I am not sure what to think. Sorry for the long post, but please help.

If you are not required to give notice during the trial period, I am not sure that I would give notice on Monday. I would wait until pick-up on Friday and I say this as a parent because I would nto want my child to be with someone who knows he is being taken out on the Friday. If she is unwilling to work with you and you feel it isn't going to work, then I would wait until the end of the week that you need care. i am paranoid as a parent...that's why i opened my own daycare I guess...I just would worry that things might get even worse for my child.

I arrived at daycare and his pull up was soaked as were his pants....she had no explination for this I pulled him out of there and left...... and I am not going back EVER..and the last thing she said...you still owe me money for April....

not sory nothing she was just wooeied about her money

Yuck. Momto Mom, I'm glad you've found a wonderful new fit for your little man!!! Please update us on how he transitions to his new caregiver.

Glad that you have found someone that will better meet the needs of your son and what a bonus to have him settled into care and then be able to stay for school.

Sorry guys I was very emotional when typing

I hope for you and your son that your next caregiver is exactly what you are looking for. No parent should have to be so concerned about their child, in a scenario where he/she is supposed to be safe, cared for and stimulated.
To get back to the original question/point (I am, once again, late in replying it seems!); I think what it comes down to is whether or not you as a parent and the other woman as a caregiver are BOTH willing to determine what the issues are and improve them.
If a caregiver is dismissive, vague and downright rude- I don't see how they can expect anything but anger and mistrust from the parents.
At the same time, many parents see their children through somewhat rosy colored glasses (my own kids included, lol!). It can be a tough pill to swallow if someone is saying "Listen; we are having some issues with so-and-so's behaviour. This is what's going on."
If I am having difficulties with a child, then the parents hear EXACTLY what is going on, why I am not okay with it, and what I need to see happen.
If a child had peed his pants and then was AGRESSIVELY refusing to change, or what have you, I may choose to leave them in that state. He's 3, not a baby. I presume that at this stage, he knows at least somewhat how to dress himself. If he fights my assistance, I am also not going to rassle him to the floor. However, that would be explained in detail!! I may even have texted them, etc to apprise them of what was going on.
Ultimately, I am glad you are changing caregivers. It does not sound like a good fit.
Best of luck!!!!

So as I said to some of you, I arrived to get him on Thursday, and his pants were soaked through again....And as I said I pulled him out right away no questions. All the provider was worried about was money owed. No" sorry" no "that's not true." No "I want to work with you" ...nothing.

My husband came home for the weekend, as he had a break from his business training. As I was very upset I was in no shape to deal with this, and my husband is better at dealing with confrontation and hard things than I am.

He called her saying...

"You've been changing ________ every day right? She stated she was. And you've been using his pull ups correct? His wipes too? I heard her say that was correct. (I was on the extension)

My husband....

"Well that's interesting, his wipes have not been opened, nor have his pull ups, and none of his underwear has been touched eithier. (We are working very hard to get him to use big boy underwear)

She says.....

"Uh uhh mmm "we were using ____'s. He grew out of them so we figured we'd let _______ have them.

What a line.

I have reported her to Child Protection Services, as after questioning my son he told me he did not have morning or afternoon snack as her handbook states and only ever had "swoop" (soup) for lunch. He also stated that she yells a lot.

I have also reported her to early learning as even though she is private, she is still required to obide by the numbers set out by the branch in my province and I know she is over as I have counted at pick up. (in my head) I also know which kids are hers.

If you are providing good care in your home let me make this clear--I would never report any of you..I am not like that..but in this case hell yes. Especially when she outright calls me a liar to my husband's face.

She wants to take me to court for the money, because at this point I am feeling that payment is not owed as I withdrew him due to negligence...(I paid for March she says I owe for April)

Let her I have the rec. for the pull ups, that I bought the day before he started. (I won't open them) I have photos of his wet pants.....I also have messages saying that I do not need to see my contract because I should know what I signed.

Again let me say..I would never screw anybody of money, but in this instance--fight I dare you.

If a court tells me I owe I will pay this winner. I so wish I could warn people about her.

Personally, I am very proud of you and want to thank you for reporting this woman. If all of the people who were over their numbers which is breaking the law and giving poor care to these precious children and scamming the parents I think it would be a wonderful thing. The children are the ones who will be scarred for life. I know because that's one thing that happened to my oldest daughter and I was too young and too naive to know what was going on until after the fact. This was back in the day of 'babysitters' only and that's why I get really ticked if I get called that B word!

I am so glad you pulled him out of there and went ahead and reported her! As momof4 said it does scar the children. I hope they deal with her the proper way and that you win this case if it ends up going that far. She does not deserve any of the money you have already paid nevermind aprils payment too. This story really bothers me and sorry you had to experience this. At least the worst part is done and he is out of that horrible enviroment.

That is such a horrible thing that your son went through and it's people like THAT that give the rest of us a bad name. You should of marked his pull-up that he was wearing (sorry, couldn't remember if he was wearing any or just underwear) that way you would know for sure if he had been changed, although from the conversation, it doesn't sound like he was. I'm glad you reported her!

I did mark it that's how I know... I marked it on thursday morning, I thought you were all going to give me heck cause I refused to pay her or something, would you?

You did the right thing. I'm so very sorry that this is something you have had to deal with. My cousins were in a tough situation once too and it makes me sick to have learned that my one year old cousin was never changed or taken out of his stroller and that their provider was so negligent that other children were able to lock his sister in a closet for hours before her mother found her at pick-up time.

Don't let this discourage you from home care as it can be one of the most wonderful experiences for children with the right caregiver. We are out there. This forum alone is proof.

A good caregiver will tell you EVERYTHING, show love to your child, and your little one will come home brimming with excitement. Wish you were in my area so I could offer temporary care while you found a good permanent placement for your munchkin.

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Originally Posted by parentof1

I did mark it that's how I know... I marked it on thursday morning, I thought you were all going to give me heck cause I refused to pay her or something, would you?

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I wouldn't pay her either.
You're a smart Mom (marking the diaper) Way to go!

Just so you know. You CAN warn people about her. It's not slander if it's the truth or YOUR truth. Just thought I'd mention it.

Good for reporting her. You pulled him out with there still two weeks in March and those two weeks were paid up so it is pay in lieu of written notice. Not sure how much notice was required in your contract but there are certainly extenuating circumstances. By the time she is inspected she won't have the heart to take it to small claims court because she will either be closing her doors or spending all of her time making changes to her daycare to comply with the rules.

Something you might want to do is ask you new caregiver to write down any comment your son makes about his old daycare in the sense of it would just be the random thoughts of a 3 year old but put togehter with what is found might shed some light on what was going on there. She is also an outsider and not him telling you what he things you want to hear. Such at snack time if she just randomly asks him so XXXX what did you used to have for snack at your old caregiver's.

I agree I would have pulled him as well - I certainly would not be paying for APRIL when there is visible proof that you have grounds for termination without notice.

As a business women while I have never had to deal with a client terminating because they felt my service was inadequate or their child was not adjusting or safe but I would like to think that if I ever had a client who was SO unhappy in my service and felt they were terminating with 'cause' and without notice ....I would be refunding them their security deposit in lieu of notice or if I had not taken a 'security deposit' to protect myself I would not be taking them to court to try to GET notice money from them ... seriously at my core I am a WOMEN and my maternal instincts tell me that no mother should be forced to leave their child in a situation they do not feel is ideal just because of $$$$$ and not being able to afford to pay a notice period to me while putting a new deposit down somewhere else!

Notice period and security deposits are in place to protect the provider from those clients who just pull for NO REASON to give the provider time to fill their space or prepare for the change in income that comes with someone pulling or clients who regularly bounce cheques for service and bolt without wanting to pay ... if you have two weeks up front you are always in a 'credit' for service so to speak to protect from clients like this.

Now if I strongly felt I had done nothing WRONG and the client was just full of unrealistic expectations ... like being pissed cause Little Johnny got finger paint on his designer overalls and rather than making more laundry for mama I just sponge treated it and left him in those pants cause they were still 'dry' or not having read the contract 'clearly' and throwing a fit cause they did not realize they had to pay me for Stat holidays or something cause THAT I would not be accepting as 'cause' ... but if a child was truly unhappy and not thriving I would not want to make that worse for the client.

As a provider, I am GLAD that you have reported her. As other posters (and fellow moms!) have said, these are not trivial issues. Had you been witholding payment over things that Reggio mentioned, we would probably be on the side of the child care provider. But it is her duty and responsibility not only as a provider, but as a decent human being, to care for your son properly.
I hope she has to shut her doors. Somehow, I highly doubt she will end up actually suing you. That takes effort, and all signs here point to LAZY.
Again, I wish you good luck finding a better situation.

For me I can't comment fully as there is two sides to every story BUT based on what you are saying & coming from a Mom who had a child previously in care I would have to agree that pulling the child from care was the best decision.

The money issue: why would you pay for an entire month of care if they have been pulled from care.

Good luck and I wish you all the best for your little one!

I'm glad you pulled your child from a situation that did not seem good. We always have to do what we feel is best for our kids and it seems that you have done that. I hope your son will thrive in his new daycare and all of this will be in the past soon.

So glad that you've pulled him, that's disgusting about the diaper, YUCK! I agree, that you do not owe for April, that's a load of crock and I'd bet a million bucks that she won't dare take you to court anyways. I'm so sorry you had to go through this! Where are you from? If you're from London, ON please message me with her name so I can warn my friends if they are looking for care in the future!

So it's been five days.... My son is at his new dayhome and his provider has nothing but good things to say, and says that my boy is a wonderful addition to her group as he seems to want to be "big brother." to some of the younger ones. Shares very well, loves her teen daughters and her husband....

She even went as far to say that she thinks that his previous daycare was trumping any training progress with the toliet as he has been in underwear all week with one pee accident, and some poop accidents, instead of the solied pull ups he was coming home in, which is a relief for me. (pooping is a bit more of a job but we are all working very hard. )

She says it will come as he loves getting jelly belly's for his washroom efforts...(He gets them at home too) She only uses pull ups if they are in the car, or on the bus so it means that they are going through them a lot slower too.

Our previous provider is calling us multiple times daily demanding payment --saying that she believes in her dayhome and we are slandering her--she leaves this in vm as I do not answer the phone.... I know that all of you work very hard for your money, and I WOULD NEVER EVER JIP ANYONE UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES.

We have paid upfront for March and she is seeking a 600.00 payment for April even though I withdrew him after 5 days, DUE TO NEGLECT. As previously posted, any advice on how to deal with this hose beast?

I'm so happy that you found a great daycare provider! Just let that old crazy lady make all the threats she wants because she's not going to follow through. However, I might send her an email and tell her that you are recording her verbal threats in writing word for word in case you need to take her to court. It's terrible when a bad HDCP gives all of us good ones a bad name!

I am glad you found a provider who is working out for you and your son. It is so important to feel secure and trustful when you drop your child off each day! I am glad you haven't let the one bad apple spoil it for all the good providers out there! As MOMof4 said above, I would document everything in case in comes down to going to court. In fact, I would sit down and write down everything that happened from your first meeting with this woman until now with dates and times if possible (especially things like the wet pants and her comments about it). I would save the messages, but also transcribe them as suggestedf above. I would continue not answering the phone. You don't owe her anything!

Definitely don't owe her anything. Do the same as above posters noted (just like we do in the daycare centers!).

I would go as far as blocking her phone number(s) and emails. Do you have a receipt from the month of March that you paid? Do you have a copy of the contract that you signed? These are also beneficial for later incase she tries to attack you more. If she does try more, I would personally call the cops. There is no need for this.

And I too am glad that you've found someone that suits your childs needs! :)

The providers gave you some great advice. I would go one step further just to contact the police and make them aware of the situation and it's on file...so if she goes any further and does anything like show up at your house then they know about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jec

The providers gave you some great advice. I would go one step further just to contact the police and make them aware of the situation and it's on file...so if she goes any further and does anything like show up at your house then they know about it.

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Dido and let her know you made a claim with the police! Good to hear your little man is doing well!

I'm curious as to why she thinks you owe her for April??? You paid for March in full and pulled him out midway through the month. I would make a claim with the police, call her back and say "No, I did not give you notice of withdrawal as I do not need to give notice when my child is being neglected, as neglect is a form of child abuse. I have all of the incidences of abuse documented and photographed and will be turning them in to Children's Protective Services. I also have a report into the police for harrassment. Please stop calling this number as our business with you is long over." CLICK.

I'm so glad that it's working out better with the new provider...I had a bad feeling about the previous one from your last post!

I totally agree. You owe her NOTHING. You paid for the month and then used her services five times? I think she's the one coming out on top. Due to her negligence, you have now paid for two weeks worth of daycare TWICE.

I second what the others said about calling the police. It documents the harassment, and it'd be so nice for you to call her and say, "I am telling you to stop harassing me now. I have filed a complaint with the police. They know all about the circumstances which caused my son to be withdrawn from your care. They will be notified if your phone calls continue.

God I think this lady is crazy wth is wrong with her? She has called my home 3x today demanding payment filling my voicemailbox with her nonsense!! Not only that, but behind my back she is sending "nice emails" to my husband basically calling me crazy, saying that I was unreasonable and that everything I said was lies.....

I sent her this email:

Good Morning __________,

I have received your voice mail, and am writing to express for want of a better term, my thoughts on the subject.

_________ had SOAKED PANTS for 2 days in a row. You mentioned it to me the one day, but failed to the second—I turned him around only to discover he pants were soaked and he had been wearing the SAME PULL UP ALL DAY. I know this as it was marked, say what you will but I have people who are willing to back up my statement if needed. Also it is quite interesting that ___________'s pull ups and wipes were never opened, and when you were confronted about this you back peddled, saying __________’s were being used, he was with you for a week and you never opened them once? At home and in his current care situation _________ uses at least one pull up per day.

WE PAID YOU FOR THE MONTH OF MARCH AND WITHDREW HIM BEFORE THE MONTH WAS EVEN OVER. In fact we did so on Friday March 16 2012, our reason for withdrawal was DUE TO THE FACT THAT YOU WERE NOT CHANGING HIM, NOR WERE YOU FOLLOWING A CONSISTENT POTTY ROUTINE and that is considered neglect (not changing him).

After seeking council on this matter we will not be paying you any fees for the month of April. As stated above ________and I withdrew him due to NEGLECT . We used your services for 5 days!!

Please be advised that any further attempts to contact us by phone/email will be documented and reported to the police as it is now considered harassment, as well if you or any your family members or ____-(THE OTHER DAYHOME PROVIDER) and her family members show up on my property, and gain entry, we will call the police to escort you away as you are not welcomed on our property at anytime or under any circumstances. (we live in an apt)

I will no longer speak with you regarding this issue unless required to do so by law.

Thank you,

_______________

She then emails me back saying I am in breech of contract, and that I am coming up with excuses not to pay, is this girl on something?

What do I do if she takes me to court?

How should I handle this?

Please help me....tears are streaming down my face, because I cannot believe that someone would try to tell my husband that I am a liar, and not only that be sneaky about it, does she not think we live in the same home? Or share things?

Is she threatening to take you to court?

not so far, but she probly will, cause she seems that crazy...I cannot believe this!

Have you called the police ? If not maybe it's time

I will tell you the same thing I would tell a provider being threatened to be sued by a client ... save the emails she sent, save the phone messages to a digital device if possible or leave them on your machine, ask others who've seen or heard her threats and behaviour to document it NOW while fresh in their mind her exact words and claims and so forth, if they saw his soaked pants, unopened wipes and diapers and so forth to record that statement and so forth with the date to keep it 'accurate' in their mind and document and save ALL your correspondence from your end of the deal to back up why you feel 'just' in your termination of the contract.

BTW ... what was your 'contract' with her around termination and grounds? Does it address a 'probation' period or anything where either party can terminate during that time 'without notice' if things are not a match? In absence of that how much notice did it require on your part to terminate? The neglect claim on your part aside .... just wanting to get a feeling for WHY she is thinking she is entitled to an additional MONTHS pay from you if she got paid for the month of March in advance and you pulled him on March 16th ... she already got two weeks PAID notice which seems more than fair if indeed her service was not 'up to standards'???

I realize and so do the courts that there are ALWAYS two sides to every conflict in life which both parties feel passionate about them being 'right' and often somewhere in the middle is the truth often shrouded in miscommunication / personal perception of situations and so forth which is what they will try to find ... if she is to take you to court it is likely cause she honesty believes she did not do anything WRONG so either that he had been 'dry' up until moments before you arrived and she had just not had chance to change him yet cause some kids CAN hold it for a long time and than 'flood' out and that is why she is feeling entitled to proper 'notice' in her mind cause your reaction from her perception was unjust ... so perhaps she changed him as she says using other clients stuff?

Although IMO I will admit using other clients supplies on a child is so NOT COOL practice unless it was an EMERGENCY like the kid ran out and it was borrow or sit in a poop diaper ... cause some kids are allergic to certain wipes or diapers that is WHY we ask parents supply them and parents should have every reasonable assumption that this is what WILL occur?

I wish you the best of luck in your resolution of this - conflict is never fun and the stress of being sued is NEVER fun .... ideally maybe mediation between someone at small claims would be a better way to go for everyone!

Yes, Inspired by Reggio has covered it all. But now that you have sent a professionally written FINAL letter, let it drop. I've been involved in a situation where a woman started sending me terrible emails and I let myself get pulled in to try to defend myself and I now know that it is a mistake. These types of people NEVER STOP and when you are tyring to defend yourself you are just fueling the flames and they keep going and going.

Block all the numbers and emails and forget about it. She's NOT going to take you to court.

100% agree with momof4

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Originally Posted by Lisa

100% agree with momof4

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As do I. I would no longer engage in dialogue with this woman, either verbally or via email. I would, however, document any attempts at communication that she makes toward you. Save her emails. Record her voicemails and save them.
I also highly doubt that she is actually going to take this any farther than she has. It costs both time and money to go to court, and effort as well.
I, too, wonder what the REASONING is (in her mind) that you owe her more money? She must have said why she feels like you "stiffed" her. What were the terms of the contract regarding dismissal/termination of care? If there was no contract at all, you will for sure come out the winner here (as much as can be said in this case, anyway). Does her agreement call for a full month's notice? Mine does, FYI. But I don't disagree with your pulling him, I am glad you did. Just curious what her rationale is, other than greed....

Have you reported the incidents to the police? I had mentioned it on your update #2 (sorry haven't been on in a week and might have missed reading that you did)
The ladies above are right, leave it be now. She might just be the type of person who knows if she can rattle you, she will.
Sorry your having to go through this

She had a vague contract at best...it was poorly written with bad wording, and when questioned on it--she wasn't really up for debating, first she said she had 2 weeks notice, then one months then 2 weeks adjustment then none...it was confusing....Since this email she has sent me 2...I have not replied as I am done, but its like...Is she?

SHE STILL SAYS I OWE HER 600.00

and also too, when she first told me how much I owed it was 600, then 300, then 600, then 300, now shes back to 600, crazy chick

Do you not have a copy of what you signed?

I agree with all the other posters to not have anymore contact with her and to document everything that she says/does/emails etc. Sounds to me like she's just looking to threaten you in the hopes that you will fork over more money. If it does go to court, so be it. It will cost her to do so and in the end it sounds to me like you would most likely win. Negligence of a child MUST come before money! You also need a copy of your signed contract! If not now, for future. Sometimes that it is all you have to support your position as most times this will always come down to your word against hers. I hope it all works out for you. Nothing worse than having to deal with all this drama when you were just protecting your little one!