Termination by Provider - am I still required to pay?

Hello - this message is really for all the providers out there. My son was recently registered with a dayhome agency. He is special needs and after a few weeks of care, I began to notice several behavioral issues that were emerging at home. Try as I might, his behavior began to escalate. It came to the point where I was afraid the his behaviors would spill over into the dayhome (my son was having nightmares, started banging his head on the wall, was stamping his feet and yelling and screaming at me when he didn't get his own way, this would progress to slamming doors and locking himself in the bathroom or his room). The provider was aware of my son's issues (she had babysat him privately for over a year before she came a licensed provider). I approached her with my concerns only to have her tell me that there was no problem in the dayhome and that this must be a home issue. When my son's behavior continued to escalate at home (he now started throwing things and biting me when in a tantrum), I approached the provider again; she refused to work with me in trying several strategies to help calm my son (he has severe sensory issues and she had implemented many changes in her home plus taking on several more children - I felt that it was all too much for him and that he was overwhelmed). After two frustrating mornings of not being able to convince her that if this escalation continued, that the other children may be placed at risk, I told her that I would be giving my notice. I left for work, intending to speak with her that evening about the termination. My contract states that I must provide 2 weeks of written notice but I know that she was struggling financially. I wanted to sit down with her and discuss how we would go forward, I didn't want to give only two weeks if she really needed the full month's fees but I was also not going to continue care to the end of the month without some definite strategies in place to help my son cope. Anyway, when I arrived that afternoon to pick my son up, she informed me that she was no longer going to provide care. She literally stuffed his belongings in my arm and said that she no longer wanted him in her home (this was in front of my son). Stunned, I asked if she was required to provide notice, she replied yes but that she was not going to. I took my son and left. Here is the problem. The dayhome agency is now billing me for two weeks care in lieu of notice. My provider's take is that she didn't want my son and that by not disagreeing with her/offering no argument, I was in agreement - I'm sorry but how do you disagree with someone who doesn't want to watch your child anymore? What was I to do, drop him off at her door anyway for two weeks? What makes it worse is that my contract/provider manual only discusses parental notice; it says nothing about my responsibilities when the provider decides to terminate. Within days of my son leaving, I contacted the agency asking if I still needed to give written notice but after several calls and emails, have heard nothing. Is this normal and am I required to pay?

Thank you

If you state your province, the caregivers in your area will be able to help you with the laws. I'm not with any agency so I can't give you any information but there are many people on our forum who will help you I'm sure.

I'm very sorry you had such a negative experience, but for the sake of your son I hope you find a better place for him. If you offered to help manage all of the problems, then you are the kind of parent I want in my daycare, so I'm sorry the caregiver didn't work with you. It's the other way around most of the time and the parents don't want to work with us.

What I am understanding is that you told your provider that you would be giving notice, but had not done so formally, as in writing. My impression is then you had not given her notice, you had simply uttered the possible intent to do so.
Since, no official notice on your part has been given, and you were unprofessionally shown the door without notice, I would conclude that you do not owe any monies to the agency. The provider needed to follow the termination guidelines set out in your contract. If your son's behaviour had become too difficult for the provider to handle, she should have contacted you (or the agency) to explain why care needed to be terminated immediately.
Of course, there are always two sides to a story, but from what you are saying, this provider acted unprofessionally, and perhaps negligently considering you voiced your concern regarding your sons behaviour and she reassured you that all was well, when it was obviously not. I think she was keeping your son enrolled for the money, and has perhaps found a replacement, thus the unceremonious exit. If they threaten to sue you I would let them. Keep all correspondence and write down everything you recall regarding your communication with this provider. Good luck

Devil's advocate here.

While I totally agree that I would refund in this case of immediate termination (or at least not charge), I would (and have) called parents' bluff when they threaten to terminate if they don't agree with me on things. I don't want their money. I don't want any accusations. I just want them out. If you are at the point of making threats to terminate, you should not be bringing your child back ever. This is my personal opinion, but the provider's monetary situation should have no bearing on how long you would force your son to stay in a care situation you didn't feel was right for him. As a mom, if it was the wrong place for my kid, he wouldn't be going back the day I realized that. This is the red flag that this post is bringing up for me. This is the part that is not necessarily ringing true for me. It also sounds like you are trying to say that this behavior is because of the dayhome. If these problems truly were not a part of my day and I had watched this child over a year, yeah, I could see that provider taking it as an accusation and offensively.


I do not necessarily think that home behaviors are related to dayhome behaviors in every case. The provider may have been telling you the truth when she says it wasn't an issue at their house. Many times I have had parents shake their head at how WELL their child behaves here and how I can get them to do things they never could. So many children that fall asleep easily and without complaint for a soother. So many kids that eat their vegetables. That say please and thank you and WOULD NEVER EVER talk back to me, or hit me, or bite me, etc. etc. etc.. These things are shocking to these parents because they can't get the kid to do it at home for them. So maybe she wasn't willing to work with you on these problems, because they were really not problems for her. The amount of children she takes on, as long as she is within ratio and within legal numbers really isn't your business. If she isn't being legal about things, her agency will be having words with her and she won't be licensed for long. I just feel you are reaching in some places in your post.

It sounds like you have had a bad experience and I hope you and your son find a great place to accommodate his needs. I just think there are two sides to every story. And yes, once again, if I am not willing to provide the care for the termination period, I refund so I would chat with the agency about that.

If the provider with an agency suddenly quits it is up to the agency to find a temporary placement for the child. Are you intending to work with the agency still in terms of finding a new caregiver or are you quitting the agency altogether. If you are leaving the agency then yes they are entitled to notice per the contract. If they are unable to find you alternate care then I do not see that you are under any obligation to pay for care that is not available.

I get that you asked for adjustments at the dayhome but sometimes that is not possible and a different setting is required. I would suggest looking for someone to come into your home so your child has the advantage of familiar territory or find someone that is only taking 1 or 2 children making it very clear that you will need to terminate without notice if they go over in what they have said they will do.

LadyJbug

First, to all, I'm in alberta....

And I appreciate your comments and thoughts. I want to reassure you that 'threatening' my provider with termination was never my intention - but I would and will not place other children at risk. I know my son and while I need care, it would never be at the expense of others. As for the behaviors, your points are dead on, I nannied for almost 10 years and, in my experience, children never 'test' their caregivers like they do their parents - I was given credit by grateful parents when in reality, it was really because I wasn't mum, but hey, it made me quite in demand :). And I wasn't sure where the behaviours were coming from - but I had worked with my son at home for 4 weeks and things weren't getting any better - the only way to truly test where the issues lie was to implement a few things at the daycare and see if there was improvement. And the strategies I wanted her to try were quite simple (in my opinion) and had been used successfully both at school and by other providers. The first thing I had asked was if my son could have his tent in the playroom - it is very small, goes up in a single motion and has three meshed windows at the top so that while he can curl up with his stuffy, you can still monitor him through the windows. My son is 9 and has been diagnosed for almost 4 and 1/2 years. The school has been very active in getting him to realize when he is overstimulated and to ask/take a quiet time on his own. He was perfectly capable of doing that, it's just that he had no place to go (when my provider became licensed, she moved the dayhome to her basement - one big room). My son is very visual so my provider (with extra children) was going to the park more often (her yard is small and unfinished). Running, jumping, movement stimulates my son, but swinging, blowing, playing in sand all calm him. So a couple of strategies I had offered were, when they went to the park, was to have him finish the session with swinging (he only needs 5 mins) or if a sandbox, let him play there. If none of these are available, have him blow bubbles, feathers, etc (I even bought a case of bubbles and a package of feathers to give to her - this is also a group activity so everyone could participate). Also, she had become more busy, taking field trips. I asked if she could give me advance warning so that I could take the day off and remove him for the day (my boss needs at least a week's notice).
And my son needs a more quiet atmosphere, that is one of the reason why I had him with a private provider, so that the ratio would be lower. When my provider decided to become licensed and go with the agency, I said nothing, as it is her business and it is not my right to question her decisions. The same with the strategies, I can offer them but if they do not work for her and her program, then perhaps the best is for me to leave and find another provider and with no hard feelings on my part. My son is very hard to place and I am well aware of that. He also commands more time and attention and I have always compensated my providers for that as well (the dayhome rate was $36 per day, I pay $50 a day when my son is full time; $75 per day when he is part time; he is on a special diet so I provide all his food and, once a week, provide all snacks/treats for the dayhome so that he can participate with the other children and not feel so different),
As for the red flag, if I did not trust my provider to look after my son properly, I would never have left him in a care situation where I thought he was not being taken care of. That was not the issue here, I had no problems with the provider's level of care, the fact that he had yet to escalate in the dayhome was proof of the quality of her care but, what I was doing at home was not working and, if the dayhome environment was what was behind the escalation, then eventually, the behaviors would happen there. Unfortunately, the only way to determine if the changes were at the root of the problem was to offer him calming strategies in the dayhome and see if that helped....perhaps I was being too cautious but I will not place other children at risk.
On a more positive note, I took my son out of care for 10 days (to give him time to calm down), I was lucky to find another provider who has experience with both autistic and FASD children. In the two weeks that my son has been there, all the behaviors have stopped. And I want to stress, I don't think that my provider was doing anything wrong, it's just the transitioning from a private dayhome to the agency brought about so many changes that my son was no longer able to cope without some supports in place.....

Okay! Well, thank you for explaining. That makes a ton more sense! Now that I have all that information it sounds like she was not completely cut out to be a special needs provider. Not everyone can do it. I don't think she handled the termination right, and don't think you should need to pay. I know that if any providers have families that mention leaving (not necessarily threats-perhaps not the best choice of words on my part), they look for replacements right away. They don't want that fear hanging over their heads; not knowing if it was going to come. If she was aware to the point that there was a diagnosis, a special diet, and receiving special compensation for this extra care, that's a horse of another color. It sounds like you just outgrew each other and she found she wasn't cut out for it with a larger number of kids in care. I wouldn't pay those two weeks as she was not willing to provide services for them. I am in Alberta too.

Glad your son is now in a place he is thriving in.

In many areas a special needs child regardless of age counts as one of the under 2 (ie infant) spaces when working with licensed care and that could be a problem too in that she found this out after she went with the agency - possibly on the first home visit where the agency supervisor saw all of the private children she had too. In other words she was grateful for you giving her the out to terminate your son. The accommodations you were asking for were not that dramatic. Also being 9 he will be back in school any day now so that will take more of the pressure off her so assuming there were other issues at stake here.

Glad things are working out for you in making alternate arrangements that suit your family better.

Please tell me you are not with WeeWatch they are crooks...
However the Home Daycare agency policy is probably that they Provide a service they don't guarantee that you will like it. If your provider quit on you they should be finding you alternative care for the remainder of the weeks. If you choose not to use it they will bill you a reduced daily rate (as if you were not using back up care during a providers vacation) The whole thing is they contract the providers so they technically do not have to give any notice of termination of care....

If you take this to the head office many times they will not make you pay especially due to your circumstances.

Good luck