Ontario Caregivers - daycare announcement due today

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Originally Posted by Artsand crafts

I worked for an agency and never have to do any of that. I've never had to apply for a license myself since they do not exist for individual providers. I just had to sign an agreement with the agency and they were the ones with a license. You don't even need to have any childhood related education because theoretically they have ECE's supporting and guiding you (of course, it sounds fancy but not quite the reality)

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Hmmm that's strange. The course I took was through York Professional Care. They license home daycares and also have daycare centres in York Region. They say on their website that they make all their providers do the following :
Each York Professional Care & Education Provider has been thoroughly checked and has completed the following steps for approval:
Agency screening – interview for suitability, personal reference checks for competence, home visits for safety, fire inspection and verified police clearance
Minimum 25 hour Provider Orientation Training Course
Child related First Aid and CPR Course
Proof of good health for herself and all members of the household and assurance that they are free of communicable diseases and have proof of a TB test
Compliance with all health and safety standards in her home as set forth by the Fire Department, Public Health Department and Provincial legislation


I knew a sweet girl who was trying to get licensed through them and all the fencing measurements, inspections etc were taking so long that she finally decided to go unlicensed.

I'm glad you asked that Spixie33...I was actually going to but you beat me to it! I want to be prepared with good reasons in case my current families ask me just that....TIA!

1. someone mentioned about insurance, I know of 2 companies that will insure up to 5 children. 6 children no way. So someone has to send this out to the goverment, they just don't have insurance for up to 6 kids.

2. so my 15 yr old is taking civics and I was telling her about this bill (she wants me to print it out so they can have a discussion on it) she was telling me all the steps it takes for a bill to pass. And its a long one. So just because it passes the first 3 readings, means that it goes to the next level. Tommorrow I will get her to tell me the whole thing and how the bill passes, but even she said it does take a while.

3. I refuse to licensed. I did it when I first started 10 yrs ago and it was a joke. I refuse to get paid sqaut for my services. And all they did was push to go to their center for play dates so they can see how I interact with the children. So when I went I couldn't believe that they weren't shut down. I think the goverment needs to clean their own house before they come and clean mine.

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Originally Posted by Artsand crafts

I didn't get what you are saying. Could you explain more? Thanks

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Sorry if I answer...
I think she means that we would have an advantage because we would only have 5 kids : 1 provider
vs a licensed provider who could have 6 kids :1 provider

Parents usually like small provider :kid ratios so we would look better on paper in that department

also when I went thru an agency, it was wierd that they wanted to make sure that my fridge temp was set to a certain level but didn't care what I fed the kids. Their surprise visits were to sit and chat and annoy me and the children. also the tb test, really because why would I need one but no one else in my house or the parents dropping them off, they also didn't help when their was a problem.

When we go through an agency the parents are bound by the rules of the agency too. When we work independently the parents and I work out a plan together. The parent retains more control over what they want for their child. It allows me to be more flexible in working with a family such as hours, fees, changes to the schedule. The fee is generally lower since there is no middle man taking a cut.

Then go on to show what you have that means you don't need it from the agency such as your own equipment, toys, forms, experience, trainings, workshops you have taken, the support system you have in place such as CCPRN.

I also talk about how the home visits are more disruptive than productive (I speak as having been with an agency in the past but prefer to work independently so I can better meet the needs of the parents) in the sense of because they are unannounced we would be in the middle of baking or reading a story or playing a game and then the doorbell disrupts it all and the pleasure of the activity is lost. The event is then spoiled for the child and that is not fair.

I talk about my years of experience and how when a caregiver is first starting out that for sure it helps them to have someone to show them what to do. (Makes the parent feel that they would be getting less by going with the agency - and truthfully in many cases they are as those that get tired of giving up money for nothing in return become private.)

Anything you can say that makes it that their child will lose out or the parent will lose out or lose control generally sways them to at least consider.

Being unlicensed is something we should be proud of and as far as disclosure a nice paragraph in my all about me section of my contract or somewhere in the parts the parent signs will satisfy the requirement - parent read, knows, understands and signs off on it right.

This is in my contract now which in a way already satisfies the new requirement although this section is for info and does not get an actual signature on the page so will also put it somewhere on the other forms:

2) I have experience working for a licensed dayhome agency both in Alberta and Ontario and am aware of the Ministry guidelines for family daycare. However, I found many of the “rules” confining. I realize that no two families are the same and therefore have unique needs regarding the type of childcare required. Working on my own allows me greater flexibility in forming a partnership of care with each family.

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Originally Posted by Spixie33

What do you tell them are the advantages for having an unlicensed provider?
I have had that question posed to me from a parent once and I blanked out. All I could say was something about how licensing isn't a 247 safety net because inspections only come sporadically.

I know dozens of reasons how unlicensed care benefits me and my business and gives me a lot of freedom in terms of who I take on and what I charge....but what are the benefits to a parent?

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I basically tell them that I would not be able to afford what I currently offer for the benefit of their child if I worked for an agency (and explain that agencies take a huge part of their fee since for most parents that is transparent and haven't given it a though). I tell them that it would be impossible for them to find what I offer with a "licensed" provider since they would not be able to afford it because of their reduced income.

I also think that children over the age of 4 shouldn't count in ratio's anymore because they are in school all day. They need to think about this too. If kids are in school all day how can they be counted in ratio when they are not physically here.

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Originally Posted by Spixie33

Sorry if I answer...
I think she means that we would have an advantage because we would only have 5 kids : 1 provider
vs a licensed provider who could have 6 kids :1 provider

Parents usually like small provider :kid ratios so we would look better on paper in that department

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Got it! Thanks! That's a great selling point too!

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Originally Posted by Spixie33

Agency screening – interview for suitability, personal reference checks for competence, home visits for safety, fire inspection and verified police clearance
Minimum 25 hour Provider Orientation Training Course
Child related First Aid and CPR Course
Proof of good health for herself and all members of the household and assurance that they are free of communicable diseases and have proof of a TB test
Compliance with all health and safety standards in her home as set forth by the Fire Department, Public Health Department and Provincial legislation

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Yes to the above, but that is done by the agency that holds the license.

Fire inspection: it was a fancy name to push the fire alarm button (and rarely asking about the fire extinguisher in the kitchen) when agency lady came for their monthly visit.

25 hour Provider Orientation Training Course: In my case it was around 1 hour orientation by the agency where a lady read some parts of the manual she left with me. I think you could learn much more from these kind of forums that from that manual.

Compliance with all health and safety standards in her home as set forth by the Fire Department, Public Health Department and Provincial legislation: Agency gave me a 2 or 3 pages safety checklist that covered this. I think most of it is common sense. I went above and beyond the checklist requirements since I am very cautious regarding liability. One mom that needed back up care with other providers from the same agency (when I wasn't available)told me that she felt some places were not safe (and still they were following the agency safety checklist)