I know lots of people thing he should have this set of skills mastered first, but that is not the kind of situation you are working with. Once he has mastered peeing on the potty and gotten over his anxiety, then you can had some simply shorts with elastic waistband and work up to doing more. You have made the move to start potty training and you have to continue. Is he ready, physically for sure, mentally absolutely not from what you have said, but it does not mean he can not do it. Just gonna take a lot more work from you and parents.

Have zero expectation beyond sitting on the potty and reward him with lots of praise for that small step. This child obviously needs a ton of positive reinforcement and consistency all round. When he does pee, make a big deal and give him a sticker. I used to let the older boy I trained look through the stickers and choose one while he was on the potty and if he had a success eh could stick it on his sheet on the wall, if he did not he had to put it back in the bag. It's not enough to make them a promise, at this age they have to be able to get so close to it and realize that they will lose it should they not produce.

Stop asking him to go, and tell him to go. Not negotiable at this stage, there is gonna be a little bit of conditioning before independence comes. You need to be the one in charge of potty action. If he cries, ignore him but makes sure he stays on the potty, ideally until he calms down. I bring the potty into the play room so I can keep an eye on all the children and often the distraction of the other kids playing helps too. Like I said, zero expectations. First goal would be to simply have him sit on the potty without being upset. Once he stops being upset and anxious the pee will come.