Running home daycare away from home

[Onthefarm]

hey guys! I would love some insight on this.

I have been in the home daycare field for quite a while now. I run unlicensed. I do everything by the books, have always had success and it has been a positive experience.

I am considering moving my daycare to a different location. To a community hall which is zoned properly and ready to go. I will be paying rent but I am excited for the freedom back in my home. It would be insured of course.

Anyway, my question is,
does anyone know if an "unlicensed home daycare" can run out of a place that isn't a home? I'm having a heck of a time trying to figure this out on the government websites.

I live in Ontario.
I do know of an unlicensed daycare that runs out of a church. This gives me hope.
Anyway, any help is greatly appreciated!!!!

[BlueRose]

In Ontario if you move your daycare out of your home, you are NO longer a home daycare, but a daycare CENTRE. You need to do major renovations (X # of kids size toilets/sinks, windows need to be at least X big etc.). You need to get a license form the Ministry (this can take a few months to over a year to get). Its a lot of work and money. I have had friends look into this. They found that it just wasn't worth it.

As for your friend running out of a church - I am not sure if churches have special exemptions or not.

I would contact the MOE to get more information.

[Onthefarm]

Thank you, very interesting!

That particular unlicensed daycare was running from a private home (not the daycare owner's home, but on a friend's rural property) and then moved to the church where they continue to run unlicensed.
However, they are a not-for-profit organization that runs a daycare, so I'm wondering if that is the loophole.

I don't know them well enough to contact them and ask, but I suppose it is a possibility! lol.
I have asked my lawyer to look into it for me also, I'll update - if you're interested!!

[Peacefulbird]

Hi. Here you have some options

1. Continue as a homedaycare "basic set up in your home" and rent a space at the c. Centre (ex. Set Gross motor activities). As far as it has insurance and you don't go over your ratio (no more than 5 kids and only two under two's ) you'll be ok in case the moe is called. Also a community hall must also have liability coverage (usually they do).

2. Being considered a community hall "public area", you have also the advantage of organizing play dates with other caregivers (just check the max. Cap.). To my knowledge you can use it only for certain hrs. Not the whole day (but anyways you won't spend the whole day in, I'm sure you'll be out during nice weather). So far I'm certain doing it this way you're not breaking any rules.

3. The complication comes if the kids will need to nap there (many community centres aren't set for that) unless you'Re planning to set that too. You must make sure you have only 5 kids. Other ways you'll fall into an illegal situation even if it is in a community hall.

4. According to my accountant, once you leave your home obviously is not considered anymore "homedaycare" and normal in-house business tax deductions doesn't apply. (Ex. Utilities, the use of certain percentage of space in your home, etc) but I'm sure you will be able to deduct 100% of the c.hall rent as business expense. Ask and confirm with an accountant if your situation could potentially fall under other category.

5. Only if you plan is to increase ratio ex. 6 kids (in your case "unlicensed") it would be considered to start the process to open a centre (much more complicated, costly, renovations to comply with childcare centre environment regulations and you need to be an ece or contract a director with an ece).

6. I have a friend who have done her homedaycare in a rented full apartment just for her daycare first floor and a backyard. The ministry didn't have any objection as far as she was with in her ratio.

7. Another friend who currently does it in a townhouse also just for her daycare and no problems so far. She is within ratios and claims all her bills an expenses through that location. So her own house doesn't have any tax deduction exception.

8. In regards of your comment as considered "loophole" because a non-for-profit organization. I think at this point there aren't any loopholes it's either considered "illegal or legal", if she is within her ratio she is fine if she is over ratios then it is illegal un less they have a special permit to offer skill based services (with no more than 6 hrs. Or less I think, and no infants or toddlers I think the age allowed for that was 4 yo and up then changed to 6 and up and currently being negotied to 4 yo and up).

For profit and non for profit still have to follow the same regulations.

Some programs currently community non-for-profit run programs to support their communities ex. Dance, computer, sports etc. Activities but the permits are no more than 3 hrs or max 4hrs.

I hope this inf. Helps. But you can also call the ministry of education.

[Onthefarm]

this was incredibly helpful. thank you sooo much for your information and insight. seriously!!!

[Suzie_Homemaker]

Not for profit and for profit day homes are both licensed. When you move your day care out of your primary residence you no longer qualify as a home based day care and therefore have to meet the licensing requirements and business requirements for a day care center. This will include any qualifications your province requires from a licensee.

[Onthefarm]

hello!
I thought it was worth updating - since this information was so helpful to me - it is perfectly legal to run an unlicensed daycare outside of your home, provided you are following the same number rules as a home based unlicensed daycare. You just need to be insured and only running from one location. No licensing required.

I spoke with both a lawyer and the ministry of education

[Onthefarm]

I spoke with the ministry of education and you are correct! Thanks so much.

[Lee-Bee]

One thing I will add just on the off chance it applies. You need to be the ONLY home daycare running under that roof.

I knew of a private school that had rented out space in their building to 2 home daycares. Each had 5 kids, different floors of the building, run completely separate of each other. One day the inspectors showed up, called all the parents and shut them down then and there. One was allowed to continue but you CANNOT have 2 home daycares under one roof.

Just be mindful of what else is running in the building.

[Onthefarm]

One thing I will add just on the off chance it applies. You need to be the ONLY home daycare running under that roof.

I knew of a private school that had rented out space in their building to 2 home daycares. Each had 5 kids, different floors of the building, run completely separate of each other. One day the inspectors showed up, called all the parents and shut them down then and there. One was allowed to continue but you CANNOT have 2 home daycares under one roof.

Just be mindful of what else is running in the building.

oh yes good point!!
I actually used to work for a private school who also had an unlicensed daycare. We had to make sure that the daycare group was completely separate from the kids ages 4+ at all times. And had to keep the same 5 kid minimum, of course. They take that very seriously!!

I have the community hall to myself, luckily. I was told by the MOE that if I wanted to add more kids to my program on certain days, the one way that is allowed, is to have a playgroup that includes parents. So that the kids can participate in our activities (with their parents), but aren't in my sole care.