Report a Daycare Home?

My girlfriend was visiting yesterday from another city and she has a 5 year old son. She was telling me about her sons provider and how great she is. Her husband was with us and said she always has a ton of kids there. I asked how many does she have, and they couldnt even tell me (like 9 or more). When I said no, thats not legal (she runs out of her home), they said its not like that, because her 12 yo daughter helps out sometimes. LMAO!!
I explained the 'laws' here in Ontario about not having more than 5 children per RESIDENCE, not care provider, and the laws about age limits, 1 under 1, 2 under 2 etc.
I didnt want to worry them and said oh well, whatever works for you, but as long as you know that she could be shut down at any time and fined $$ if somebody rats her out. I am still not convinced I will not report her myself....this just sounds ridiculous!!
Can somebody clarify, under what circumstances could you have more than 5 kids (not including your own). Do you need to be licensed? And this is a huge process is it not? What do you ladies think??

You're in Ontario. Yes, that provider is not operating legally. She is allowed FIVE children PLUS her own PER PRIMARY RESIDENCE. The number of caregivers does NOT matter. I don't care if you have 10 adults - you can only have FIVE Kids in care.

I would report her. I have in the past.

The reason I would report her is that when you see these news stories of atrocities in HOME daycare they are ALWAYS with these warehousers who have FAR too many kids in care. It is rarely, if ever, the providers operating legally. But, the media doesn't spin it that way - they just say HOME daycare is bad etc etc. And well, that makes ME look bad and hurts MY home daycare business.

Report her. I would - in a heartbeat.

Shame on your girlfriend for not having more of a vested interest in the very place she leaves her child every day.

By Ontario Law:
You may have 5 children not including your own under the age of 10. If there are children that she cares for over the age of 10, they are NOT included in numbers. You are right about having only the 5 children not including your own in ONE residence.

Through an agency the rules change. You're still only allowed the 5 children not including your own under the age of 10, BUT it goes for ages. 1 under the age of 1, 2 under the age of 2, and so on. I think there's some more rules, but I'm not with an agency, so I can't say for certain!

I would ask your gf how many children are the providers own, and ask their ages. Then figure out the math before jumping to conclusions!

If the math doesn't sort out, I personally would report it.

Nine might seem like a lot but I am mom to 4 kids so add 5 daycare kids and that equals 9. Back when my own were younger I also had two 11 year olds who were siblings of kids in care so a group of 11 of us was the summer norm. Also back then it was not considered wrong for my own kids to have a friend over to play - ideally outside for a short period of time so at pick up time it was common to see the entire street in the vicinity of my house - usually it was a hockey game on the road but they did it near my house cause I was the adult home. I just wasn't responsible for anyone my son was out there playing with but did dole out the first aid and discipline as needed.

But they have finally clarified the rules based on new tragedies so this would never be acceptable now. We are talking 10-15 years ago here.

Now it is 5 kids only. Unless she is with an agency the age mix doesn't matter regardless of how old her own kids are.

Will you be able to report it and have something happen without your friend knowing it came from you. Since you just warned them it could be touchy for the friendship but the lives of the children should be more important than anything. Could you talk some more to your friend and maybe even have her bring it up with the caregiver to make her aware of the rules and it would also give her a heads up to be looking for alternate care if the complaint is filed. She should be the one moving her child and filing the complaint but if you ask her to and she won't you will have to tell her that for the integrity of the profession you don't have a choice. I agree with what was written that it is the bad image it gives us all when there is an issue in an illegal daycare.

Sorry Judy but this comment really got me pretty fired up. I think that before anyone reports anyone they should get there facts 100%. She maybe caring for 5 kids and may have 3 or 4 kids of her own. My little one whet to an at home daycare where this was the case and she was in a very fun, loving, safe environment. I wouln't have had it any other way! PERIOD!

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Originally Posted by Judy Trickett

You're in Ontario. Yes, that provider is not operating legally. She is allowed FIVE children PLUS her own PER PRIMARY RESIDENCE. The number of caregivers does NOT matter. I don't care if you have 10 adults - you can only have FIVE Kids in care.

I would report her. I have in the past.

The reason I would report her is that when you see these news stories of atrocities in HOME daycare they are ALWAYS with these warehousers who have FAR too many kids in care. It is rarely, if ever, the providers operating legally. But, the media doesn't spin it that way - they just say HOME daycare is bad etc etc. And well, that makes ME look bad and hurts MY home daycare business.

Report her. I would - in a heartbeat.

Shame on your girlfriend for not having more of a vested interest in the very place she leaves her child every day.

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Just to clarify, if you're with an agency, your own kids under 10 are included in the 5 and ages matter. Privately, ages don't matter but you can only have 5 plus your own kids. As someone else said, I would get the facts straight first as it sounds like your friends don't even know the number of kids...maybe it seems like more than it is to them because they only have one. It could be very damaging to the daycare provider's reputation if you have her investigated for nothing.

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Originally Posted by Skysue

Sorry Judy but this comment really got me pretty fired up. I think that before anyone reports anyone they should get there facts 100%. She maybe caring for 5 kids and may have 3 or 4 kids of her own. My little one whet to an at home daycare where this was the case and she was in a very fun, loving, safe environment. I wouln't have had it any other way! PERIOD!

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Seriously. Good Lord. I'm pretty sure the OP has enough sense (because she seems quite a sensible, smart person to me given her past posts) to find out from her friend how many kids the provider has of her OWN. And I am also sure that knowing how many kids of their own a provider has would be something this girlfriend would know.

I think everyone else here understood that in my post I was referring to kids in CARE. And sorry, but if you are over the limit then you are operating ILLEGALLY and also sorry, but if a parent knows this then THEY are just as much at fault as the daycare provider.

Anyone who knows me also knows I am VERY pro-provider. So to make the assumption that I would recommend anyone just report their collegues without justification is absurd.

I AM pro-provider - but for those providers who are operating LEGALLY and who are treating the kids right.

Judy,


I know you are well respected on this board and I truly love your blog. It just got me fired up becuase there wasn't enough info in the OP backing up how many of the providers own kids were hers only that a 12 year old daughter helps out! I am someone who feels that its important to get all facts in place before making any calls on someone! As it's someones life and job on the line. Even if it checked out to be legit thats an awful call to make.

P.S sorry I can't spell to save my life!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Judy Trickett

Seriously. Good Lord. I'm pretty sure the OP has enough sense (because she seems quite a sensible, smart person to me given her past posts) to find out from her friend how many kids the provider has of her OWN. And I am also sure that knowing how many kids of their own a provider has would be something this girlfriend would know.

I think everyone else here understood that in my post I was referring to kids in CARE. And sorry, but if you are over the limit then you are operating ILLEGALLY and also sorry, but if a parent knows this then THEY are just as much at fault as the daycare provider.

Anyone who knows me also knows I am VERY pro-provider. So to make the assumption that I would recommend anyone just report their collegues without justification is absurd.

I AM pro-provider - but for those providers who are operating LEGALLY and who are treating the kids right.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skysue

Judy,


I know you are well respected on this board and I truly love your blog. It just got me fired up becuase there wasn't enough info in the OP backing up how many of the providers own kids were hers only that a 12 year old daughter helps out! I am someone who feels that its important to get all facts in place before making any calls on someone! As it's someones life and job on the line. Even if it checked out to be legit thats an awful call to make.

P.S sorry I can't spell to save my life!

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If you go back and read all of the home daycare deaths in the last five years (this is something I spend a lot of time on - I want to know HOW and WHY kids die or are seriously harmed in daycare. Because learning WHY helps me to prevent myself and other providers from ever have that happening in their daycares) you will notice a trend. And that trend is that in nearly all the cases the daycare provider was either not operating within numbers or in breach of some sort of state or provincial mandate. The fact are the facts.

Every time a child dies in care it hurts everyone - the family, the child and every single home daycare provider who is doing it RIGHT. I don't want kids dying in daycare and I don't want to pay the price professionally for those who are operating illegally.

I understand your passion. As a parent myself I understand. But, once you have been a daycare provider for years and years your attitude will likely change. You will look around and be utterly appalled at some of the stuff that happens in home daycare across North America.

I think you are correct and it is ALWAYS imperative to do your research first, and I stated that in my previous post. But, as is the case with anything, even IF the ministry visited you, if you are doing nothing wrong then you really have nothing to fear. Even though I would never maliciously call the ministry on a provider I would far rather a parent or provider call the ministry if there is serious concern and find it was not warranted rather than to NOT have called and then see a news story on a child who died in her care.

Kids die in daycare. It's a fact. Nobody wants to talk about it but it's undeniable true and we, as professionals have a duty to prevent that from happening whenever, and wherever possible.

By the way, as to your remark about being "respected'. I would hope that NO ONE would ever take my word over someone else's. And I genuinely mean that. It is my only hope to help providers become better at their jobs and assist them whenever possible. Everyone should have a voice and be heard.

I know this can be a passionate topic. It is a tragedy when kids suffer and die.
Please remain respectful