Proposed changes to the DNA in Ontario

I attened a meeting through CCPRN last night about the proposed changed to the DNA in Ontario. There are several different proposals and we do not yet know which one the Minister of Education will go with. One of these proposals (not surprisingly put forth by an agency) is that private daycare providers be allowed a maximum of 4 children including our own, but agency providers could have 7 (only 3 of which can be under 4 though). The Minister of Education, Liz Sandals, has made it clear that she intends to remove incentives to remain private and try to have all of us licensed in some way (we do not know yet if it will be working through an agency or through some new type of licensing or accrediation program). The CCPRN has proposed having caregivers go through an accreditation process instead which would ensure that we have things like CPR, police checks, safe homes, and professional development/training. The main message at the meeting was that we need to have our voices heard! We need to write letters to the Minister of Education and the ADM of Education (I will post email addressed once CCPRN sends it out) and have our parents write letters as well. In those letters we need to give concrete examples of the quality programming that we provide that engages brain development in young children (apparently this is the new buzz word for the govt...LOL). Our daycare parents can write letters outlining why they chose a home daycare provider over centre based care and also provide examples of the quality programming their child recieves in his/her private home daycare and the fact that their provider has CPR, police checks, safe and secure home, etc. They provided us with a hand-out at the meeting with some specific items they would like us to include in our letters...I hope that is will be posted on their website or emailed out so I can provide all of the list to you (it's a lot to type!). If we all band together and make our voices heard it is actually highly likely that we can make a change for the better! Please share this with everyone you know! I will post more information when I get it and please check CCPRN website for further information as well. Start asking parents if they can write letters, start writing one yourself, share with other providers. 80% of children are cared for in home daycares...we are the majority so we need to make our voices heard!

Is there anyway you could scan and upload the documents you were provided with? That way you wouldn't need to type anything for us to read. Thank you so much for posting this, I'll be sure to write a letter or two.

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Originally Posted by sunnydays

I attened a meeting through CCPRN last night about the proposed changed to the DNA in Ontario. There are several different proposals and we do not yet know which one the Minister of Education will go with. One of these proposals (not surprisingly put forth by an agency) is that private daycare providers be allowed a maximum of 4 children including our own, but agency providers could have 7 (only 3 of which can be under 4 though). The Minister of Education, Liz Sandals, has made it clear that she intends to remove incentives to remain private and try to have all of us licensed in some way (we do not know yet if it will be working through an agency or through some new type of licensing or accrediation program). The CCPRN has proposed having caregivers go through an accreditation process instead which would ensure that we have things like CPR, police checks, safe homes, and professional development/training. The main message at the meeting was that we need to have our voices heard! We need to write letters to the Minister of Education and the ADM of Education (I will post email addressed once CCPRN sends it out) and have our parents write letters as well. In those letters we need to give concrete examples of the quality programming that we provide that engages brain development in young children (apparently this is the new buzz word for the govt...LOL). Our daycare parents can write letters outlining why they chose a home daycare provider over centre based care and also provide examples of the quality programming their child recieves in his/her private home daycare and the fact that their provider has CPR, police checks, safe and secure home, etc. They provided us with a hand-out at the meeting with some specific items they would like us to include in our letters...I hope that is will be posted on their website or emailed out so I can provide all of the list to you (it's a lot to type!). If we all band together and make our voices heard it is actually highly likely that we can make a change for the better! Please share this with everyone you know! I will post more information when I get it and please check CCPRN website for further information as well. Start asking parents if they can write letters, start writing one yourself, share with other providers. 80% of children are cared for in home daycares...we are the majority so we need to make our voices heard!

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Honestly, I don't think it's gonna matter. I have always said it is just a matter of time until the agencies get their claws into the powers-that-be and make us all regulated in some respect. I am not the sort of person to just roll over and not at least try to instrument change but in this regard I think it's likely a lost cause. One, agencies and lobbyist are pressuring government with statistics on child mortality rates in daycare. Yes, they are flawed stats (because a child is twice as likely to die in parental care than ANY type of daycare) but they don't see that. Two, agencies are BUSINESSES and they want more providers under their wings so they can make more money. And three, I don't think parents care. I think parents care what TYPE of care they have (centre versus home) but honestly, I think 90% of parents, if they were really honest, would rather have some sort of government institution telling their provider what to do.

I vehemently disagree with forcing all home daycare to be licensed. I think it's a load of crap. But it is what it is and it's been a long time in the works. I think WE, the private home daycare providers, are the only ones who are 100% against it. And there aren't enough of us, nor do we merit or warrant any sort of sway because we are looked upon as a NON-entity. It's sad, but it's true.

Judy I have to agree with you. We will be licensed in some way in the very near future so instead of trying to get out of it we need to lobby for what sort of licensing model we want to see. This would be a good time for those in other provinces to share again what models are used in their provinces.

Actually if the agencies increase the number to 7 but keep the low ratio for preschoolers then it will mean they are over half full with school age kids and parents of infants have a hard enough time now with too many "big kids" in the home so they will flock to the smaller private homes. then because we provide a luxury of small ratio the rates can rise to at least what the parent would pay the agency plus a small ratio per diem and we just might come out ahead while doing less work - less kids.

I do see though that this only works for those whose own children are in school or older and not those looking to stay home with their own toddlers.

Having someone come to your house once a month does not make a caregiver more able to handle a larger amount of children so that argument is totally misguided.

If we are licensed we will also qualify for fee top ups and operating grants from the province so maybe there is merit. We just need to lobby for what kind of licensing we want. It will for sure weed out the providers that are only doing it temporarily, or not really committed due to the hassles of getting licensed and that too is good for us.

It is just the whole ratio/age mix that is the problem and for that we need to gather info from across the country and compare them to prove what can be done instead of letting them just pull numbers from a magic hat.

BTW, I think the changes are a load of crap and being pushed on home daycare providers for the sole pursuit of MONEY. Agencies just want us to all work for them so they can make more MONEY. Why else would you propose a change to have only 4 kids allowed in UNlicensed care (as opposed to the current 5 allowed) but suddenly be allowed 5 if you are with an agency? It doesn't change anything - the kids are STILL being cared for by ONE provider in a HOME. It's ALLLLL about money and what ticks me off is that they put it forth as if it is about the concerns for the children. BULLCRAP.

And all that's gonna happen in the end IF these changes go through is that daycare is gonna cost more. Sorry, but if I have to downsize by one kid I AM passing along that loss in income to the other 4 parents still in care.

It's gonna create a daycare shortage because lots of providers won't be able to meet the list of requirements (I can find the list. It's HUGE). And it is also gonna force a lot of providers out of business because they can not afford an income hit of one kid per year - $10,000. So, in the end it will create a shortage of daycare spaces and shortages mean increased fees.

The end result will be akin to tossing a sunfish into a pool of piranhas. It will be a damned free-for all with the experiences providers still in the game, charging WAY more for less work. And the parents will be the ones paying the (literal) price for it.

Lee Dunster from Ottawa was crossing the country talking to providers and authorities while writing a book on home daycare - forgetting the name of the book right now but it is a still a great getting started read for home daycare.

She spoke at a home daycare conference here in Ottawa as the key note speaker back in 2001-2002 forget exact date - and I still remember a few of the things she said. One that comes to mind is in talking to someone from BC the authority was lamenting that too many "home" daycares were looking too much like institutional care and converting garages for their daycare and he was upset because he wanted them to have the homey feel - her comment was well when you instituted the rule that all rooms the child would be in had to have sprinklers in the ceiling of every room child went into that were connected to the smoke alarm system - well how can you expect providers to want water damage to their entire home every time they burn a piece of toast or broil bacon and the smoke alarm goes off - hence daycare goes out of the house to the garage.

Even then the ratios and number of children per home was being discussed by all levels of government so this is now over 10 years ago the conference was.

I see so many of the different daycare formats from the US as I belong to several yahoo chat groups and ratios, non-sensical rules etc. are often up for discussion. I would love to see a forum/meeting/working group that looks at what is happening in other places and compares them. Yes the ELECT report looked at childcare in a few countries but it picked the ones it wanted for it's document and didn't look at specifics for even our closest neighbours. We could use that information to lobby for what we want to see as a best case scenario.

how long do you think it would take if this passes... would it be a quick process it can't be a process that is quick to get all providers licensed...

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Originally Posted by andreah1032

how long do you think it would take if this passes... would it be a quick process it can't be a process that is quick to get all providers licensed...

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Well, they have been talking about it for about 8 years now so who the heck knows. You know the government....things move slow as molasses.

Hey Ladies,

I know I am not in ON; but where I live (in the prairies) We are allowed to have up to 8 including our own this is with schoolagers, toddlers and infants. (the number changes with how your age group mixes)

Our province is incredibly lax about how they deal with over ratio providers...so much so that when you get reported, no one worries about it.... (I have one lady in my area with 12+ kids in her care) and to top it off if they can't catch you over ratio all they can do is keep coming. I used to stress thinking that I'd be in big trouble when they came to my door (I got a lot of false reporting before) when in reality all they so is count kids and go if nothing is amiss.

Though, I am extremely grateful that our province does not do agency care, and looks at private dayhomes as a credible option for care. Many lic. daycares/providers keep a list of private dayhomes recommending them if they are full...

It seems that the problems come from other private dayhomes...some playgerize ads, attack moms for taking the child to another home...write attack ads for providers they don't like...... Its sad.

I really hope that these changes don't suck as much as I think they will....

I agree with Judy. If I have to go from 5 to 4 children, my rates will simply go up to compensate. It won't bother me to have less work LOL. Each family will pay 25% of my weekly fee instead of 20%.