ditto ladybug and happymomma:no:
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ditto ladybug and happymomma:no:
now that makes sense, there's a missing post. I was wondering why the parent would say that. I will say that its a bit harsh to say that the parent keeps her child in a crate, all the mom was asking was about transition and how long.
I have to say, on a side note, that I agree with daycare whisperer on this one. I have absolutely nothing against gays, or transgendered ppl. But there is a big difference between an adult vs child who thinks they are transgendered. I would feel like I was lying to the child, lying to the other children also by calling them by the opposite sex. And at the end of the day, as body is a body and there is no arguing whether it male or female. I dunno. Tough subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by daycarewhisperer
You are 100 percent incorrect. I have NEVER pulled a post I wrote on this forum. Not once ever. To my knowledge I haven't had one pulled either. The parent came up with the crate line.Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjbug
Mods should have full access to all posts pulled and edited. They need to step up and clear up the crate post and also confirm that I haven't written what you just accused me of.
I hope you didn't just make this up from thin air. Being mistaken is one thing... doing thisintentionally is quite another. I
Transgender children are the ones living the lie and the stress of living as the gender you were not meant to be....well, I can only imagine. I prefer to deal with a child's gender orientation rather than the appearance of what they were born with. There is no lying to support such a child or even a child who is confused and needs to work through their gender identity. Children are more able to work outside the stereotypes and simple explanations as to why Johnny wants to try to be Joanne will not cause the other kids to do the same. Just as being homosexual is not contagious and is part of the persons genetic make up.
This is my opinion, it is not meant to attack anyone, and I hope my words reflect a person who is accepting off all persons who want to be who they feel they need to be as long as they do not hurt themselves or anyone else.
I remember the deleted post as well. I can't say who wrote it, I do not recall, but there was absolutely a message that accused the parent of keeping the child locked up in a crate.
I didn't see that. I know I didn't write that. I know the mom said she didn't keep her kid locked up in a crate for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by steellotus
This is a perfect example of why pulling posts can lead to argument and hard feelings when if the post was left alone it would be easily corrected.
I have to comment again because you are making some serious accusations about ME and my character here and you are not being truthful. I would only say those things if I was totally sure YOU said them.
Read the post made by Island 29, post #16 on that thread. It indicates that the earlier inflammatory post was made by daycarewhisperer. Daycarewhisperer responds to Island29 in post #20. All earlier posts by daycarewhisperer do not appear on that thread which indicates that the earlier inflammatory post made was removed. I did not state for sure who had removed it, only that it had been. Read it and draw your own conclusions. I am 100% sure that she made the comment about the crate and 100% the reason the parent reacted the way she did.
I don't have all of the email notifications/copies of the replies in that thread, so I don't really know or remember whether or not there was a post that specifically said, "locked in a crate", but I'm wondering if the mom's use of that phrase was in response, and embellishing a bit, to playfelt's post, which I'll copy below:
playfelt: "Why can't you take him out in the mornings when playgroups exist if he is only in care in the afternoon?
Daycare is not where you learn to socialize as another poster said. Yes YOU need to take him to places and help him work though the process of getting along with others. What did you do with him for the first two years of his life - keep him locked up at home, never visiting a park, neighbour, playgroup? He spent two years being the kingpin of the kingdom and well doesn't like that he is now just one of the courtiers well too bad - a lesson all kids must learn. Being one of the crowd sucks for sure when you have been taught the world will cater to you. Sounds like you have a lot of lessons you need to teach your child before they will be ready to enter society. Don't blame your lack of training on the provider or children in care. The responsibility rests with you so get out there and enjoy those playgroups with your son."
She uses the phrase "locked up at home", NOT in a crate... but maybe the mom was just embellishing it a bit for indignant effect.
Edited to clarify that I am NOT posting this to try and throw playfelt under the bus here, because for the record, I feel that playfelt's use of the phrase, in the context it was used, is totally legitimate. And she is absolutely right about that catering/coddling parenting style being a big-time cause of the behaviour that was described.
Her suggestions, and mine and others like it, are not always said in a hand-holding way that validates a poster's parenting, because sometimes people need to be shaken a little bit to be woken up, since just like when they use that coddling method on their kids, it doesn't work with the parents either! :laugh:
There was definitely a post about being locked in a crate, Jammies. The parent did not pull that wording out of thin air. I remember it clearly and am still shocked. I can see the parent poster taking some offense to Playfelt's post, but Island29 did not call out playfelt for writing the post. Also playfelt's post is in response to daycarewhisperer's post and she softens it a bit while alluding to the fact that a previous poster mentioned that daycare is not the place for learning to socialize. That is daycarewhisperer's inflammatory post, that is now removed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjbug
I went back again and you're absolutely right, ladyjbug. I apologize, I missed that.
Island29's post clearly references Daycarewhisperer's post as being outrageous, but there is no longer a post by Daycarewhisperer prior to Island29's post. So there was obviously a post by Daycarewhisperer that was deleted, by somebody.
I wish the mods would just put the posts back already. SheeshQuote:
Originally Posted by jammiesandtea
I don't appreciate being attributed to the crate comment at all. The MOM used that phrase. I did not. I didn't imply it either.
OMG!!!!
I gotta say: When I first came to this forum a couple years ago, it was phenomenal!!! People REALLY and TRULY helped one another. I remember post after post of cute things provider's kids would do, sharing stories, and when someone had a question if was actually freakin ANSWERED!!!!!
I stopped posting so often, even stopped checking up on the site because of what has happened. There are people here who have gotten some sort of god complex along the way. questions stopped being answered, people started getting mauled when the poster didn't have the whole story! (because honestly, if your only asking about 'xyz' why do you need to know the rest of the alphabet?) people forget that when unfoundingly changing the subject from the question about the child and start belittling the provider . . . or parent for that matter.
I could literally post a question about how to get a child to eat bananas and I bet anything by the end of the thread I'd be questioned on my menu, told I was a terrible provider and even told to terminate the freakin family . . . over a freakin BANANA
The fact that there are moderators on this site should tell you ladies something . . . . SOMETHING IS WRONG!
these thread are no longer discussions that are helpful, its no longer reading different opinions and have debates or discussions, its BULLYING!!!!! down right bullying.
So you got what you some of you really really need . . . a freakin' recess monitor.
deal with it . . . . because it is soooo needed here.
and i'll add. if you don't like what is going on here please leave, stop posting . . .find a new forum . . . I'd love to come back and start posting with the people ive come to adore without having to read a bunch of child-ish cat fights.
daycarewhisperer, since we are able to see our former posts on our account page, why not just copy and paste your posts that you made earlier in this thread and that should settle your claim that you did not say crate..........then end of.
I pulled up my account and clicked on posts and there is only one in that thread. If it is deleted can I still find it? Can you tell me how to get to account page?Quote:
Originally Posted by mimi
I clicked on my user name and then former posts.
I did that but there is only one post on there for that thread. I didn't pull a post so it had to be done by mods.Quote:
Originally Posted by mimi
The MOM used the phrase locked up in a crate. I didn't.
I wouldn't assume an unsocialized kid who was getting tossed out of ddaycare on day one because he was aggressive and had epic meltdowns was locked up in a cage while at home. It wouldn't have crossed my mind.
I reinstated the post I deleted. I stand by my decision that it was unhelpful to the parent so I will delete it again shortly.
This thread is turning into a finger pointing mess. We are adults. We are intelligent. We have different opinions. This is great- but be kind.
Tone is really hard to read on the web through simple text so double check you posts to see if you could say what you wanted to say more kindly.
Wow. Honestly I believe I wil be joining Judy and heading out of here. This kind of ridiculous cat fighting is not what I come to this forum for. I have been taking a bit of a break anyway because I found the negativity was starting to get to me. I think I may just make the break permanent. I chose to work from home in part to get away from this kind of office drama and I certainly don't intend to get dragged into it now. Who cares who said what and when and why and to whom??!! Really! Good luck to those of you who are here to give and recieve advice and support rather than drama. I wish you all the best.
THANK you.Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaof4
Now my post is back on page one.
Well, shit. Fair enough. I'm out too. Apparently I'm losing my edge and I apologize for the accusation. I think I need a good long break from forums. Sorry for the trouble, everyone.
Apologies accepted. :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjbug
So glad THAT is cleared up. I think we all have learned a lesson from this:) Have a nice weekend everyone
We ALL make mistakes, none of us can say we don't. I've made one (or more, in some people's view :laugh: on this very thread as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjbug
But ladyjbug, your other points and contributions and questions on this thread are still all very valid and your input is valuable on this forum.
See you later ladies. This is freaking stupid. I was one of the first providers to join this forum, and truly enjoyed giving my expertise to others who were just starting up, and learning from others who were in the field for many, many years.
Like some others stated: it WAS a good forum to post. The feed-back was 'nice', and constructive.
Then some people became all high and mighty thinking they are the "KING SHIT" in home daycare. That their responses are the only right ones.
Parents came on, and well, we know...
Well, after being gone for awhile to care for my wee lass, I come back to this shit?! No thanks. I'm done!
Ladies, I would hate to see any of you leave. You are all valued members and I have learned a great deal from all of you. Do we all need to be patient and understanding, yes. Myself included.
I would love to hear from you suggestions on how to prevent this stuff. I am all ears (or eyes as the case maybe)
For sure no question should be asked without a full disclosure of the circumstances because that is how this all started in the first place. Once the parent "clarified" a few points it put a whole different light on the situation. This has happened over and over as someone asks what should I do and then in response they get upset and THEN give more info to clarify which of course if they had shared first they would have gotten more useful replies right from the beginning.
For sure there are regional differences that come across such as what is the norm in a big city like Toronto or Vancouver would just not fly in a rural town in Manitoba or PEI so we need to be aware of that. If we have never lived in other parts of the country it can be hard to identify with the poster without letting our current circumstances cloud our judgement. I have done daycare in three provinces and 5 cities and they were all vastly different.
Along with that I know that people don't want to identify where they live but where it says location in the info under your name (left hand column) where you post is it too much to ask you to put your province? That would for sure help us answer a question asked as provincial rules vary. No sense getting a dozen responses that won't apply.
I know we bring ourselves as adults when we reply to posts but sometimes we have to look at things from the perspective of all the children and there are reasons why some children are better taken care of in a different environment. As an adult I see things differently than my daycare children do so when I teach them I have to see things from their way of thinking and while they are accepting it is also best not to confuse them as they are just learning what things mean - what it means to be a girl baby and a boy baby. All ladies are moms, sometimes all animals with four legs are cows if big and dogs if small. Sometimes we correct them and sometimes we let them work it out for themselves but there is a time and place to mess up their thinking/reasoning by letting them know that what they thought isn't true. Just like math for example we don't talk about negative numbers to toddlers when we teach them to count and often don't even use zero since it isn't anything tangible for them to touch so we leave it out till their thinking matures a bit more.
I think we all need to be more honest with ourselves and admit that when push comes to shove so to speak we just might not react with the same ideals we let on would. Saying we would work with any child to integrate them is a lie based on the number of people that have posted they have terminated kids who cried too much, came too sporadically, didn't follow our expected protocol etc. That is why there is no set program for home daycare and why as independent caregivers we are pushing so hard to keep it that way. There is a home for every child and I admit mine is not always it. I think too often sometimes we give replies that are really about confirming to ourselves that we are doing it right. No one is perfect but there will always be that feeling that if you are doing something different that one of us is right and one of us is wrong and well it can't be me that is wrong so it must be you. Different is not right or wrong it is just different and just as kids are different so are providers.
please close this thread, its useless now and waaaaay of topic.
I have to disagree with you on that, momofnerds. It's very much ON the topic of our differences and how to manage them, as well as some of the specific issues or "cases" that we've been struggling with. I feel that if anybody still has points they wish to make, or elements of their previous statements that they wish to clarify, most of us here still wish to hear/read them, and for those who don't, just skip this thread and please let's stop closing or removing threads if people still have anything reasonably sane and non-abusive to contribute.Quote:
Originally Posted by momofnerds
I think this discussion can be great for the board as a whole, as long as we remember to be open minded etc.
I do believe that closing threads/removing posts is sometimes necessary. Often I close/remove threads at the request of the poster or someone who was offended by it. Sometimes if a thread is getting contentious I close it until I can get to it to read through it more carefully later -- IE when I was at the doctor earlier this week and I couldn't get to read through everything at once.
Wow, look what happens when I leave the country for 2 weeks! Hmmmm, what a read! I know for a fact that Judy is a passionate supporter of all quality, dedicated, no-nonsense, clear thinking caregivers. She has no tolerance for the caregivers who will let clients walk all over them without researching and taking good advice and I'm so glad because she saved me in my first year of business. She helped me grow a backbone, make a great contract, fair policies, rates and then I developed my own routines and adapted all of her good advice to fit my circumstances. She also saved me from the "unicorn" provider who steered me in the wrong direction and almost put me out of business in my first year, that was a close one! Thank goodness I realized who actually knew what she was talking about and who was blowing rainbows out of her butt!
That's why I joined the forum on daycarebear and have been a very regular poster. I want to pay it forward and help others with the knowledge that I've acquired over the years. But I haven't been posting as much lately. I have to agree with Judy wholeheartedly and don't think that posts by caregivers or parents should be deleted unless they are blatantly abusive and bullying. There have been some of those posts/threads over the past year that made me very angry and some of them were mentioned in this thread. However, I too believe that we are here to support each other and should never judge or ridicule another caregiver.
I never realised that mama4 and momof4 were different people before. OMG have I ever been confused! Explains a lot! LoL
Where can Judy be reached? Does she have a blog site? Can anyone give it please?
She has a link to her blog on the bottom of her posts
Imho, there shouldn't be any banning at all in all adult forums, unless in serious situations such as stalking and threatening another member, etc. But if it's just for expression of opinion(s), we should be adult enough to handle situations like those - what more when we're used to dealing with children - do we need to be babysat, as well?
Even with strange personalities like Darasmommy - I wouldn't have banned her. A successful forum thrives in free expression. A "sanitized" forum will only result in being stale, and censorship eventually will kill it.
There is such a style called satirical writing - anyway, philosophically speaking, it's almost impossible to practice fairness if we uphold a group's taste over others! Yes, what is disrespectful to others may not be to some. But if you bow down to the dictates of this group, then you (and the offended group) end up censoring and dictating what the rest of us should and shouldn't read. I'm not trying to be divisive....I'm just trying to state a point.
I think we should all be treated like adults. Children - or those who behave like children (like Darasmommy) will be treated as such by those who'd want to engage them. There is always that "ignore" button. If someone's style is not to our liking, then she is just a click away from being gone. Use the finger.....I didn't mean in that rude way!
The ignore button! :laugh::laugh:
Quote:
Originally Posted by betsy
:yes: I really agree with this, particularly the parts I bold-highlighted.
We have a few different caregiver types or styles on this board, and the fact is that some are agreed with and seen as "good" or "appropriate" by the mod of this forum, and some are not. I'm not talking about truly abusive or threatening posters. Obviously, posts or people like that are unacceptable and unwelcome in any gathering of civilized people, on or offline. But those of us who are a little more "old school", and choose to incorporate a little more no-nonsense into our parenting, our daycare providing, and our advice giving, are scolded as too harsh, "disrespectful" or "unhelpful". The truth is, if you censor and dictate that we can only write in your preferred gentle and non-judgmental style, you're going to be left with a forum that is very one-sided and unbalanced, and in many cases, unhelpful, because sometimes what a parent or a caregiver needs to hear is the unvarnished, un-sugarcoated, tough-love TRUTH, and many times that cannot be transmitted nearly as effectively with a hand-holding validation of their current method or way of looking at something.
In addition, by catering to the few who get hurt feelings so easily, you're depriving all the rest of the opportunity to participate in an adult conversation of differing opinions, styles, and contributions, and effectively dismissing their own maturity and ability to judge for THEMSELVES the value of the post, and to exercise their right to skip over it and keep scrolling if they don't like it or agree, or to click ignore on a poster they don't wish to hear from permanently.
Can't we have a forum where adults with our own minds, opinions, and abilities to scroll past what we don't care for, can have conversations that are diverse in style, content, and personality?
I definitely agree with you ladies about freedom of speech and that we are all adults who shouldn't have to be reminded to be nice or to have our posts deleted for speaking our minds honestly. However, in the case of darasmommy, she was on full out attack mode and I agree that she had to be banned from the forum. However, deleting her posts just confused a lot of people. I usually don't get on this site until late in the day and if things have been deleted, I'm confused!
I don't always agree with everyone but I respect others opinions, even if they don't think the way I think. How can we learn if we don't keep an open mind? If I don't understand something, then I ask people what they meant to say. If I completely disagree with someone I state my opinion, but hopefully everyone knows that I always mean to be respectful.
Yes, I agree that posts shouldn't be deleted - especially when it's something that's being talked about by others! I don't get the chance to access the forum to keep track of everything that's going on. Not only will it confuse me - but it will make me feel like I'm "out of the loop," an "outsider" who's not in with the juicy details.Quote:
Originally Posted by Momof4
Anyway, those threads (with all the posts in them) serve a purpose. We learn and understand from them...you read someone mentioning them and you browse to search for the mentioned thread, and you catch up!
That's how I understood what the commotion about Darasmommy was all about! Should I just take someone's word for it if someone says a poster named Darasmommy is full of venom? Of course not!
Like it or not, all the posts and characters that come in are all part of the history of a forum.
Besides, I think I can think for myself what is socially acceptable or not.
Still about deletion of controversial posts (and characters):
Keeping those posts intact for everyone to read is punishment enough, I think. Immortalising the stupidity of a poster sticks to the persona of the offender....and it's displayed on-line for all the world to see!
In all its laughable and shameful glory! :D
Thus, it's posters beware what you write, and how you behave on-line.
Anonymity is not fully guaranteed, what with all the on-line hackings we read lately.
Anyway, forums should create a separate section for their problematic threads/posters: the Controversial Files. I bet you'll see a high viewer count in that section. :laugh: