13 kids in care

I had posted a few days ago that I encountered two daycare providers at a local park that were each 3 kids over their limit. I didn't know who they were so it was impossible to report them.

So I went to the same park today and they were there again, as well as one women that I actually know who does home daycare too (I don't know her that well). I started talking to her and it turns out she herself is 4 over her limit and there a bunch of them that are knowingly over and they don't care - and neither do the parents apparently because I asked. I brought up how she is over her legal limit and she just shrugged her shoulders. But she told me that there is a lady in the area that has 13 kids in her care!

I fell conflicted by this all, with what to do with this information I have learned today. What do everyone think? What would you do?

Personally I wouldn't report any provider for going their limit if I knew about it. I do not commend it by any means, but I'd rather focus my time and energy on my own daycare.

At what point are you an active bystander, though? That's the problem I have. If you know that someone has too many children in her care, and then something happens, would you feel responsible because you didn't do anything to ensure the safety of the children?

I had a problem last year where I regularly saw a provider at the park that would allow very small children out of her sight. I would have felt HORRIBLE if anything happened to the kids and I did nothing. You know what I mean?

It's not about getting another provider in trouble. It's a question of whether the kids are safe. As I say to the children I care for, "are you telling me to get Billy IN to trouble, or are you telling me to get him OUT of trouble?".

For me that is hearsay and nothing concrete! As well perception is reality but not necessarily truth!

I think the bigger issue is why does it seem to be bothering you personally? Those 13 kids could be all part time etc... but that number does seem high!

I have 8 daycare kids all at the same time no! I know my legal limits and I aslo know what I can handle. I have had 6 at the park (my DD included) and I have had parents in awe of how well they play. P.S they are all under 5!

It does almost sound like they have a don't ask/don't tell secret pact of some sort. That still doesn't make it right. I probably would call with the idea of confirming the numbers for care because I was at (and name the park and the time I was there) and it was obvious that several other caregivers at the park had at least whatever number of kids in their care. Then you can thank them very much for confirming the number of children allowed and that that is what you have in your daycare. At least you have given the information to them and really no one can say the call was to get anyone in trouble because nothing about what they will record as the complaint indicates that - it was all about confirming the rules. The fact you dropped the info they would need to find some people not in compliance is well just a bonus.

But I too would feel responsible if anything happened and I knew the event was taking place and did nothing to protect the children.

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Originally Posted by Skysue

For me that is hearsay and nothing concrete! As well perception is reality but not necessarily truth!

I think the bigger issue is why does it seem to be bothering you personally? Those 13 kids could be all part time etc... but that number does seem high!

I have 8 daycare kids all at the same time no! I know my legal limits and I aslo know what I can handle. I have had 6 at the park (my DD included) and I have had parents in awe of how well they play. P.S they are all under 5!

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I know for a fact that they were over their legal limit, I saw them with my own eyes (other than the one with 13 kids) and I know what the laws are here in Manitoba. It isn't necessarily the number of kids they have, it is that they are purposefully thumbing their nose at the law and it makes me worry about the welfare of the children. I myself am allowed to have 8 kids, but only because I am licensed. My home has been inspected, my references and background checked and I have a coordinator that can stop by at any moment unannounced to make sure that I am doing what I am supposed to. My home has been found acceptable and I have enough safe space for a larger number of children.

I have seen some pretty bad conditions in some private home daycares that I visited when looking for a child care spot for my older daughter when I was still working outside the home. I also found out after the fact that the home daycare provider that I did end up with had 8 kids some days (when she was only supposed to have 4) when my own daughter was in her care. I didn't know about it until after the fact and was unsure about the laws at that time so I didn't do anything about it. I really regret that now. But I took her out of that place as soon as I possibly could and she gets to be home with me now. Her home was not appropriate for that many kids.

So what bothers me is a concern for the children. I know that being licensed doesn't necessarily mean better care, because you unlicensed ladies are obviously responsible and caring - but you also make sure to stay within your legal limits. That is the difference. If they feel it is okay to take more kids than they're legally allowed, then what is necessarily keeping them from being irresponsible about things that affect the safety and well being of the children? Do they have proper insurance? Not likely since I know insurance providers don't cover private daycares in Manitoba for more than 4 kids.

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Originally Posted by playfelt

It does almost sound like they have a don't ask/don't tell secret pact of some sort. That still doesn't make it right. I probably would call with the idea of confirming the numbers for care because I was at (and name the park and the time I was there) and it was obvious that several other caregivers at the park had at least whatever number of kids in their care. Then you can thank them very much for confirming the number of children allowed and that that is what you have in your daycare. At least you have given the information to them and really no one can say the call was to get anyone in trouble because nothing about what they will record as the complaint indicates that - it was all about confirming the rules. The fact you dropped the info they would need to find some people not in compliance is well just a bonus.

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The problem is that they won't just send an investigator to the park, I called the other day to ask about it. They need to have a name and address in order to do anything (which I don't have, other than the one woman). Even though I told them they are there every day then won't do anything about it because they have to follow their protocol of sending a letter to their home first asking them to stop. No wonder so many are just doing whatever they want...

My apologies I was actually referring to the 13. Why are you asking us what are thoughts are then? You have obviously made up your mind, call away.

You have mentioned that parents are not concerned about the number of children in care. The provider doesn't seem to be hiding things from her clients so there is not really much for you to do about it. Parents have made the choice to place their children in her care.

Sandbox Sally...your example is very different, you saw a provider neglecting children. Obviously she does not tell clients that she plans to ignore their children and put them in danger. They have not chosen to place their child with her knowing she would put them in harms way.

Also how on earth do you know if there private or not?