Would you terminate

Hi Everyone,

Looking for some advice from providers on whether or not you would terminate care. Some of the basics include: providing care for 2.5 year old twins. They have been with me for 5 months now 3 days per week. Their behaviour is out of control almost every day. Originally Mom said it was separation anxiety, but I do not believe it was that at all. They are very mean to the other children in care, to each other as well as wilfully destructive to the toys in my home. When they are told not to do something or asked to do something they have complete meltdowns, screaming to the point where the girl twin throws up all over my house. Mom, is very difficult to deal with. She blames everything on all the other children and never accepts responsibility for her own children and their behaviours. I have a rule for no outside food/drink yet she shows up 2 out of 3 days with Mcdonalds breakfast for her children or popcorn (which I don't allow at all because the little ones could choke on it). I have addressed this issue with her, as well as sending out a reminder to ALL my daycare families that outside food/drink just causes issues. She chooses to ignore it all and continues to bring it. She blames me and my house and the other children if her children get sick. She will text me saying "who did you let come to daycare sick, my child is sick now" and things along those lines. This morning her children had a complete temper tantrum being dropped off and she said it was because a child was mean to them yesterday. The child she is blaming stuff on wasn't even here yesterday. I'm very frustrated and think termination is pretty much where I am at...what would everyone else do? This was just a brief explanation of her and her children...there is lots more! Thanks in advance to anyone who can advise :)

You could do one of two things. Straight out tell the mom that things need to change. Tell her specifically what needs to be done in order for you to continue care for her children.
Or, you could just terminate them without confronting her again about what is going on. Sounds like you are ready to terminate them anyways.

Whoa nelly. If someone was crying to the point of vommitting then I would have to terminate. That is more than I could deal with....especially because it sounds like it is an ongoing issue along with many other issues.

I think when a family is weighing so heavily on your mind and a constant source of stress that it just isn't worth it. If there are children/families that bother you and stay on your mind even during off hours then it is a sign of trouble and that something is wrong. We have to be able to enjoy what we do or else we will be too frazzled to deal with the other children/parents and our own families.

Well I would term assuming you can either fill the spots quickly or losing the income will not be a financial strain. the next time she shows up at the door with food or drink hand it right back to her and say sorry this is not allowed unless you want to bring enough for everybody. Give her an invoice for the broken toys. you probably don't get paid enough to be abused by the mother let alone deal with the hooligans. As Judy would say ......NEXT.......

I have to agree with Spixie33 ~ this family is causing too much stress and I know your probably thinking about things after daycare hours so this issue is spilling into your family time. You have to be able to enjoy your job ....or we will get too frazzled to deal the daily things in our own lives.
If you can do without the income ...I think you should end care.
Cut your loses and advise them that it's best they find another provider..not an easy thing to do either

Thanks Ladies. Good to know that others think the same way. It would be a good chunk of income gone, but for my sanity and that of the other children I think its a must. Spots fill eventually right :) Not only me, but my husband can't stand them, my 16 year old who helps in the daycare has had enough of them, and my 5 year old cringes when he sees their car pull in the driveway. One parent has even suggested they go, or she may consider taking her own child out as she sees some of their behaviours during drop off. I think this Mom needs a reality check!

Oh, and the vomiting apparently is something she does all the time when she doesn't get what she wants...plus the Mom tells me how abusive she is to her brother and her mother while at home. To the point that Mom is worried about going to sleep in case she does something. Today when she was told no she could not do something she ripped out chunks of her own hair!!! Something more going on that I think Mom needs to address!

Whoa! Definitely terminate them...you don't need to take this! I had a child who was stressing me out as well as her parents and since i terminated her my life has been so peaceful and I am enjoying daycare again...it was so worth the temporary loss of income. And she wasn't nearly as bad as what you are describing!

Problem kids I can usually manage to tame but problem parents are a different issue and if they are totally in denial then they are fueling the problem by believing everything a 2 1/2 year old tells them about their day. I know it means two spaces would be open and you might want to give a warning to the parent of what you are about to do unless whatever list of conditons you wish to place on the parent with the stipulation that this is the last and final warning and any breach of these rules will be immediate that day dismissal. Then you have covered yourself from not needing to give them the notice in you contract and once threatened mom might step up although doubtful. Always fell guilty saying terminate because we know that all that is going to happen is the kids will become some other unsuspecting providers nightmare but. You have given it time, reminded of the rules and still the mom has no respect you can't really expect the kids too either.

When mom is not helping out with the situation at all TERM HER ASS!!!!

As It states in my manual under Guidelines for Parents:

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Respect Others in the Home - Towards all children, other parents and adults on the premises including myself. Be in control of your child (ren) and enforce the House Rules during drop-off and pick-up times.

Respect the Rules in Your Manual - Read your Manual thoroughly and know and respect, and take seriously the contents. Ask if unsure of a policy. Communicate! Pay on time. Drop-off and pick-up on time. Do not linger. Do not bring toys, food, or drink for your child from home unless on special occasion or with permission. Provide supplies in a timely manner - diapers, appropriate spare clothing for the season and medicines/diaper creams. No shoes in the house (beyond the mat at the front door). Upon the third infraction of any guideline, as outlined in the manual, a two-week termination notice will be given.

Respect the Daycare Provider

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You may use this if you wish. I don't put up with other peoples crap. I try to provide a warm, safe, and caring environment for other peoples children. They don't like it - LEAVE!

Thanks so much ladies. :)

Love your attitude Play and Learn. I need to become much 'harder' on the parents. I let them get away with too much and then get walked all over!

whoa.... I wouldn't be able to handle this, vomiting for crying out loud! Hope you can miss the income but I would terminate this family. I have terminated a child because her behavior effected the other kids too much (to a point I couldn't trust her not to hurt other kids) and your story for me would fall into that category too... I wonder if the parent is able to get this behavioral issue under control? it doesn't sound like it and what would the other parents think if they know this is going on? I think this is very tough for you to have to deal with. Good luck!

Holy crap! Crying until vomiting and pulling her own hair out if she doesn't get her own way? I'd be terming that family ASAP! The mother obviously doesn't respect you and she lets her kids rule the world. You need to get rid of them. Their behaviour (mom and kids) is unacceptable!

close your eyes and picture your daycare without them. Think how happy you'll be AND everyone else.
Now what do you think? :p
t e r m i n a t e!

you'll wonder why you questioned it!

They don't come Mondays ever and its a wonderful day :) I dread Tues, Wed, Thurs and the odd Friday when they come. I've sent Mom her final warning letter/email letting her know that the behaviours will no longer be tolerated. Yesterday they told me to f-off because they couldn't run in the house..same rule has been in place since they started in Aug, but apparently yesterday they decided they could...ugh. I have told Mom 2 weeks to change their behaviours or else goodbye!!! Respect is huge in my opinion...from both children and parent. Like someone else said, I can usually tame the child but when the parent destroys is every time they are home with her its a losing battle.

Swearing at me would be the final straw .... I would have their belongings at the door tonight at pickup with a term letter and wish her good luck.... She's going to need it

I just posted on another thread a few minutes ago that I made a rule for myself in my first year in business that if the parents work with me no matter what the issue I will continue to try and try. I tell families this at the interview stage. I learned the hard way as you are learning right now that if the parents don't help you that it is a lost cause.

Children need consistency at home and at daycare with rules, food and sleep expectations and we have to be a TEAM! Period.

You listed a whole lot of problems in your original post and you already addressed all the issues with the parent who is also giving you grief. I agree with the poster that said - close your eyes and imagine your stress-free days without this family. Advertise - interview - NOW! Good luck.

I don't even know where to start..... :ohmy:
Telling you to f-off?? Psychological issues (pulling own hair, causing herself to vomit, and MOM IS AFRAID TO SLEEP?????)? Mom consistently flouting the daycare rules, not to mention generally disrespecting.
I hope you have already written that termination notice, because you know that's what you need to do. If you can't do it for yourself, do it for your kids and the other daycare kids. It's not fair to them to have these little devil minions in their environment!!!
Best of luck!

Who is she? Chucky's sister or what? :laugh:

If anyone tells me to f..off I wouldn't give them two weeks notice to be honest. On that second I will sho them.! Who the hell they think they are? Don't give them 2 weeks. Get rid of them asap. You will feel a lot better.:)

Cocoon

Mom in alberta- I think there are major psychological issues and since my initial education was in counselling I have a good base to think that way. Expressed to Mom that maybe a child psychologist would be a good idea..but she disagrees. Only so much I can do/suggest before you just have to cut losses and walk away. I would hate for the other little ones to pick up on these behaviours and exhibit them. The rest of my group are amazing!

Cocoon, funny you should call her Chucky, her aunt has nicknamed her Sybill (sp) from the movie about the woman with multiple personalities because apparently when she's at the aunt's house she goes from personality to personality and scares them!

NEXT!............... .

Why are you even asking this question?? Now, before you think I am being pushy (I'm not) just hear me out. WHY are you asking if they should stay?? If this were NOT a daycare situation would you allow someone to treat you this way?? Would you allow someone to just come into YOUR home and blatantly disregard your house rules or throw up on your floor "just because"??

I am guessing the answer is a big, fat NO!

Here is the thing with daycare (and anything in life) - YOU teach people how to treat you. YOU are responsible if someone is disrespectful toward you. YOU have to own that.

I know that's a lot to swallow to realize that the way dcmom is acting is really YOUR fault but it is. Sure, we encounter rude and disrespectful and downright crazy dcparents but the difference in blame lies with whether or not they were disrespectful once or repeatedly. EVERY time a dcparent is disrespectful to you after the first time then YOU have to own that. Because if you put your foot down after the first time and make it known you will NOT be treated in this fashion then one of two things will, and should, happen:

1. The straighten up and treat you with the respect you have DEMANDED
OR
2. They leave or get teriminated

YOU have the ability, each and every day, to either have a daycare full or respectful parent or a daycare full of disrespectful parents. The choice is always yours.

Decide today, RIGHT NOW, if YOU are worthy of being respected and act on it.

((and I am not ganging up on you. I say this out of love and caring so that every provider can open their doors each and every morning feeling good about what they do))

Judy, you are ABSOLUTELY right!!! I have adopted that motto in every other aspect of my life that people only treat you the way that you allow them...but when it comes to the daycare kids/parents I always seem to make excuses for their behaviours! Thanks for your post...I'm so glad I found this site and forum :)

Just wanted to update...they are GONE as of next week....I feel sooooooooo much better knowing that its almost over with them...the loss of income for a short time will be worth it! Thanks so much everyone for your advice...this is the first family I have had to terminate!

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Originally Posted by michellesmunchkins

Just wanted to update...they are GONE as of next week....I feel sooooooooo much better knowing that its almost over with them...the loss of income for a short time will be worth it! Thanks so much everyone for your advice...this is the first family I have had to terminate!

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It gets easier after the first one. And once you have terminated a few kids it's not even stressful to terminate them anymore. If anything it is a HUGE stress reliever.

I'm just sorry that it's not sooner for you. Gosh. Good luck! I hope the time flies between now and then!!
And I hope for the kids sake that mom smartens up and gets help for the child instead of putting her head in the sand and making it worse. Poor kids. :(

Atta girl!!! I can almost HEAR your relief in your post.... Yay. :)

I had just one child like this: felt guilty and told her things need to change quick, when they didn`t I had her pay for me to have a one to one with him, and then gave them two weeks notice. It doesn`t just affect you, it affects the other children too. I had one girl putting her dolly in time out and talking to it sternly . . . that was a wake up call for me that ALL of us needed this little one GONE!

NEEEEEEXT

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Originally Posted by michellesmunchkins

...I'm so glad I found this site and forum :)

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Me too. I like that when I get pissed about something there are already 5 providers raving about it. I love this job but when I`m having `one of those days` this site puts the smile back on my face.

i agree with terminating, if you are not getting any assistance from the parents at home to work with you on getting the children settled or behaviour guidance in place, then you are going to be always at a loss on this. and your life is going to be stressful and in disarray, not to mention your other families are going to take notice and therefore your business name jeapordized. its hard to do but be professional and thats all you can do. the children are not the issue, its parenting and parents ways of thinking. in my program, if we are not working together for the best interests of the children, then the parents know of it. some people you can talk to, some you cant, and thats where its rough. be firm with them, clear, strong. i think your reasons are valid. even give her a last chance, explain where you need to be with her, the children, why. if she doesnt respect you, the other families then try not to lose sleep over it, and chalk it up to something that doesn't work. good luck. :)