Do parents really! can not afford our fees?

Maybe some of them but I can tell you not all. I have been contacted by a parent who said "*** this is the amount I can offer as I'm not on higher pay scale". The amount is way less then many day home providers charge in my area.

She send this email using her Iphone! Now, last time(a month ago) I looked at Iphones, they were expensive. $50 per monthly payment. Now, if anybody says that they struggle to make ends I tell them "first start to save money and get rid of your expensive habits like iphone, like shopping(they think buying cheap stuff is not expensive but if you keep buying those cheap stuff which you don't need, it will add up). Anyway, do you really belive parents or anyone really who says they are struggling but they have a nice house, nice car and living a good life? Well I know it is a bit cold for me to say but I don't. :(

I've had parents make 'offers' like I'm up for bartering. I just say 'sorry this is what I charge, and this is why' Then I tell them to go on this website to see if they can find a provider in their price range.

LOL it is funny that she emailed that from her iphone though. She must be so hard done by . . . . maybe she's saving for the iphone 4. That's about a years worth of child care right there.

Gnah. I hate people like this! I can barely afford my cell phone, and it's $30/month! But there's no internet on it, because I don't NEED to be online 24/7!

As DH and I were chatting last night, it's amazing how much we NEED certain things in this era, where when we were growing up there was limited technology. I think some kids (and parents) need to live like they did in the 1920-40's and see how hard done by our past generations were! And to see how easy we have it now!

I never had anyone barter my rates, but I did have someone call an hour before their interview to meet me and say, "I found a better and cheaper daycare than you, so I'm not coming today". I was in shock and pissed off, but after a day or two of fuming, I let it go.

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Originally Posted by Play and Learn

Gnah. I hate people like this! I can barely afford my cell phone, and it's $30/month! But there's no internet on it, because I don't NEED to be online 24/7!

As DH and I were chatting last night, it's amazing how much we NEED certain things in this era, where when we were growing up there was limited technology. I think some kids (and parents) need to live like they did in the 1920-40's and see how hard done by our past generations were! And to see how easy we have it now!

I never had anyone barter my rates, but I did have someone call an hour before their interview to meet me and say, "I found a better and cheaper daycare than you, so I'm not coming today". I was in shock and pissed off, but after a day or two of fuming, I let it go.

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Thats just it maybe you need to menton before they come what are you looking for? Cheap Daycare or Quality care, that would ween out a ton of people!

I've never had anyone try to barter my rates! :blink:
Who knows about the phone ~ could have been a gift/job pays for some or doesn't have a home phone but, anyone who wants to barter your rates is someone who you should just say thank you for your time and best of luck on your search for daycare.
Fingers crossed that you get another interview soon!!

Yeterday after replying with my rates for a 2yr old in cloth diapers and needs to be rocked to sleep still and is f/t, This is the actual reply email I got I'm copy & pasting it - Thanks but currently we pay 25.00 a day. The very max would be 30.00 but there are so many ads that are 25.00 so maybe we will get back to you. Thanks!

:huh: my reply was: Not a problem....according to the site you contacted me with daycarebear.com - in my area, actually within a 5km radius, for f/t under 4 years old, I'm one of the very few who charge under $35 a day. Good luck on your search, feel free to contact me should you change your mind.

:confused: Seriously???.....$35 is for a 'normal' dck, add in all the little extras and it's going to cost more!? I'm not holding my breath but *if* they come back asking for a spot "sorry I'm full"

*************

Now I have a large group of friends and family who are in the new baby-having age and when I told most of them home much I charge they were shocked...then I told them how much a center in my area charges and they flipped! OMG How much?? lol ummm....yeah! Think about it $35 for aprox 9hrs = $3.88 an hour give.me.a.break

Some people are unreasonable when it comes to childcare expenses. They don't want to give up a certain lifestyle and complain if quality childcare interferes with that! I had someone contact me and say: "I have 3 children ages 1,2 and 3 and will not pay more than $20/day" um, are you effing kidding me???? Unfortunately, some see our businesses as an extra money kind of thing instead of a contributing income. Ugh.

Yup - life is about 'priorities' and when I hear people say they cannot 'afford' childcare IMO it is because they do not VALUE having to pay for it and therefore have not made it a PRIORITY in their family budget ... and well my response is 'sorry to hear that I cannot AFFORD to work for anything less than the fees I have posted on my website - if you truly cannot afford childcare you are likely eligible for subsidy so here is the information on where to apply and programs that accept that care model' .... and under my breath I think go bark up that tree cause chances are you already know you are NOT eligible and that by 'societal' standards you CAN afford to pay your own way you have just spent your money on other crap like a high end cellphone and data plan and other poor investments ;)

"I found a better and cheaper daycare than you, so I'm not coming today". How does she know the other day home is better then yours before even meeting you and seeing your day home? Weird!

"Who knows about the phone ~ could have been a gift/job pays for some" I have met and know many people whose phones are bought and paid by their company but never heard a company bought Iphone and give it to their employees. They normally give blackberries. Hubby says he never even heard of any empoyees even managers using an Iphone provided by their work.

And if it was a gift it must be from someone close family or friend and close families and friends would know their finanicial situation and would give something more usefull then an Iphone!

Thats what I think.
Cocoon

Inspired by Reggio, I just loved your above post :) hahahha

Most people don't think twice about giving an exorbitant amount of money to a teenager that is going to watch tv while the kid sleeps so the parents go go out for a night on the town but wants to barter with the person that is going to spend more waking hours with their child, feed them and maybe even teach them something. Go figure :/

ouf you are a little be rough here ladies!

Some people really are struggling.

I don't know about the subsidy in Ontario yet, but do they only evaluate your need on your income or do they include your debts? Because I have a high income, but I have high debts (coming from a time in my life when I wasn't as smart as today!). I would never be able to afford one of you(or me), for my three kids.

Everybody's situation is different. I agree that we spend on needless objects, but I disagree that EVERYBODY is able to afford childcare

I wasn't saying that the iphone was given to this person by work. I was only mentioning that we don't know everyone's situation and yes, some companies do pay for part of the phone bill and it doesn't have to be a blackberry as my last company paid for part of my phone bill.

I totally agree with you that you shouldn't have to barter your fee.
Times are tough and most people are living beyond their means as most of my friends have more than one in childcare and it breaks the bank. Does that mean that we should lower our rates ~ NO as we work hard in our jobs and worth every penny. Having said that I agree with Sarah that everyone is sounding a little harsh as everyone's situation is different. Yes, there are some out there who would put more value on the material things. There are so many people that live beyond their means and if they changed some of their lifestyle then child care might be more affordable. It's a juggling act for many as their monthly bills are credit. In a perfect world.....

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Originally Posted by Sarah

...I don't know about the subsidy in Ontario yet, but do they only evaluate your need on your income or do they include your debts?

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If I remember correctly it is based on 'household income' because they assume based on that income you would have certain 'base expenses' anything else is well 'extra' and not their problem how you figure out to 'afford' it.... in Ontario the cut of for not being 'eligible' for subsidy is a household income of $80,000 a year ... the higher your income the more you have to pay but you would still be 'eligible' for a partial support!

Personally I think that is RIDICULOUS cut off cause IMO if you are earning $80,000 a year there is NO REASON why you cannot afford childcare unless you are CHOOSING to live beyond your means in other areas aka you choose NOT TO MAKE IT A PRIORITY!

My friend was a single mother not receiving any 'support' from the father because he could not be found - left the country - she managed to pay for her childcare earning less than $20,000 a year ... yes she had to have a room mate to help with her rent - not ideal but you do what you have to, yes she had to refrain from eating out and cook on a budget - but they ate 'nutritionally' and had food in their belly, yes they shopped 'used clothes stores' and sewed her own when she could, yes - they had no cable for their TV but she would buy used 'movies' for their old TV to watch together, yes they had no 'phone' but they had nieghbors who would let them borrow one if truly needed, yes she had to be frugal with 'free' kinds of family entertainment - but they were close and happy, yes they relied on public transport for years before she could save up for a car .... she never claimed not to be able to AFFORD childcare because her daughter was her priority and everything else came 'second' .... the problem today is not only that we think we NEED things we do not but we think we are ENTITLED to them!

You bring up a good example Sarah. I understand that you are using any extra money you earn to pay down your debt and that is great. But why should your daycare provider or hair dresser or bus company take a hit in their pocket book so they dont' have enough money just so you can pay down your debt. If your caregiver doesn't earn her required wages her monthly expenses won't be paid either.

Yes there are newly divorced, changes in custody, lost company shares/pension when a business closes, and yes that can cause it to be very tight to make ends meet. That is what subsidy is for but it can be hard to get in some cities depending on how long to be processed, spaces available etc. With three children you might find it is cheaper to have someone coming into your home or making use of more than one person where one works mornings and one afternoons. While we would all agree it is not an ideal daycare arrangement there will always be a need for this type of care for families that are facing less than ideal income restraints.

I think too there will always be this perception that our husbands work to support the family and that we are home anyways earning a bit of pocket money by taking in other people's children - back in the 40's and 50's that might have been true but not in my lifetime. Parents need to realize that just as they go to the office everyday we go to our work in our basement every day and we need our paycheck just as much if not more in some cases since it is so small.

I have a message that I pass on to Parents that comment on my rates....."we all have budgets, I for one clip coupons... You have to choose what you want to spend your money on".if you don't want to spend it on daycare I may not be the provider for you. In my neighborhood daycare rates go from 32 to 52 dollars a day. The care, and quality varies as well. I tell Parents go and see one in each price range and then choose what services and prices you can live with and then go from there. Almost all of them come back.....

As I have said on my first post "some" parents' and people. I don't care how much they earn and I don't ask parents' more if they earn more. My rates are fixed for parents' who are on high income or low income. And I don't ask more when they're promoted or had bonus from work. But if you come to me and say that you can not afford my fees yet have an Iphone and drive a nice car and live in an expensive area then I have problem with that. I don't have a mobile phone since I moved here and It has been 7 months. In the begining I thought it was difficult not have have mobile but then I thought I don't need it yet as I didn't know anyone who could call me except my husband and he can use our landline to call me anyway. We need to ask ourself this question. Do I need it? Can I afford it? So in my case I don't need it so why should I waste $50 every month(thats £2600 per annum!) so that I can show off to friends and family.

To Sarah, my husband earns decent salary as well but he has so many bills to pay and so many debts! At the end of the month he did not had enough money to spend on himself! After we got married I take care of our finance. He used to drive Audi but not anymore cause right now we can not afford Audi! He has a house on high interest and now we are going to sell the house. So that we can save whatever amount we are paying every month. And right now renting is our best option.
I'm putting some money every month aside so that when we have our child we won't struggle and I can pay or buy best for my child/ren in the future.

Cocoon

And as Playfelt suggested, you are better of with a nanny then day home. Families who has more then 1 child better off hiring a nanny as nannies don't charge per child. But again you have to calculate that carefully too. You need to provide lunch for nanny, and heating will be on whole day. Electricity, water etc. But I'm sure hiring a nanny would be your best option.

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Originally Posted by playfelt

But why should your daycare provider or hair dresser or bus company take a hit in their pocket book so they dont' have enough money just so you can pay down your debt. If your caregiver doesn't earn her required wages her monthly expenses won't be paid either.

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I absolutely never said a caregiver should lower her fees to accomodate anybody!

I just said that the post previous to mine were really harsh. I was giving you my exemple. With a husband that makes about 80 000$ a year. We could NOT afford 3 daycares. Not because he doesn't make anough money, because we have too much accumulated debts. We drive a 10 years old car, don't how cell phones, not even a landline since we are using a internet phone, we don't overheat our house, we don't use the car unless necessary, we budget our food, we do some couponning, we got all our kids clothes from friends until last year, we do not drink AT ALL, do not smoke, do not go out... I could go on and on. I go to the air dresser like once a year max. etc....

Just saying that you cannot judge a person that cannot afford a daycare if you don't know that person's situation. And it's not always a question of priorizing...as in my own exemple.

I was a single Mom of 4 children for many years. I was on subsidy and I don't know how I would have survived without it and I feel very bad for people who are struggling to make ends meet.

However, every single family seems to be struggling to make ends meet no matter how much they make because the more you make the more you spend. If you make $80,000/year then you have a bigger house, better furniture, nicer vehicles, but it's still all loans and credit, so you can't win.

I hate the words 'I can't afford that' because I truly believe you afford what you decide you can afford. So my rates are very reasonable and I feel comfortable with the living I'm making even though some of my clients make $80,000/year and I certainly DO NOT! I try not to think about it. But when I see families paying $1000/month for a couple of children for daycare it just blows my mind. I don't know how they do it.

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Originally Posted by Momof4

.... But when I see families paying $1000/month for a couple of children for daycare it just blows my mind. I don't know how they do it.

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Well if you are making a family net income of $80,000 a year your monthly income is over $6500 ... so even a $1000.00 in daycare you still have $5500 a month left for home, food, car, etc. depending on your lifestyle and priorities that is A LOT of $$$.

Now if your household income is only $40000 and your childcare expenses are $1000 a month ya you are only making 3300 a month but still 2300 is still a lot of $$$ for rent / food and so forth if you do not spend on 'frivolous' things you do not NEED ;)

It always amazes to to watch that show til Debt Do Us Part and see how much people spend on STUPID stuff when their income is not enough to support that lifestyle and yet they are 'shocked' when they realize they are spending more than $1500 a month in 'extras' they not only do not NEED and do not even realize they SPENT ... and this show is REALITY for much of society ?????

Oh I love and watch that show! :) One family was making near $150k but they still struggled to make ends and were in dept. BUT they were spending just under $800 a month alone to eat out. At the end they had to sold their house(if i remember correctly and not mixing with other episodes:)) So basically, I don't generally believe when people say "we are struggling"

How can you base your judgement on a TV show? Aren't the TV shows showing you the extremes? You really think THAT is the reality?

Unfortunately it is for many families. Often it is the families that are the most selfish - as in want everything for themselves that are the ones that are trying to shortchange us. The families barely making ends meet are more likely to realize that we don't make a lot of money either and need our pay too which is one of the reasons providers get so annoyed at the requests for a daycare deal.

Have I helped a family out, phased in the fees for a family that had been out of work for a long time and needed to catch up too so they paid the same just less for the first couple months then extra for the next few months till they were up to date then paid the regular amount. But I could afford to do that based on my finances at the time. That is not always possible and guess this is just an issue that bothers providers because too many parents just assume it doesn't matter to us and that we are there to meet their needs. Again back to the who employs, who controls, etc.

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Originally Posted by Sarah

How can you base your judgement on a TV show? Aren't the TV shows showing you the extremes? You really think THAT is the reality?

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Sadly that IS the growing reality - and no I do not base it on a TV show I base it on experience from what I see around me in my neighborhood and in my own FAMILY .... my brother and SIL could be featured on that show and my mother has claimed bankruptcy three times in her live by living beyond her means and than drowning in the debt yet they keep giving her CREDIT again cause they still make 'profit' off her even with her claiming bankruptcy :rolleyes:

I also base my opinion or judgement or whatever you want to call it on the amount of 'commercial debt' available to people - our credit card company and bank keeps trying to UP our line of credit and credit cards to ridiculously HIGH amounts of money that would bankrupt us too if we actually accepted it but there ARE people out there who not only 'accept' those ridiculous credit card limit offers of a money up to $20,000 on a credit card charging 28% interest but $75,000 in lines of credit .... and they tan LIVE OFF their cards and lines of credit with that much debt on them and because the interest is so high on these things that even though they make GOOD money they cannot get ahead.

I base my 'opinion / judgement' on the fact that the popularity of those Instant Loan places popping up on every corner - where they will loan you money against your pay cheque at a cost of like 30% interest or the growing amount of the debt consolation commercials now all over the TV where there are programs, funded by our TAX PAYER DOLLARS BTW, that allow people with 'consumer debt' to create debt repayment plans with their creditors at a fraction of the amount they actual owe basically letting them off the 'hook' for their overspending.

And primarily my judgement that DEBT of this sort is a reality for most of North America is the fact that there are businesses making a profit on those who are 'living beyond their means' ... cause if this was not the REALITY these business would not prosper nor be needed and yet there are more and more of then today than 10 years ago and 20 years ago they were 'non existent'

CONSUMER DEBT is not GOOD DEBT ... it is generally created from buying things you WANT but cannot afford ... consumer debt is generally from eating out, entertainment, buying 'gadgets and electronics', spending more on clothes and jewellery and other THINGS that you do not need but rather THINK we need.

My cousin and her husband could have starred in that Debt to us Part show ... he owned his own business which had revenue in the MILLIONS each year and employed over 50 people and she was a SAHM ... they appeared WEALTHY and he did make good money in his business ... they lived in a 4000 square foot home decorated to the hilt, drove 2 premium $100,000 SUV plus had a third vehicle for their boys to share which was nicer than any vehicle I have every had, they ate out, they traveled as a family, their boys had every gadget and toy out there, my cousin would spend $800 on a PURSE and think she got a DEAL ... when they separated and had to look at their finances to determine who would get what ... they were over a MILLION DOLLARS IN DEBT because they did not OWN their home and at the cost of the thing they never WOULD - their $4000 a month mortgage payment barely covered the INTEREST on the mortgage on that thing - a house where more than 1/2 of it was never used, they did not OWN those cars - another $200,000 in DEBT accumulating on something they did not NEED and depreciated the minute they drove it off the lot ... when they vacationed on the line of credit it went .... they bought EVERYTHING with credit and their credit just kept growing bigger and bigger to the point that even though her husband MADE over $300,000 a year they were SPENDING more than that on DEBT REPAYMENT in INTEREST and not touching the PRINCIPLE ... because yes apparently the more you make the more you 'need' to keep up with the Jones :rolleyes:

They ended up loosing everything they had because of POOR FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT and while a part of me feels sorry for my cousin - there was no one to BLAME but themselves for that ... earning that kind of money for the time that they did they should have been SET for life had they lived modestly within their means and SAVED for a rainy day... but they got GREEDY with material things and ended up loosing it all :(

Far too often people have children and then complain about the cost of everything for them after the fact. People research buying homes and cars far more than they think about the costs of having children. Then they complain afterwards how they can't afford childcare. You had them, pay for them and don't expect discounts for childcare.

In many cases, it's simply people living beyond their means and accumulating debt. I knew of a family who had tons of debt before children and then went on to have 3 kids and then complained how much it cost. People need to start looking at how many kids they can afford to have. For me, I would love to have more children, but I know that financially the ones I have are all that i could provide RESP, daycare, etc for.

I have no sympathy for people who rack up tons of debt because of poor choices they made. And although people may be struggling, I'm positive you go into many of these homes & you'll find big screen t.v.s, expensive electronics etc...people often live beyond their means. In many cases, it's their own fault.

I know it's especially hard for single parents, but it can be done. My mom was a single mom to 3 kids with a low paying job but she never acquired debt and never got any financial assistance from anyone. She set a great example at being self sufficient and living within one's means.

Wow. People have messed up priorities. And WAY too many people live beyond their means. You can't afford daycare? Then do what I did...stay home. Work as a bartender in the evenings after the kids go to bed. You can't afford daycare? If you and your spouse are both working, YEAH you can. You just choose not to.

My husband works a manual labour job. We haven't made over $50k in any given year, ever. We have no car payment. We have crappy cars. But they work, and I'm not trying to pretend I'm someone else based on what I look like in my vehicle. We did not buy a big fancy house that we did not need. We live in a 1400 square foot duplex with a 5 person family. But we live in the city. And we have a blast with the disposible income we have since none of it is going toward paying off debt. We have three flat screen tv's, two laptops, a desktop computer, and seasons passes to our local amusement park. We vacation twice yearly. Our kids have toys and fun and lessons. We enjoy life. And guess what? Not ONE of those things is purchased on credit. We earn the money. We save it. We buy it. No interest. No struggle to pay off that interest ONLY, month after month.

Crazy huh? It's all about money management, and not being naive enough to buy into the debt/keeping up with the jonses trap. So many people are drowning in the debt of trying to pay off monthly interest charges, and never ever is their money going toward the reduction of debt. Gross.

ETA: I am sick to DEATH of people I know saying that they are "broke", when the truth is, they have several thousand dollars in savings. In the past, when I've said I am broke, it meant I can't afford groceries or a tank of gas. For real, parents...figure out the difference between needs and wants.

sent from my iPhone :laugh:

"sent from my iPhone :laugh: " Funny.

I did not believe her at all! Send her an email saying "I'm also struggling to make ends, for that reason I'm sorry I can't reduce my fees" And at the end I put

"Sent from my laptop" I'm sure she got the message! :D

NICE, Cocoon. I like the cutta yer jib. ;)

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Originally Posted by Alphaghetti

NICE, Cocoon. I like the cutta yer jib. ;)

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Alphaghetti, I'm sure you meant good but what is "cutta yer jib" sorry me don't know Canadish :laugh:

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Originally Posted by Cocoon

Alphaghetti, I'm sure you meant good but what is "cutta yer jib" sorry me don't know Canadish :laugh:

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Canadish, that's funny! Alpha is making reference to a sailing term and a jib is a part of a ship. It was definitely a compliment. It means 'I like your style' and I agree!

Oh OK. I knew she meant good :glomp::thumbsup:

She did :)

Hee hee @ the last couple postings.... you girls are funny.

I wish I could double and triple like some of those above comments.
For one; no, I would NOT discount my fees. And if someone is trying to negotiate them one of two things is happening. Either they are BRAND NEW to the daycare search, and have come at it completely unprepared. Tough nuts for you, I say. OR; they are going to be nickel and dimer's. Tough nuts for you, I say again.
My husband works in financial services, and the unfortunate thing is, shows like Til Debt Do Us Part are NOT really the extreme anymore. I agree that in most situations; people choose what they can afford. A good friend of mine complained to me recently that she couldn't afford something and had to borrow from her mother to buy her kids clothes. This is after she drove to my house in a brand new truck (their second, and she's a stay at home mom, who could probably do without her OWN transport), came in with her GIANT Starbucks coffee (and I know it's not a once-in-a-while treat), slipped off her "Ugg" boots (no "knock offs" for her), and proceeded to tell me that she's never going back to work, because she "just doesn't wanna". **sigh** She then took this borrowed money and shopped at WalMart, right? NOOOOO. She went to the mall and HAD to go to Gap/Old Navy,etc.
Please don't get me wrong; I like brand name stuff as much as anyone. (I loves me shoes...) But I CHOSE to have 4 children, and I want them to play sports, etc. If that means that we don't get brand new everything, I am OKAY with that!!! And because I/we CHOSE to have 4 children, that means that like it or not, I better find a way (until the hubby makes me 6 figures or more, lol) to bring some money into this house, or KEEP the money that is coming in already.
I think what we are all trying to say is that, while we certainly have sympathy for those who are genuinely in tough situations; there are waaaaaay too many that have actually caused the "tough" situations for themselves. And yes, it is ALL about prioritizing.

There, I think that's about enough usage of the caps lock button for tonight. Can you tell this is a sore spot with me, lol??

Mom-in-alberta, you have listed an example of the kind of people that make me FURIOUS (note my cap locks, it makes me yell too) when they say I can't afford that. Exactly what I said - we CHOOSE what we can and cannot afford.

I've been on a first name basis with debt all my life and always will be probably but I've never watched that show you ladies mention. Is there anybody who isn't in debt in the civilized world?

Momof4, I was debt free until I've got married:) We(well my husband) have a house so if we sell that one we will be debt free with no house. But we can start saving and can buy another one. I was and am always good with money. I don't even have a credit card. IF I have money in my pocket I will buy if I don't I won't. And also I'm never in desperate need about anything. I shop around and compare prices and when the item is on sale I purchase. For example, I buy toothpaste, toilet rolls, mouth wash etc. whenever they are on sale. I buy them even though I don't need them at that time but I know I will need them so I stock up. That was one example. And I never ever buy or would buy anything to show off people. I don't like to show off and no body needs to know what I have and what I don't have.

I think managing money starts from home and when young. My parents were and are good with their money so all my siblings. Our relatives and neighbours admired them and wondered how can they raise 4 children without breaking the bank? Now we all are studied and holding decent jobs.

We have to be very carefull with our finances and should not mix with what we need and what we can afford. And stay away from the banks! :)

Cocoon

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Originally Posted by Cocoon

Momof4, I was debt free until I've got married:) We(well my husband) have a house so if we sell that one we will be debt free with no house. But we can start saving and can buy another one. I was and am always good with money.

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Me too Cocoon! Both DH and I were debt free, and we choose to be debt free (minus the mortgage on the house) for the rest of our lives. We both came from 'old school' parenting. If you need it, but it; if you want it, you don't buy it!

We do have Credit cards, but pay them off right away. I prefer to have cash on-hand when I do groceries. DH and I make a list each month of items that need to be done in and around our home, and then items that are on our wish list (these might not get done, it all depends on how much is in the bank).

We have set up trust funds for my 4 nephews, so they no longer get 'gifts' from us for Christmas and birthdays, but once they turn 18, and go off to post-secondary school, they will get their trust funds.

As Cocoon stated:

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managing money starts from home and when young.

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and

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We have to be very carefull with our finances and should not mix with what we need and what we can afford.

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I raised 4 children as a single mother, went to college as an adult and accrued student loans that I'm still paying and even though I worked a full-time job and a part-time job it was difficult to pay cash for everything, you know? And my children always thought they had it so bad because they never had everything their richer friends had, good grief! If I had married a great man the way you ladies were lucky enough to do it may have been a different story. It is good to know some people live debt free.

Student loans are an investment so not consumer debt ...I had those too which definitely too a while to pay down ... Just like a mortgage though it was an investment in better Jon prospects later in life ... what sucks is when we invest in education and never work in the field ...I got a second degree after my ECE as a back up plan for when I cannot physically do this however have yet to use it and the requirements for the field I took have changed yet again so likely would have to go back again when if the time comes - in meantime likely think I will do this until I drop dead from exhaustion :rolleyes:

Momof4, I don't think that the people that we are talking about in this thread have circumstances like yours...I am so sorry you had to go it alone and accrue debt, but you DID IT...I applaud you and every woman like you. I very much hope that I did not offend you with what I said. That was not at all my intention.