Who would Terminate if this didn't improve?

Sorry, I went back to read, and yes, it is about a 3 years old.

But it doesn't change a bit what I think.

3 years old is still really young. And as much as we, as adults, and as a society, we want them to grow fast, 3 years old is NOTHING compared to the 80 years coming.

She doesn't have to be able to do circle time, she doesn't have to be terminated for that. This is what I think. But I do understand that fighting against a crier is hard, so why not give her what she seeks: free play! FlexFunCare does mention that she is happy when getting free play. So let her grow out of that stage at her own pace. We can, as caregivers, accompany the kids to achievements (in all the spheres of their young life to come), but we have to hold their hands, not pull them towards what we beleive should be.

I know I don't see things the way most people do, but I see this as respecting the child. Now if "nothing" was pleasing her, I would say it is not a fit and she is unhappy. But "something"IS making her happy, so why go against it. Let her come to you instead of forcing her...

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Originally Posted by kangaroomama

kids do rise to expectations often and if we set the bar too low then they remain "babies" for much longer than necessary and this does not do them any service as they will struggle to adjust when they start school.

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You are right, but on the other hand, if you set the expectations too high, than you do not do them any service either. You will slowly destroy their self esteem.

They are still babies. Or if you prefer, children. With their own capacities, their own personnalities, their own forces and weeknesses...

Raising kids is not about following a hard line, but about accompanying kids along a line. Sometimes, kids will not follow the line, and instead of pulling them back, you follow them, and help them come back to it.

Maturity doesn't come to all at the same time, at the same age.

Oh Sarah, how many children are in your daycare? When you have 5 children in care you have to make sure they are all doing the same thing, playing or learning or eating or napping at the same time. Yes, freeplay is very important and I include it in my program, but a 3 year old nonstop crier is not acceptable.

I have 3 children in my daycare under age 2 right now so I do circle time at the dining room table so that they are all sitting, with the little ones in their boosters. I read the stories, pull out the felt board & puppets and sing the songs as they are finishing up lunch, then I let them have some freeplay before naptime. It works fantastic for me.

3 years old is PLENTY old enough to be told to put the tears away when you are asked to come to the table for lunch, get your shoes on to go outside, or to put the book away because we are now going to do something different. The fact is, many of us cannot let the children do what they want, when they want, all day long.
It seems to me; that the little girl is disruptive at every turn, as opposed to certain/specific events. If she is allowed to ignore the fact that she has been asked to do something, it will only contribute to the problem. How is that teaching her anything??
Yes, as providers we need to allow for a certain amount of flexibility. But the children do not rule the roost, we and their parents do.
And a 2 year old is no longer a baby, in my mind. When a child turns 2 in our house, they get to begin doing more things that "the big kids" do; such as sitting at the table in a booster, etc. The provider isn't looking for this child to sit and do an hour's worth of schoolwork, she is asking her to do some very age appropriate things.
When I had a crier, and it became an ongoing, attention seeking thing; I would just place them in a closeby location, where she was safe but not disturbing everyone. She was told to come back when she was all done and ready to play. If she came out still blubbering, she was reminded of the expectation and gently led back to the quiet spot.
It's one thing for a child to be feeling sad, having a bad day or to be "not quite themselves". On those occasions, yes; you give a little extra love and attention, throw some more hugs, or pats on the back and some additional reassurance. It's quite another for a child to CONSISTENTLY (as in daily) cry because they wanted the red crayon, or they don't like peas or someone else said that they were a unicorn (and the crier wanted to be a unicorn today. True story, LoL). This is when we need to teach them to use thier WORDS to express how they are feeling, and that empty tears will gain them nothing whatsoever.

Ya - I am all for allowing 'choice' for children, following a child's lead and my program contains 90% free play ... I think you can do this and still have realistic expectations for behaviour and supporting the acquisition of socially acceptable communication!

While crying is normal at ALL AGES when one is hurt or suffering a SEVERE loss and should be 'supported' for a short term under those circumstances as an initial form of communication .... CRYING our of ANGER at being asked to do something that you might not WANT to do but NEED to is not a socially acceptable way of communicating and as soon as children begin to develop communication in my program they are encouraged to COMMUNICATE with words or signs - not to CRY / SCREAM at me when they do not get their own way or their need met 'immediately' ... even my 10 month old is already starting to sign 'more' at meal time instead of 'crying' to let me know he wants more food.

And while my group gets a much larger amount of 'control' in the program than most would allow there are times of the day in my program when 'there is no choice' but to follow the direction you have been give .... because like life there are things we MUST do even when we do not WANT to because they are part of a function home and life and children are expected to accept that with GRACE specially once they have communication ... we all come to the table for meal times - do not have to eat but you do have to come keep us company, we all get dressed to go outside, we all have rest time, we all help with tidy up, during learning activities if you do not want to participate you respect the ones who DO.

If a child does not want to 'engage' in a learning activity that we are doing as a group - while I encourage them to come I do not force them to participate and if they wanted to come but are 'disruptive' to participating they are in fact asked to LEAVE the activity until they are ready to be respectful of the group ... HOWEVER they do not get to run around distracting the others who DO want to participate by doing whatever they 'want' during that time because my EYES are busy supervising the 'group' and I need to know they are safe and engaged too - their choice is to participate with us, or just sit and watch us if they do not want to 'participate or to sit engaged with a book/puzzle quietly within eyesight of me on a carpet square .... if they are screaming about those 'choices' cause they would rather be doing something else that is not currently a 'choice' they would find themselves in BED until they were ready to make an appropriate choice quietly without impacting the choice of the others ... IMO that is teaching a child to respect the needs of the group you are a part of and that while you might not get your 'way' that you need to accept that 'adversity' with grace and choose the 'best' option available to you in the meantime...and reinforces that SCREAMING to try to get your own way at the expense of others should NOT WORK in society!

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Originally Posted by Momof4

Oh Sarah, how many children are in your daycare? When you have 5 children in care you have to make sure they are all doing the same thing, playing or learning or eating or napping at the same time. Yes, freeplay is very important and I include it in my program, but a 3 year old nonstop crier is not acceptable.

I have 3 children in my daycare under age 2 right now so I do circle time at the dining room table so that they are all sitting, with the little ones in their boosters. I read the stories, pull out the felt board & puppets and sing the songs as they are finishing up lunch, then I let them have some freeplay before naptime. It works fantastic for me.

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I care for 5 that are not mine, I also have my own daughter and my 2 school age sons.

I never said that a routine was not important. We eat, nap at the same time. I do have a crier here. And during those times, I just let him cry!

But when one of my 2 years old doesn't want to do the craft that I planned, when he really seems more interested by the toy he was playing with, why not?

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Originally Posted by mom-in-alberta

3 years old is PLENTY old enough to be told to put the tears away when you are asked to come to the table for lunch, get your shoes on to go outside, or to put the book away because we are now going to do something different. The fact is, many of us cannot let the children do what they want, when they want, all day long.
It seems to me; that the little girl is disruptive at every turn, as opposed to certain/specific events. If she is allowed to ignore the fact that she has been asked to do something, it will only contribute to the problem. How is that teaching her anything??
Yes, as providers we need to allow for a certain amount of flexibility. But the children do not rule the roost, we and their parents do.
And a 2 year old is no longer a baby, in my mind. When a child turns 2 in our house, they get to begin doing more things that "the big kids" do; such as sitting at the table in a booster, etc. The provider isn't looking for this child to sit and do an hour's worth of schoolwork, she is asking her to do some very age appropriate things.
When I had a crier, and it became an ongoing, attention seeking thing; I would just place them in a closeby location, where she was safe but not disturbing everyone. She was told to come back when she was all done and ready to play. If she came out still blubbering, she was reminded of the expectation and gently led back to the quiet spot.
It's one thing for a child to be feeling sad, having a bad day or to be "not quite themselves". On those occasions, yes; you give a little extra love and attention, throw some more hugs, or pats on the back and some additional reassurance. It's quite another for a child to CONSISTENTLY (as in daily) cry because they wanted the red crayon, or they don't like peas or someone else said that they were a unicorn (and the crier wanted to be a unicorn today. True story, LoL). This is when we need to teach them to use thier WORDS to express how they are feeling, and that empty tears will gain them nothing whatsoever.

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I know what a cryer is, I have one here! It is draining my energy. But they are kids, human beings. Yes they are growing, I am not saying you cannot expect more from a 2 years old than a 1yo. What I am saying is that you cannot expect from all the 2 years old to develop the same way. Same thing for a 3yo.

So if this kid like free play, why force her to do other things. And I am not talking about eating or sleeping at the same time here! I am talking of giving the choice between circle time (which she probably doesn't like much) and free play.

Of course, I don't know the dcp setting. Can she let her have free play time while the others are doing the program? I could, so I would.

Sarah - everyone is allowed to their own opinion, I just do not agree with your way of thinking at all.

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Anyways.....

I also have a 3yr old who's a cryer - parents baby him like crazy, he gets carried everywhere, parents sit and feed him and is still in diapers. He is a BIG boy, regular diapers don't come big enough for him so he's in pull-ups for the 8-9yrs old, the overnight ones.
Example: today he was playing with some cars and wanted another one accross the room. He called out to me, I asked what he needed, he pointed towards the cars. me-"oh nice you're playing with the cars!!" (he still doesn't speak either so I didn't know what he wanted or was saying) Child breaks down into full on blubbering-runny nose-melt down..........why? he wanted the other car. Me-"If you want the other car....go and get it!" Crying stopped. yeah! So that's ok? that's allowed? I don't think so. I told him that crying for no reason is not acceptable. YET, when the parents are NOT here he knows how to put his coat & shoes on alone. Open the front door dead bolt!!!!! alone! (big no-no) climb the big jungle gym etc. but when they arrive he acts like a 1yr old, & they feed into it.

OHHHH and he used the potty twice today for the first time with me! I didn't even have to coax him, I asked if he wanted to try it and TA-DA! Mom call's during nap time once a week, I told her that he did potty and she was shocked! I mean this kid is beyond ready, He wants it and the parents are holding him back.

Do I agree with "they are babies" no! If they were they would be called babies not toddlers meaning they are not babies....they can do alot more then ppl give them credit for.

Biggest issue I have with the "still babies" is that when do you stop treating them like babies? at 3? 4? 8? 12? 16? 25? It's a bad trend that WILL effect them as adults! They don't learn how to take care of themselves and truly believe it's someone else's job to do it for them.

I agree about the babying thing...I see some of the kids at my son's preschool get carried into the school and it seems ridiculous to me...I haven't carried my son since he was under 2 unless he is hurt or something! Anyway, I am wondering about the child in your care who is three and not potty trained, not talking, etc. Have you ruled out some sort of developmental problem? 3 seems awfully late to not be talking. I know a lot of kids potty train later these days and I see that you are dealing with parents who baby him, but the talking would concern me.

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Originally Posted by Mamma_Mia

Sarah - everyone is allowed to their own opinion, I just do not agree with your way of thinking at all.

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Anyways.....

I also have a 3yr old who's a cryer - parents baby him like crazy, he gets carried everywhere, parents sit and feed him and is still in diapers. He is a BIG boy, regular diapers don't come big enough for him so he's in pull-ups for the 8-9yrs old, the overnight ones.
Example: today he was playing with some cars and wanted another one accross the room. He called out to me, I asked what he needed, he pointed towards the cars. me-"oh nice you're playing with the cars!!" (he still doesn't speak either so I didn't know what he wanted or was saying) Child breaks down into full on blubbering-runny nose-melt down..........why? he wanted the other car. Me-"If you want the other car....go and get it!" Crying stopped. yeah! So that's ok? that's allowed? I don't think so. I told him that crying for no reason is not acceptable. YET, when the parents are NOT here he knows how to put his coat & shoes on alone. Open the front door dead bolt!!!!! alone! (big no-no) climb the big jungle gym etc. but when they arrive he acts like a 1yr old, & they feed into it.

OHHHH and he used the potty twice today for the first time with me! I didn't even have to coax him, I asked if he wanted to try it and TA-DA! Mom call's during nap time once a week, I told her that he did potty and she was shocked! I mean this kid is beyond ready, He wants it and the parents are holding him back.

Do I agree with "they are babies" no! If they were they would be called babies not toddlers meaning they are not babies....they can do alot more then ppl give them credit for.

Biggest issue I have with the "still babies" is that when do you stop treating them like babies? at 3? 4? 8? 12? 16? 25? It's a bad trend that WILL effect them as adults! They don't learn how to take care of themselves and truly believe it's someone else's job to do it for them.

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Originally Posted by Momof4

I have to agree that a girl that age shouldn't behave that way and if the parents aren't working with you it's hopeless. That is my unwritten rule for my daycare but I do mention it to parents at the interview. I will go through ANYTHING and have, as long as the parents are working hard to improve any issue that arises. If not, I have terminated 2X in the past because of that, but have also continued with 2 other difficult children who came around quickly with their parent's wonderful help.

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Just out of curiosity, what could the parents do to help if her behavior was not like this at home?
Thanks in advance!