Canadian Maternity leave law change

[bright sparks]

I feel like I'm having a dumb moment....but I don't see what the issue is. Infants spots are typically quite easy to fill no matter where you live. If a parent is wanting a centre but needing to use a hdc for the 6 months (12-18 mths of age) than those really aren't clients you'd want anyways. Whether the child is 12 or 23 months doesn't matter, an infant spot is an infant spot. It makes no difference to me.

This option just allows parents to stay home longer if they want. It was always odd to me that few centres took younger than 18 months so for those who prefer centres, and can afford 18 months off, this will work great for them. I don't see how it will affect home daycares?

It's a bit of a hasty generalization to say that infant spots are usually easy to fill regardless of location. I know a considerable amount of providers who would disagree... Although since Bill 10, less than 50% of the under population are now being catered to. It totally depends on saturation and location to be fair and accurate. I understand that the under two rule has been in place for some considerable time in some provinces, but Ontario is in an acute state as a result of childcare spots being cut so recently, so providers have just gone from being able to fill all five spots with infants, to being at less than 50% capacity as a result of Bill 10. In addition, Ontario has an all day everyday kindergarten program since a few years which has significantly impacted the ability to fill spots as a result of there being no demand for home daycare for 4 and 5 year olds and nearly 50% of 3year olds. I fear that in Ontario providers case adjusting the maternity leave to 18 months will further reduce the age range we will likely take the majority of the time.

I never said parents would use hdc for six months and move onto a centre, perhaps I wasn't very clear. What I meant is that many people wouldn't look into home daycare if centre care was their first choice, unless centre care wasn't available to them, which for the most part in ON it isn't to children under 18 months. Once investigating home daycares, some parents are suprised and may change their opinion and go with a home daycare as they learn of the benefits, without any intention of pulling them out for centre care in the future. As infant spots are already so limited in this province and completely unable to meet anywhere near the demand, I think that more parents will get on centre wait lists from birth and get their spots secured without entertaining the idea of hdc thus potentially resulting in a potential negative impact to our industry.

Yes these are my fears and maybe unwarranted, but I'm here, now, in this province experiencing it first hand and seeing things from the front line, knowing multiple providers closing and receiving countless infant enquiries weekly that I have to turn away, and reading something slanderous towards home daycares in Ontario on a regular basis which is already pushing parents to centre care and not home daycares. It's going to impact people differently as there are always various challenges specific to a multitude of reasons. I'm going to be prepared and plan for every eventuality. I think I'd be foolish not to have a back up plan.

[bright sparks]

I not worried either and lot of province have 2 under 2 rule and have for long time. Even with current 12 month leave, most return at 10 month or sooner for finances. Only few will be able afford 18 months on same money.

Again, depends on location, occupation, earnings. Not fair to assume that "most" go back early, because it just isn't the case. I would think those going back at age 10 mth go back because they went on mat leave early, not because they can't live on maternity benefits for an additional 2 months. Reality is that we will all have our own set of experiences but it won't speak to all. I'd assume the demographics of someone living in the GTA to be extremely different to those living in Atlantic Canada, so straight away thats contrary to what you are saying. Some people probably don't need to worry as much as others, but Ontario providers have already just taken a massive hit to their livelihood, not simply because of the ratio changes, but because it's only just happened and we are in a very acute stage of dealing with the ramifications of that.

[5 Little Monkeys]

It's a bit of a hasty generalization to say that infant spots are usually easy to fill regardless of location. I know a considerable amount of providers who would disagree... Although since Bill 10, less than 50% of the under population are now being catered to. It totally depends on saturation and location to be fair and accurate. I understand that the under two rule has been in place for some considerable time in some provinces, but Ontario is in an acute state as a result of childcare spots being cut so recently, so providers have just gone from being able to fill all five spots with infants, to being at less than 50% capacity as a result of Bill 10. In addition, Ontario has an all day everyday kindergarten program since a few years which has significantly impacted the ability to fill spots as a result of there being no demand for home daycare for 4 and 5 year olds and nearly 50% of 3year olds. I fear that in Ontario providers case adjusting the maternity leave to 18 months will further reduce the age range we will likely take the majority of the time.

I never said parents would use hdc for six months and move onto a centre, perhaps I wasn't very clear. What I meant is that many people wouldn't look into home daycare if centre care was their first choice, unless centre care wasn't available to them, which for the most part in ON it isn't to children under 18 months. Once investigating home daycares, some parents are suprised and may change their opinion and go with a home daycare as they learn of the benefits, without any intention of pulling them out for centre care in the future. As infant spots are already so limited in this province and completely unable to meet anywhere near the demand, I think that more parents will get on centre wait lists from birth and get their spots secured without entertaining the idea of hdc thus potentially resulting in a potential negative impact to our industry.

Yes these are my fears and maybe unwarranted, but I'm here, now, in this province experiencing it first hand and seeing things from the front line, knowing multiple providers closing and receiving countless infant enquiries weekly that I have to turn away, and reading something slanderous towards home daycares in Ontario on a regular basis which is already pushing parents to centre care and not home daycares. It's going to impact people differently as there are always various challenges specific to a multitude of reasons. I'm going to be prepared and plan for every eventuality. I think I'd be foolish not to have a back up plan.

Yes it's a generalization but you just proved my point....if ON providers used to be able to fill all 5 with infants than filling 2 should be no problem. It's the over 2 spots that can sometimes be harder to fill. However, mat leave being 18 months won't change this....at least not that I can see right now. Like I said, TYPICALLY the infant spaces are easiest to fill. I actually know no provider who would disagree with that statement.

Here in MB, more and more schools are going to full day kinder as well. However, many dc's don't take part time so that's a moot point to many of us. I expect children to stay with me for 3-4 years. Mat leave being 18 months doesn't affect that by much. (Of course there are exceptions to this 3-4 is the norm)

I do agree though that this may limit some parents from looking into hdc's. However, centres only have so many infant spaces as well, so IMO, there will always be a need for hdc's.

Change is hard, I totally get that but I think if ON providers can look at how other provinces deal with the ratios, they will realize it can be done!

I also really don't see that many families taking 18 months vs 12. Like Suzy, IME, most can't afford it

[Suzie_Homemaker]

Again, depends on location, occupation, earnings. Not fair to assume that "most" go back early, because it just isn't the case. I would think those going back at age 10 mth go back because they went on mat leave early, not because they can't live on maternity benefits for an additional 2 months. Reality is that we will all have our own set of experiences but it won't speak to all. I'd assume the demographics of someone living in the GTA to be extremely different to those living in Atlantic Canada, so straight away thats contrary to what you are saying. Some people probably don't need to worry as much as others, but Ontario providers have already just taken a massive hit to their livelihood, not simply because of the ratio changes, but because it's only just happened and we are in a very acute stage of dealing with the ramifications of that.

To clarify - you mean it unfair for me make generalisation and yet you doing same base on own location, market? There pro and con of all area. GTA has bigger pool potential client than small Atlantic region. Islander earn much lower income than GTA area and deal with lot illegal under table provider. As in any area, we each have adapt to own market demand. I sorry you feel that input from people outside GTA insignificant to you but Ontario provider not the poor cousin struggle with changes that rest of us not facing. Sure Bill 10 now in Ontario and only just happened, but you also had two year of knowing it coming and phase in of rules. If you not able to adapt to change in that time, then really, how long you need? Surely even before Bill 10 happened you would known that Ontario ratios much higher than rest country and could see that at some stage change coming.

I find sometimes you very condescending toward people outside your region. Very mistaken if you feel only Ontario provider's have issues. I will not comment on your post in future since it clear you only want select view. Maybe to avoid other carer comment being dismissed it be helpful to note in your post that you just want specific opinion not all view.

Good luck with your daycare. I'm sure in your provincial population of at least 6.054 million people you able find 5 client if islander provider with 146,283 in entire province able to do same.

[Daycare Momma]

Taking a smaller monthly cheque isn't going to benefit a lot of families. I don't see many taking advantage of that. As a provider I would prefer to take kids over 18 months so I think it would be nice to not have everyone looking for daycare for their 11-12 month old.

I completely agree. I don't see many taking advantage of this as I don't really see it as an advantage financially speaking. So only those who can afford it would take advantage and I don't know anyone who could do so. Although I too, would prefer to take kids at the 18 month mark as well.So it could possibly be a good thing if parents looking for care will not have children in the "under two" age for long. Could make it easier to fill our spots??? Not sure.

[bright sparks]

To clarify - you mean it unfair for me make generalisation and yet you doing same base on own location, market? There pro and con of all area. GTA has bigger pool potential client than small Atlantic region. Islander earn much lower income than GTA area and deal with lot illegal under table provider. As in any area, we each have adapt to own market demand. I sorry you feel that input from people outside GTA insignificant to you but Ontario provider not the poor cousin struggle with changes that rest of us not facing. Sure Bill 10 now in Ontario and only just happened, but you also had two year of knowing it coming and phase in of rules. If you not able to adapt to change in that time, then really, how long you need? Surely even before Bill 10 happened you would known that Ontario ratios much higher than rest country and could see that at some stage change coming.

I find sometimes you very condescending toward people outside your region. Very mistaken if you feel only Ontario provider's have issues. I will not comment on your post in future since it clear you only want select view. Maybe to avoid other carer comment being dismissed it be helpful to note in your post that you just want specific opinion not all view.

Good luck with your daycare. I'm sure in your provincial population of at least 6.054 million people you able find 5 client if islander provider with 146,283 in entire province able to do same.

Really...I did acknowledge that I was likely worrying unnecessarily but as we, Ontario providers are in acute stages of the financial impact, that is why I worry. I certainly didn't intend on coming across condescending, and I have only spoken to what I know as an Ontario provider, not assumed to know anything about other areas, other than what I know generally about the economy variances. I do not feel I am condescending to providers outside my area, I was asking for perspective from others which is what I got, I was in turn responding to comments with my own, not negating anyone which I feel you have just done to me...I also have at no point singled out Ontario providers as the only ones dealing with any type of issues. I have however highlighted that Ontario providers are dealing with the acute stages of change in this province, which at this time nobody else is going through and the challenges we are facing which may be different than other providers elsewhere. It wasn't a who has it harder than others, it's not a competition, but I purely vented based on my own experiences and observations in the market I am part of. It is one thing to have never known any other way versus a big change like this...and regardless, I only sought to point this out to highlight the shrinking age gap available to care for...yes other provinces already adhere to these ratios which I have never denied, simply that some of us are dealing with the sudden financial hardship which yes as much as possible we tried to prepare for, but once again as I said still being in the acute stages at times leaves a bitter taste in ones mouth. I also have not assumed to speak for any other provider in the province, only given the fact that I was part of an association of over 80 daycare providers in another region and having been involved to an extent with the Bill 10 changes, I made a judgement of my area not of anyone else's, based on my experience as a provider over a wider demographic over my different locations that is all, not a sweeping statement that speaks to all. You say I am condescending, I apologize as that was certainly never my intention, yet you make personal comments to me that are harsh because I spoke out on my disagreance. I wasn't dismissing others comments, just responding to some specifics that people noted which I either don't agree with or am experiencing differently. The kindergarten program adds to the issue with filling spots, so maybe that is an additional factor as to why spots are not filling.

I'm sure everyone will be effected differently, it isn't cut and try as there are so many differences in circumstances and hopefully I worry for nothing. Certainly didn't set out to condescend anyone so I apologize to all who feel that I did. I appreciate all comments regardless of whether I agree or not, I don't want select view Suzy, would you prefer that if I didn't agree with something I keep my opinion to myself? That is the impression I am getting from you, that I should only respond to those who agree with me, rather than have a response to something that I may not be inline with? It seems that my disagreance with posters comments has been interpreted by you to be me not wanting those views. I assure you that is not the case, I clearly should have held off venting so I could articulate myself better rather than typing my words when I was initially in a panic from the news article.

[bright sparks]

Yes it's a generalization but you just proved my point....if ON providers used to be able to fill all 5 with infants than filling 2 should be no problem. It's the over 2 spots that can sometimes be harder to fill. However, mat leave being 18 months won't change this....at least not that I can see right now. Like I said, TYPICALLY the infant spaces are easiest to fill. I actually know no provider who would disagree with that statement.

Here in MB, more and more schools are going to full day kinder as well. However, many dc's don't take part time so that's a moot point to many of us. I expect children to stay with me for 3-4 years. Mat leave being 18 months doesn't affect that by much. (Of course there are exceptions to this 3-4 is the norm)

I do agree though that this may limit some parents from looking into hdc's. However, centres only have so many infant spaces as well, so IMO, there will always be a need for hdc's.

Change is hard, I totally get that but I think if ON providers can look at how other provinces deal with the ratios, they will realize it can be done!

I also really don't see that many families taking 18 months vs 12. Like Suzy, IME, most can't afford it

I have no doubt that Ontario providers will adapt, we will have to. I think there is a bitter taste in a lot of our mouths as this came on the tail of the hdc deaths and slanderous comments in the media all the time. This was supposed to be a change to increase safety of children but it does nothing to that effect. Just restricts our income making the adjustment significant enough for some that they are in hardship. If starting out with those restrictions already in place, you go in with a different mindset and approach for sure. I doubt there will be any issue filling infant spots for the foreseeable future but likely full capacity with waitlists will be a thing of the past and we will just have to deal with it. I hope you didn't find me condescending, I apologize as my disagreance was never meant to be as such, just not my experience so I commented as such. I only sought to vent on my initial concerns that there is a closing gap of potential children to care for and I worry that this will not help. Seems that I'm probably worrying for nothing given the consensus of peoples responses as not being to concerned. I guess given that I haven't had more than a handful of enquiries for over the age of two for a few years, that is likely fuelling my increasing worried state.

[MommaL]

I agree that infant spots tend to be easier to fill and there will always be a need and want for home daycare (especially since it's nearly impossible to get into a centre in my area).

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong, but if most parents do take advantage of the 18-month leave, won't it mean that the children utilizing our infant spots will be in that spot for less time than they are now, thus opening up the spot more quickly for another infant? That's not a bad thing.

[bright sparks]

I agree that infant spots tend to be easier to fill and there will always be a need and want for home daycare (especially since it's nearly impossible to get into a centre in my area).

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong, but if most parents do take advantage of the 18-month leave, won't it mean that the children utilizing our infant spots will be in that spot for less time than they are now, thus opening up the spot more quickly for another infant? That's not a bad thing.

I never looked at it like that...I guess I was so consumed with worry of how this would effect things that I didn't think about it like that. Could essentially help fill those over two spots given the child would move out of that age group in a very short time. Thanks for pointing that out!

[5 Little Monkeys]

I have no doubt that Ontario providers will adapt, we will have to. I think there is a bitter taste in a lot of our mouths as this came on the tail of the hdc deaths and slanderous comments in the media all the time. This was supposed to be a change to increase safety of children but it does nothing to that effect. Just restricts our income making the adjustment significant enough for some that they are in hardship. If starting out with those restrictions already in place, you go in with a different mindset and approach for sure. I doubt there will be any issue filling infant spots for the foreseeable future but likely full capacity with waitlists will be a thing of the past and we will just have to deal with it. I hope you didn't find me condescending, I apologize as my disagreance was never meant to be as such, just not my experience so I commented as such. I only sought to vent on my initial concerns that there is a closing gap of potential children to care for and I worry that this will not help. Seems that I'm probably worrying for nothing given the consensus of peoples responses as not being to concerned. I guess given that I haven't had more than a handful of enquiries for over the age of two for a few years, that is likely fuelling my increasing worried state.

No worries. I understand that tone can get lost over text. I always fear my responses will come across wrong too lol. It's never my intent to offend or piss off anyone. Like you, I just state my opinion/thoughts.

Over the age of 2 can definitely be harder to fill but once you have a full roster, it's usually okay. Kids age out, infants move into toddler spaces and we start infants again. There are for sure dry times, especially when toddlers leave and we don't have infant space but at the most, it should hopefully only be a year, as than an infant spot opens again. If spaces are open too long, I'd honestly re-evaluate my program as quality dc is always needed. My area is over saturated with hdc's but I wouldn't say it's over saturated with quality ones. I do think this is the case in a lot of areas. There are more and more hdc horror stories because so many think it's an easy way to stay home and make money. We all know that's grossly untrue!!

I think you will be fine! but like you said, a backup plan is always a smart idea!

(I have 1, maybe 2 spaces opening this Fall so hopefully they're easy to fill and I'm not eating my own words lol. They can be infants though so I'm not too worried....altho, I don't really want infants haha)