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Maybe everyone can march to their local city hall, parliamentary building or MPP office in their own cities. I know city hall have nothing to do with this act but I'm sure if there is a large gathering the media would follow.Quote:
Originally Posted by playfelt
As with a lot of bills it starts out as one thing but they bury other details in it that only come to light down the road which is one of the things basically the opposition said - we want to know everything we are agreeing to and will be reading all of it. Yes there is lots in there about safety and the inspections and powers of inspection and I really don't think it is as scary as it seems as it is a response to the Vaughan incident when media learned no one had the authority to really do anything except pass the buck to another ministry.
Then in the same bill they decided to address the inequities between licensed and unlicensed home daycare and that is the part the effects us directly. Think of this as two bills wrapped up in one - a very common tactic.
So really, it is the opposition parties we need to go to with our concerns, so they can make it look like the Liberals haven't thought this through. Both conservatives and the NDP will love to come in looking like a hero!
I know there will be a lot of providers who decide to just continue business as usual and take their chances...but I am not one of them. I am not willing to gamble my families entire financial stability if there is even a 1% chance that someone will report me for being over my numbers and being slapped with a $250, 000 fine!!! I have two young kids of my own and 5 daycare kids...I have always wondered if someone would report me thinking I am over limit, but I have never worried because I know I am not. With this new law, I will be over limit and the risk is way too huge. Once my son turns 6 in May, I could have 4 daycare kids...and maybe like Playfelt said, I could join an agency (shudder..groan...gr rrr) to get the 6 kid limit and have one kid through them...that would put me almost at what I am now (just minus the money the agency scoops from that one child). I could probably make up that difference by raising my rates by $5 per child per day for under 2 spots. BUT, the problem will be finding kids over 2 for three of my spaces. I might have to suck it up and provide before and after care...I don't know.
I am not sure about a rally...I worry that it will come across as us providers not wanting to improve the safety of the kids in daycare.
My husband and I have already talked about this and if the details of the bill outlining the specifics surrounding what we could get fined for are petty things that could easily occur from people misinterpreting what they see and reporting us then it's too huge a risk to take. I have never been reported and always play by the rules but I have heard so many stories on here of neighbours being morons that it just wouldn't be worth the risk if it's as easy as that to get a fine so big that I could risk loosing my home.Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnydays
Quote: "I am not sure about a rally...I worry that it will come across as us providers not wanting to improve the safety of the kids in daycare. "
It needs to be a rally by the parents that will be effected by this new system but then us supporting them.
As far as your son goes, no one is going to know who is registered and who is not so having the 6th child will be the norm for some and not others as well as no one knowing how old a child is so for that we stand to benefit from the peering eyes.
My brother in law was telling me that I should consider becoming a corporation, this would protect me from losing my home.Quote:
Originally Posted by bright sparks
Yes, maybe a rally may not be a good idea. I'm just thinking of a way to get the media to hear us out. I am all for more safety measures put in place.
We need to get the parents to be upset and afraid and voice their opinions. Otherwise it is just a bunch of us whining about a loss of income but who is going to have sympathy when the safety of kids is involved. One of the reasons they linked both parts of the reform to one bill. On the other hand from a positive standpoint getting the bill passed on the safety angle is going to be fairly easy meaning the other changes just get included. Really the options were to totally remove the unlicensed option which is what most had feared was going to happen. This may be the best we can get and still exist.
I think we should be pushing for registration where by we would apply each year for a permit. It would be displayed in our front window (like most businesses that require permits) to notify parents and neighbours of each home's capacity whether it be 3-8 children. It would also state if the provider had her own children under the age of 6. All paperwork (proof of liability, fire inspection, CPR training etc.) would me submitted electronically or my mail and a permit would be issued on an annual basis. Providers would pay for a site inspection possibly to a registering body through the government, an agency or perhaps the OEYC. The amount of children you could care for would be determined by the ages of the provider's own children, location, space available, training, perhaps a fenced yard etc. but each site could be assessed separately...again, paid for by the provider. The permit would contain the number of children allowed and who to call should you believe the provider is in violation of the permit.
This is what is happening today in legislature (it looks as though they really are trying to push it through fast):
CHILD CARE CENTRES
Mr. Steven Del Duca: My question today is for the Minister of Education. I was pleased to learn yesterday about the steps that our government is taking to strengthen oversight of the province’s unlicensed child care sector while increasing access to licensed child care options for families.
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I’m even more pleased to learn that our government has placed a priority on reforming a piece of legislation that hasn’t been reviewed in 30 years. Over the last year, we’ve all seen heartbreaking tragedy in my community of Vaughan within the unlicensed sector. I understand that much of the proposed legislation is aimed at addressing oversight within the unlicensed sector that could help prevent such a tragedy from happening again.
Speaker, through you to the minister, can she please describe how this legislation will improve and strengthen oversight in this sector?
Hon. Liz Sandals: Thank you, Speaker, and thank you to the member for Vaughan for raising this important issue.
The member is absolutely correct. This legislation is overdue for a comprehensive update. That is why, well over a year ago, we began to consult with parents and stakeholders on how to update the legislation.
I’m proud of the legislation which was tabled yesterday in this House and which, if passed, will improve oversight in the unlicensed sector. If passed, it will allow the province to immediately shut down a child care provider when a child’s safety is at risk. It would give the province the authority to issue administrative penalties of up to $100,000 per infraction by a child care provider. It would also increase the maximum penalty for illegal offences under the act from $2,000 in the current act to $250,000 in the new act. It would increase the number of children a licensed home-based child care provider can care for from five to six, and it would require all private schools that care for children under four to have a licence.
The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?
Mr. Steven Del Duca: I thank the minister for her response. I also know that our government has already taken steps to improve the oversight of child care. These include a dedicated enforcement team to investigate complaints against unlicensed providers and the development of an online searchable database of validated complaints.
Speaker, through you to the minister, can the minister please share with this House why this piece of legislation is critical and why it needs to move through our legislative process as quickly as possible?
Hon. Liz Sandals: Another excellent question from the member from Vaughan.
As the member pointed out in the previous question, the current piece of legislation that governs child care, the Day Nurseries Act, was enacted in 1946 and has not been comprehensively updated since 1983. Speaker, that’s 30 years ago. The legislation does not reflect the current needs of our children and parents.
The Child Care Modernization Act would help transform the child care and early years system to better meet the needs of both the parents who use and rely on the system and the children who are placed in its care.
Speaker, I was pleased to hear yesterday from both parties in the House their acknowledgement and understanding of the importance of this legislation. Both of them seem to think we need this legislation quickly, and I hope they will both support and help us to pass the legislation quickly.
I took that directly from the legislature website this morning. It is not looking good for us in my opinion.
Ah good times!!!!
As some of you know....all my daycare kids are under 2 plus I have my own dd under 2 and my dd 3.
Now, I am lucky that my income pays for our extras and we are ok without it because I will have to ditch most of my dck.
I know many of us feel hopeless but aren't really able to rally etc. It takes a few seconds to email every opposition MP as well as media outlets. I just did so using copy and paste!!!
Maybe if enough inboxes are full of the same concerns then someone will notice.
I just sent this to my Liberal MPP
Hello xxx,
I need to express my serious concerns about the daycare legislation currently being proposed by the Liberals. I am all for improving the safety of our children and grandchildren, but there is an important piece of information being left out.
Home daycares usually choose to remain unregistered because of the requirement that registered daycares adhere to ratios of having no more than 2 children under two. Unregistered daycares are permitted no more than 5 children, plus their own, but can have whatever ages they want as long as they remain within the limits of 5 children plus their own.
The Liberals are proposing that unregistered daycares be forced to adhere to those ratios in order to removed the financial incentive to remain unregistered. I understand that... but what will happen to the thousands of one year olds who will immediately lose their daycare spot? For example, I have one friend who has two little ones of her own, plus 5 children under two. She will now have to FIRE four families. They cannot go to registered daycares, because there are no spots for one year olds since the registered daycares already have to follow the "no more than 2 under 2 rule". They can't go to daycare centres, because the spots for one year olds are very limited there as well, due to the high cost of having one year olds. Everyone will be looking for 2 and 3 year olds for their daycares. Home daycares are already suffering because the four year olds have gone to full day Kindergarten. I can't see anyone addressing this in the media. Parents want safer daycares (of course) so think this is a great idea. When I point out to them that if their child is under two, they may very well be fired from their current daycare, they are shocked. They have often spent months during their mat leaves finding a wonderful daycare for their child, and now they will suddenly be told they cannot return to the daycare if this legislation takes effect. Please address this issue with the minister!
Thank you,
my name
Treeholm...that's similar to what I have been sending, except that I have been sending to the opposition. The liberals are anxious to steam roll this through. It is the opposition who may listen because their job is to scrutinise everything and make their own objections.
why is it that most of the incidents happen in the toronto area. Where is the ministry to shut them down. If they can't handle all the complaints how are they going to handle it now. Why are ads on kijjiji still allowed to be there when we clearly see them violating all the rules. Why is no one visiting their homes and why isn't that site being monitored by the ministry. Small steps like this would be better than taking a huge leap. And of course they want to send it thru quickly they are being sued for 4.3 million dollars by the neglectful parent.
I believe that most incidents happen in the Toronto area is just because of the population.Quote:
Originally Posted by momofnerds
I advertise on kijiji, so I take a little offence to that. I follow my ratios, I have a bright clean space, I offer nutritious meals, daily outings. I may not have my ECE but I'm a mom of 3 and run an educational program.
oh, yes I know alot that do advertise and are honest, but there are alot that are not. Have you seen the pics of some of the homes or the number of kids in the pics or the ones that charge 10 or 15 dollars for the whole day, come on someone needs to look into them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teagansmom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teagansmom
I don't think she was insinuating that everyone on kijiji is a bad provider, but you can sometimes tell when they are. When providers advertise for $2-300/month less than their competitors, it can be a red flag for sure.
Yes I understand, I see ads everyday offering care for $100 a week, and see pictures as well.
there is an ad on our kijjiji it 2 sisters (they are older not teens) who are advertising for 15 dollars a day, they say that they adhere to the rules but some of the pics they posted make me go hmmm. And they say that they go to ontario early years alot. Now thats a red flag for sure.
You should send this to the media as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by treeholm
I am an ECE. I have to say that, really, my business will be just fine for quite some time, if not permanently. Given the huge competition there will be for 1 year spaces, I can just up my rates to make up the loss. My children are older, so that doesn't factor in for me.
As I said, I am an ECE. This entire circus has made me realize that all the hard work I put in in school was a complete and utter waste of my time, effort and enthusiasm. This is an industry that places absolutely no value on it's worker's what-so-ever, regardless of background. In the government's eyes, none of us is worth a hill of beans. I looked online yesterday, just to see if daycare wages had improved at all since I abandoned that line of work in 1996. Nope. As an educated provider, I can expect to make a whopping $21, 000/year (no benefits of course). I mustn't forget my wage enhancement cheques, woo hoo! I feel completely devalued and forsaken by a government who is, essentially, using me and my peers as a scapegoat for their own lack of judgement and action in their jobs, ultimately resulting in deaths. For a government who is suddenly screaming about the need to upgrade the system for the betterment of the industry and children, they certainly treat all of us like shit. We are one of the lowest paid industries in this nation. I don't know about you, but I find that very telling with regards to the government's commitment to the children. I chose to go into home daycare, mainly, because (even with an education in the field) this is the ONLY way I can survive financially. That's very, very sad. I want to get licensed, but sadly, my home doesn't even meet the criteria. My entire main floor is daycare and child proofed. But alas, in a townhouse, I don't have 30 sq ft of unobstructed floor space for each child. Nor do I have child sized toilets. Oops, no change table beside a sink either.
My point is this....we need new legislation, agreed? But this is nuts! Why not revamp the entire document? Why not make it POSSIBLE for home providers to license their home, thereby subjecting us to the same inspections, etc. But we need a different licensing standard with regards to environment especially, because home daycare is a different industry than commercial daycare. Perhaps this is something we'd be wise to push for? I've wanted to be licensed forever, but can't. Can't survive on daycare wages either. I would like to not feel that my educational pursuits and years of effort haven't been completely wasted.
Cfred you said it beautifully. I too feel COMPLETELY DEVALUED and demoralized. what keeps ringing in my head is how everyone always says how IMPORTATNT the first years of life are and how important kids our to our future but they sure don't give a CRAP about the people who care for them. Nobody is willing to put their money where their mouth is and it's terrible. All this crap about " unlicensed daycare" is making me sick.
I'm lucky I won't be affected immediately by all this but I will suffer probably in the long term.
And them stripping away our rights by slapping us with big fines makes me wonder also if this is going to be worth the risk.
Cfred would you mind if I copy pasted your post and shared on Facebook? I've been trying to get through to everyone and no one seems to get it but I think you out it nicely. I've been sending emails to MPPS etc but I want to do more.
Sure, go ahead....I'm flattered. This whole thing has been just terrible. Financially, it won't really affect, me, as I said. I'm just so sad as I love what I do and feel completely betrayed by the people who are supposed to take care of us.
Stay at home parents are undervalued and unappreciated. Why should we be any different? Really the reality is that we do what we would do for our own kids if we stayed home and I think in the long run if our daycare parents were staying at home with their kids they would start to do the same things too. Having an ECE or special training doesn't make us a better diaper changer or story reader or cuddler.
As many of you know I have struggled just to fill my spots, I had finally filled them! And now this! I have to now count my own 2 youngest ages 3&4. Now I'm over ratio once this passes, plus the age restriction, I have to term 3 families all at once!
This is completely ridiculous! I'm considering raising my rates for the 2 families that I will have left, or just close completely! Heartbreaking for all the innocent families that will be left with no childcare, also for all of us that will take such a huge financial hit!
Oh wow... in all this stress, I COMPLETELY missed the fact that we can now double our rates for one year olds since spots will be a hot commodity... wait until we let the media know this... "No problem, we applaud the government for taking steps to keep our children safe, and as long as parents understand that the daily rate for a one year old will probably double due to the lack of available spaces, we're sure everyone will be happy with the new legislation."
and these will be the lucky ones. The rest of under 2yo will not even have a daycare to go even if they want to pay moreQuote:
Originally Posted by treeholm
Treeholm, that was a realization that hit me last night....and I slept like a baby. This whole situation blows beyond the telling of it. But on the bright side, competition among parents will be fierce for these precious few spots. It might actually be good for business in some ways. And to those with school aged kids counting in the ratio, it might be worth looking into before and after care for them. It might make more financial sense to have them elsewhere so you can bring in the larger fees with the little ones. I think all the fees will go up, not just 1 yr olds. I was worried sick about my own situation, but as I sat and thought it through outside of the heat of the moment, I realized that we can absolutely work this out....those without small children anyway. At least, with the full day kindergarten, even those with young kids only have a few lean years to get through.
Of course I'm only looking at this from MY perspective. I don't have to ax any families...all the ages line up well. So long as no one leaves unexpectedly, we're cool for at least a year or 2. My kids are grown, so that's great. I feel horrible for the posts I'm reading about having to cut 2/3 of client base, thinking about putting off having another child because of the daycare.....awful and I'm so sorry for all of you. I'm simply looking at it from my own, completely self absorbed standpoint right now. While I feel badly for the parents left without care (and I really do feel for them), my main concern is that of my business and being able to keep a roof over my family's head.
Maybe we could hold a lottery and spaces go to the highest bidder you know like happens on house sales with multiple offers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Artsand crafts
Yup, one year olds will pay double since they are really taking up two spots, so to speak. Could be a really good thing for providers after all... it's like any other business.. supply and demand rules the market. Where the demand is higher than supply, the prices go up (putting my business prof hat on and remembering when I used to teach marketing). How could I have missed this...
I was just thinking of giving the spot to the first family who renews at the 2014 price, and letting everyone know that first families get the spots, the others will have to be let go. Or, wouldn't a bidding war be fun! Joking aside, it is a disaster for most families who scrape by paying daycare... I'm not really that callous... just trying to add some comic relief...
The main problem is that no one knows about these changes except us!!! The news does a two minute clip saying there are changes on the way to protect our children. That's all parent hear. Unless you are in a rare area where there are only a few daycares, I'm sorry to say that doubling your rates will just make most parents look elsewhere. There are hundreds of providers advertising in the GTA right now.
Contact the media and your MPs if you want anyone to hear you.
Wonderwiper, I'm in an area where there is already a shortage of spots, so local providers here can easily raise their rates. Maybe not double them, but at least make up a good portion of lost income. It is just dawning on me that this is going to be a larger problem for parents than providers. And while I'm not happy about that, it does bode well in terms of parents complaining about the legislation. So far the media has been portraying it as a positive thing... but that will change when parents are informed of the possible doubling of rates for spots for one year olds. That should motivate parents to protest now.
Would anyone minde taking look at my letter ?? English is not first language but I would prefer sending it in English so other people can use it. ???
I'm a communications professor. PM it to me.
I was just thinking it would be beneficial to email/contact other providers on Kijiji and daycare bear (tons of providers never bother with the forum) with a quick blurb about what is happening. Just something copy and pasted with contact info for MPPs etc.
We need speakers corner back!
My friend told me that if she didn't think I'd be targeted, she'd recommend that I contact the media myself and invite them to my daycare. What if everyone started doing that? Hmmmmm.....actually show parents what a daycare can look like. Unfortunately, I'm having facial surgery next week that's going to leave me hiding in the bell tower for a couple weeks. Still....I thought it was a good idea.