Judgement in trial

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Wow, that's wonderful news!! Good luck on Wednesday, we'll be thinking good thoughts for you. And yes, enjoy the weekend.

That's wonderful news! Now you can go and enjoy your weekend with less stress!

Roll on Wednesday
and good luck for the fight of your life
we are here for you
sounds like the tide has turned :)

Wow what great news!!! I hope they get that judge by the balls and hold him accountable for making such a bad call and that true justice is done. Have a great weekend

I have not read all the comments, but from what I read, I am really shocked and feel so sorry for you. This should not be happening at all! Nobody will report anything if we have this fear hanging over our heads! I am sure none of us would make a report to CAS if we didn't have good reason...and I am sure it took a whole lot of debate and worry before deciding to do so. To now be sued for trying to protect a child (whether or not the child ended up being proven to be neglected/abused or not) is really disgusting.
I really think you should take this to the media. In particular, CBC has a new (I think) program called "Go Public". I just noticed the other day that they were asking viewers to contact them with stories. This seems like the kind of story that people need to hear about and perhaps that way you will get the help you need. Good luck!!!

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I don't know what I would do if I were in your shoes. I am so sorry you have to deal with this and for so long!!

Are there any options that are a flat out no? What are you leaning towards?

It sucks to do option 3 but will it be the best decision for you and your family in the long run? Can you afford to do it? I would have an extremely hard time with that option too but if it was the best choice than I guess I'd have to suck it up and do it. I really don't know what I'd do...

Teagansmom - thank you for updating us, I can see that this is a difficult time, none of these options is what you were hoping for.

I know this isn't a situation where we all get to vote or anything, but I would still think that an appeal is the best option. However, did you mean that the lawyer would abandon you completely if you went to the media, or just that she would not help with the media? That is a big difference. Have you run out of time for the appeal?

Did the lawyer say anything about the judgement? You can't introduce new evidence, fine, but its the fact that the first judge said you had no right to report to CAS that is the problem. That's what you are appealing.

It might sound stupid, but if you did go to the media, maybe they would know something. A reporter who covers court cases might know how to get things done. (Not like a lawyer, of course) And of course, they won't run a story without your ok first. Good luck and take care of yourself.:glomp:

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If you put up a go fund me or any type of fundraiser please let me know and I will help out as much as I can. Another thing, I know of someone who took out loan money for an appeal, she won, but her back up plan was to file for bankruptcy if she lost.

Have you considered a second opinion from another lawyer? I don't know why the CAS wouldn't want to support you if you went to the media, they should be just as furious at the judgement in your case and, more importantly, people need to know what has happened!! I'm sure every single person on this forum will be second guessing it if they ever thought about having to make a report to CAS.
What about another lawyer, if they agree to take your case, and if you won, they would be paid from the settlement, and if you lose maybe you could find a lawyer who doesnt get paid if you don't win.

I wonder why the lawyer doesn't think your chances are good on appeal? Does the report look malicious to them?

I wonder if the media is a lost cause only because you brought the issue to a few media personal prior to the court case and no one was interested.

I don't know what I would do either. Personally, I never take no for an answer so my first choice would be to get a second opinion from another lawyer. Then I would probably go through the appeal process or if the other lawyer said my chances were slim, pay the money and move on (begrudgingly).

CAS doesn't want this to go to the media because it would make people hesitate before making a report.

Oh, and I would totally sue the paralegal or at the very least report them to the Law Society of Upper Canada.

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This situation just sucks so bad, I just don't know what to say! I am so sorry you are having to deal with this!

The only advice I have to give, just a couple weeks ago, my family went to court. My father had passed years ago, and his neighbour was claiming his estate (LONG story!) anyways the jusdge said to us "the last place you will ever see justice is in civil court" we ended up settling (basically we paid a guy that took my father for every cent, to go away) You might be able to fundraise to collect some of the settlement, but if you appeal and lose, could you get out of that debt? I think I would go to the media, if nothing, it will bring attention to a flawed system!

There must be a way to raise money, even if it's not technically being used for legal fees? I'm really a novice at this, but it seems like there should be a way to set up an account if the just want to give you money.
Let's say you raised money to pay your mortgage, but the money you saved by not making a mortgage payment... you know?

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I looked up Champerty -Google - the legal definition seems to be someone paying for someone else to sue (a third person) in exchange for a share of the award or winnings. A Go fund me campaign wouldn't be that. The people who raised money for you wouldn't be entitled to any award. I don't know.

It seems as though the CAS lawyer was working both sides, representing the CAS while advising you but still looking out for the CAS's interest. I think the others are right, could you get a second opinion?

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Also the appeal needs to be filed by the 5th so that leaves me 2 days to decide.

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/sou...s_r14094_e.htm

This link is for the cost of court transcriptions. $4.30/page or $20.00 whichever is greater, sounds like $20.00 max. Not $1500. Am I wrong?

Also, you can get electronic copy for $20.00 Maybe that's easier.

Got this by Google - transcripts from a trial ontario

It's a tough call....you don't want to have to spend any more money then you already did or have to....I am extremely dramatic and always love a good a fight + attention.... so you may not agree with me, but I would definitely write a letter stating your side, all the facts and the outcome. Not too long though, you want to make your case clear and to the point. That letter should be emailed to anyone and everyone who will listen, especially to those who don't want to listen. No one should be blind copied, everyone getting this letter should get to see who else is getting it also. You should send it to multiple lawyers, CAS, caregivers, newspapers, ANYONE and EVERYONE YOU CAN!! This is a devastating situation and you should NOT back down. Even if you pay out, your story needs to be told!

I was thinking about the conflict of interest too in the sense that CAS set you up with a lawyer of their choice to discourage you from doing anything not in the best interests of CAS. What about making use of your MPP with the idea of him/her bringing up your case in question period so it is out there in the hansard files for all to read even in the future. The question is how can a person be brought to ruin for trying to protect a child. ie asking for parliament to assure the members that a person who is a mandated reporter is legally protected as they are supposed to be. The media then will get wind of what is going on potentially on their own or through your MPP - ie not you going directly to the media. The word has to get out there as a warning that life has changed in our province. CAS is not working on your side in this case. Also interesting to note how often this has happened before as in judges determining outcomes. Wonder what advice CAS gave to the family in question when they asked about getting their name cleared - did CAS say their only option was to sue to clear themselves in the sense that CAS is playing both sides of the fence.

I know for sure I will never be reporting anything I see to the actual authorities but telling someone else who is a mandated reporter my suspicions knowing in theory they have to report what they have been told.

I think it's time for the paper. If this happened to you, I bet you it has happened to others too. Imagine the support you will receive but it will also show the loop hole cas is too. All it takes is one person to read your story to make the difference. I don't understand why you can't turn around and file a suit against them for loss of bussiness

I was going to ask about the MPP as well.

This is such an awful situation.

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Why would you have to provide new evidence to appeal? Wouldnt you just be able to appeal because you feel you didnt get a fair trial the first time? You wouldnt need new evidence, you would present the same evidence? Sorry - I dont know much about the law regarding appeals and so forth but this just doesnt seem fair!

Because her paralegal sucked and didn't present any evidence e.g. CAS's testimony. This was one of the things that would have cleared her possibly and she can't introduce this new witness on appeal.

I can totally imagine how hard it will be to get over paying this family. I'm not sure I could have been as rational, in your shoes. And also, that's so frustrating about the paralegal. Thanks for keeping us updated. I'll be watching for the link.

I am sure that the emotional toll this is taking is still overwhelming, but I am glad that you have come to a decision. And having the time to decide how to proceed should you choose to sue the paralegal will hopefully help too.

I am also glad to hear that you intend to continue working on this. I think you may be the best advocate for reform because you have experienced one of the nasty sides of this system. I say "one of" because Toronto Children's Aid Society was in the news yesterday because they are failing to implement recommendations made by the coroner in the Jeffrey Baldwin case.

I will be waiting too for your link and will spread the word too.

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If I can make some suggestions it would be to decrease your fundraising goal. According to the statement, you owe the family $10, 000 + $3000. I understand you would have incurred other costs like your own paralegal fees etc but unless this is listed it may look bad on you. Some sites only allow you to keep the money if your full goal is reached as well (not sure about this one).

The heading could be better too...not sure of what though. Penalized for reporting is just not clear to anyone who is already not familiar with the case or people not in the business.

Also, I would change your picture to one of you with your kids or with DCkids (those with permission) and shots of your daycare/program. The photo although nice just seems so unrelated to the issue KWIM?

Lastly, I know your SIL wrote it but it is very factual and there is not a lot of emotion in the post. How has this effected you (aside from closing your DC?)

Just giving you suggestions so you could possibly be more successful in achieving your goal.

I am not on face book but perhaps this could be shared with ECE professionals, social workers and teachers, all who have a duty to report and this can impact them.

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I hope this isn't creepy but I looked you up on Facebook and shared your status of what happened. I also put a link to your gofundme page with it!

With you going public, I'd suggest making your fb page private but that's just me! I hope this goes well for you...it's really unfair!!