Vaccinations

This is a super charged topic but wanted to see what everyone's thoughts were on this. This is something that I have in my contract that all children must be up to date on all vaccinations.
I have just had an interview with a family who does not vaccinate. Now after doing some more reading on the subject, a vaccinated child can't catch anything from a child who may get something by not being vaccinated.
Now I'm wondering why I have it in my contract, as it was something I put in due to my own beliefs but then, it's personal choice.
Right? thoughts ladies

Many of the vaccinations do not prevent the child from getting the illness just reduces the severity. For that reason some programs restrict unvaccinated children during an outbreak because it is believed they are more likely to catch the illness, be sicker and more likely to pass it on to the others who will then catch it even though it will me less severe but they will still be out of the program. Whether that logic makes sense or not - well the jury is still out. Some unvaccinated children are the most healthy ones out there but that doesn't mean they won't catch a virus as it passes through.

My kids are all older so most of the vaccinations available now were not available to them or my other daycare kids at the time and there was no increase in any of the diseases they vaccinate against now so I tend to be on the skeptical side as to whether this is a good thing to do or not. I totally leave it up to the parents to make a decision for their own child.

If you are going to accept the new family do you then have to let the other families in your care know about the change in the contract since they signed on fully knowing that all children would be vaccinated. Some may have very definite opinions too. Just something to think about.

I tend to leave some controversal things like this out of my contract so I can decide on a case by case basis. If I have a family come and they are adament one way or the other it can be a issue in the sense of will that family try to influence all future dealings with families.

Basically, your business, your rules. I am not a big vaccinations advocate. I don't ask whether a child has been vaccinated during interviews. I don't care.

Doesn't matter to me either. Its the parents choice in what they believe in. I do ask for a copy of the vaccinations if they have had them, but that's only to keep on record in case their child ever had to be transported to the hospital. I would want the hospital to have ALL the info on the child. My own children are vaccinated, but I have daycare kids who are not. To be honest, the ones who are NOT vaccinated have been the healthiest this year...

Yup mine reads that children need to have immunization records kept up to date or a written record of excemption on file or a letter from Dr outlining a delayed VAX schedule ... this covers all belief systems and if there is an outbreak of something it allows me to quickly work with public health to notify who needs to go into quarantine due to not being vaccinated ... Win win for all ;)

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Originally Posted by Inspired by Reggio

Yup mine reads that children need to have immunization records kept up to date or a written record of excemption on file or a letter from Dr outlining a delayed VAX schedule ... this covers all belief systems and if there is an outbreak of something it allows me to quickly work with public health to notify who needs to go into quarantine due to not being vaccinated ... Win win for all ;)

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Mine is similar in that I would like their record of vaccinations for their health records. Incase of outbreak or transfer of care but that is it! It is 100% up to the parents if they choose to vaccinate or not!

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Originally Posted by Skysue

It is 100% up to the parents if they choose to vaccinate or not!

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I agree, that is not what I'm saying. It is a personal choice for sure!

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Originally Posted by Inspired by Reggio

Yup mine reads that children need to have immunization records kept up to date or a written record of excemption on file or a letter from Dr outlining a delayed VAX schedule ... this covers all belief systems and if there is an outbreak of something it allows me to quickly work with public health to notify who needs to go into quarantine due to not being vaccinated ... Win win for all ;)

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:thumbsup: This is great Reggio! Win win for all. Cool if I borrow your policy!! I wouldn't want to offend anyone with their choice for their kids but this way, I have things covered.

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Originally Posted by jec

:thumbsup: This is great Reggio! Win win for all. Cool if I borrow your policy!! I wouldn't want to offend anyone with their choice for their kids but this way, I have things covered.

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Ya - go ahead I borrowed the concept from centre care practices ;)

My vaccination policy states that all shots must be received on a Friday so the child will be home for the weekend in case of any adverse reactions such as fever. It is also to protect any children in my care who have parents who do not believe in vaccinations and I do have one family like that.

I respect the families decisions but I do insist on knowing whether they are vaxers or not so I can protect their children properly.

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Originally Posted by Momof4

I respect the families decisions but I do insist on knowing whether they are vaxers or not so I can protect their children properly.

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Pardon my own ignorance by this question but protect them how?

Whether or not a parent chooses to vaccinate is completely up to them, it has become a personal choice, and I don't even ask. I used to.
If someone doesn't get their child vaccinated, they have (or should have) done all the research beforehand. They are aware of any possible risks that they are taking.
If someone HAS vaccinated their child, then it is of absolutely no concern to them whether or not others have. They have taken the necessary steps (in their mind) to protect their child. To say that they are at risk being around unvaccinated kids is silly. They could just as easily pick up a virus/illness from the shopping cart at WalMart as they could from being around non-vaxed kids. As playfelt said, vaxed kids still get chicken pox, mumps, etc.
PS- This is coming from a mom whose older 3 kids are all completely up to date on their "needles", but has not yet taken the 6 month old in for hers. I haven't yet decided whether she will not be getting them at all, or whether we are just delaying them.

I agree with Momof4 ... it is important to know who is vaxed and who is a non vaxer within your program so that if you are ever 'exposed' to something while out at a playgroup and so forth you can take the proper steps to notify your clients and ensure that you are following the Public Health guidelines around exclusion with that client!

So for example I remember reading a few years back there was an outbreak of Mumps I believe it was in a school community because of the combination of people who had either not been vaxed at all or the number of people who had not kept up with the 'booster' and it started spreading like wild fire and so to get it under control those who had been exposed and were not up to date with vax had to be quarantined at home until the 'incubation' period had passed with no new cases reported in the schools, daycares, hospitals and so forth.

So in a situation like that we would need to know who was NOT up to date with vaccination so we are not unknowingly taking them out and about in the community through our programs putting pregnant mamas at risk and so forth.


I also get the desire to have those who do vax do it on a Friday or to require an 24-48 hour exclusion after vaxing where they are home for observation because there CAN be deadly allergic reactions to vaccines and I would not want one of those to happen in MY CARE ... so that policy is not only to protect myself but to protect other children from having to ever SEE something like that occur to a peer :(

I totally GET that to vax or not is a VERY personal choice .... however because it is a choice that could negatively impact ANOTHER we need to be careful ... there are new born babes and pregnant mamas out in our communities who could have deadly consequences if any of these major diseases are brought BACK due to lack of immunized population growing again ... IMO we need to make sure we take precautions to protect those people from our choices too ... this is why the public health keeps records of who is immunized and who is not in schools and daycares and so forth so that in an 'outbreak' they can quickly contain it!

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Originally Posted by jec

Pardon my own ignorance by this question but protect them how?

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I want to know if they are vaxers or not because I want to make sure their doctor's appointments for shots are scheduled for Fridays so the parents have them home for the weekend in case they need medication. I won't administer fever meds or allow a child with a high fever to attend daycare.

Also, I have a family in care who do not vax and if another child has just received a Varicella shot for instance and comes to daycare and coughs in the face of the non-vaxed child, is it certain that the cells for Varicella are not contained in the aspiration in that cough? Maybe this little non-vaxed girl will catch Varicella in JK, but as long as she's in my daycare I'm doing all I can to protect her. You see?

I am a mom of 3, and over the years, I have been thinking about the vaccination issue a lot. My first son is up to date (except for boosters if some were due, I have no clue!), my second child is "half" vaccinated. My 4 years old daughter has gotten 1 shot, the first scheduled one. Than this was it for me, my decision to not do vaccines was taken

When I took this decision, I was aware that in the case of a breakdown my kids would be affected more than someone elses vaccinated kid! But as they grow older, the risks are lower, and lower. But if they were going to a daycare, I would like the provider to respect my decision. There is no laws in Canada that forces vaccination.

By not vaccinating my kids, I chose to put them at a higher risk of getting these illnesses, but it is not putting the other kids at a higher risk. The non vaccinated kids are not carriers of the illnesses more then vaccinated ones. In the case of a breackthrough ALL kids will be equally carriers, so isolating the non vaccinated kids is for their protection, not the one of the olders.

My kids have been in contact with chicken pox, never got it except for my vaccinated one! How weird ?! I personnally was vaccinated, a got the whooping cough...

Anyway, I don't want to debate this, I just would love everyone to see that as much as vaccination is a good thing, it is a personnal family choice that does not affect a daycare!

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Originally Posted by Sarah

Anyway, I don't want to debate this, I just would love everyone to see that as much as vaccination is a good thing, it is a personnal family choice that does not affect a daycare!

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I did not bring this topic up for debate however, nothing wrong with a good debate as long as we respect each other by listening instead of being critical.

I disagree that it does not affect a daycare. My responsibility as a daycare provider is to look out for the well being of the children in my care.
I contacted Telehealth and they forwarded me to the county health deptartment -more specific the infectious diseases clinics. As I came to the forum to find out what everyone thought/knew about it could tell me.
This is what I found out ~ which as the debate of if they are good or bad this answer doesn't pick as side as some would say that the health care professionals are wrong. The measles, mumps and rubella (sorry of my spelling) are all live virus that given through the injection, they are not going to get passed on. However, the chicken pox virus does have a slight chance of being passed on to someone who doesn't have the vaccine.
So ...back to where I agree 100% with everyone here that this is a personal choice and not one to be judged as every parent does what they feel is best for their children. For those who choose not to get their children vaccinated, I need to, as a provider, inform those families that children in my care might be getting the vaccination so, if they choose to keep their child home, they can.
Like Reggio said, she found a policy for her that keeps everyone happy, that is what I am trying to do. Find a policy that will allow all families to feel that I am looking out for the well being of all children in my care.

The reason there is a required record of those who are vaccinated is if there is a breakout, according to the sources above, that if say a child around 16-18 months of age to be more speicific with our business instead of the school aged children ~ if they have not recieved the booster, they run the risk of getting infected and passing on the disease and infecting more. So it is to control more of an outbreak. to protect everyone.

For me, I will be allowing any family either vaccinated or not but do require to know when someone has chosen to not get the vaccinations and those who do choose, I am informed of what is being given so I can inform the families who have chosen not to be vaccinated what their child will be around. It again, turns into the parent's of the unvaccinated child decision to pull them from care as it is usually 2-3 days before the body can build up immune to the injection. Again, though, from my sources above, it is only the chicken pox vaccination that runs the risk of passing it on.

Everyone is right, vaccinated or not, your child still runs the risk of getting any of these but- I think again, it's my job to make everyone informed so they again, can choose for their family.

Again, so many different views of this subject...I think it only right to keep everyone informed so they can make the right decsion for their children.
Because their is no definative proof either way...just keeping everyone informed helps families in my mind, make the right choice for them.

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Originally Posted by jec

For me, I will be allowing any family either vaccinated or not but do require to know when someone has chosen to not get the vaccinations and those who do choose, I am informed of what is being given so I can inform the families who have chosen not to be vaccinated what their child will be around. It again, turns into the parent's of the unvaccinated child decision to pull them from care as it is usually 2-3 days before the body can build up immune to the injection. Again, though, from my sources above, it is only the chicken pox vaccination that runs the risk of passing it on.

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Why not just tell everyonein your daycare when someone is vaccinated against varicella, or if there's been an exposure, and just leave it at that? The parents can then be informed, and use this information to decide the next course of action with their child, whether it be to keep them home, or to get them checked out for a potential infection if they're unvaccinated.

There is still no need for a daycare provider to know the vaccination status of their charges, imo.

That is basically what I do in that if there is a chance anyone in the daycare "family" including older siblings have come in contact with anything I spread the word around so we can all be cautious. If a parent feels really concerned because their child has not been vaccinated they have the option to at that point see their doctor immediately to get it done or to take whatever steps they want to.

For me I wondered why I needed at first to know any of this...then one of my friends who is very passionate about not vaccinating her children tell me that she doesnt' believe that is' just one vaccine- the chicken pox that can be transmitted and I should be informing her, if her child was in my care, if there was any vaccines. She doesn't believe that it is just the chicken pox vaccine that can be transmitted.

I"m just trying to come up with something to keep all happy. I had called telehealth to find out why the school system needed to know in the first place why anyone is vaccinated or not.
I thought informing all would just keep the choice that of the parents, which again where the choice is.

Thing is, I have always had in my contract ( due to my own ignorance on the topic) that everyone had to be up to date on vaccines as I thought through my Dr that it was how it had to be.
The parents currently in my care all have their children up to date but bringing a new family is that isn't, I just wanted to word something to make it look as though I was covering all.
ugh ~

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Originally Posted by playfelt

If you are going to accept the new family do you then have to let the other families in your care know about the change in the contract since they signed on fully knowing that all children would be vaccinated. Some may have very definite opinions too. Just something to think about.

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I just wanted to come up with a plan that would cover just this, my own ignorance for putting it in my contract in the first place

We have to be sooooo careful about sharing families information. There is such an onus on keeping private information (including medical info) private these days.
If you are looking to change contract stipulations, then I would do it by giving ALL parents the updated info. With or without an explanation of the "why" behind the change; that is up to you. I would steer clear of mentioning that you are going to be accepting a new family whose children are NOT vaccinated, because clearly everyone will know who that is when they start.
Just keep everything very general when it comes to information.

Agreed mom-in-alberta ... I would approach it that you were just reflecting on the 'future' business needs of your contract and realized it was not inclusive to cover what would happen in a family of non-vaxers came along and you wanted to make sure your contract was reflective of any possible scenario so as a result here is the new wording of this policy.

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Originally Posted by mom-in-alberta

We have to be sooooo careful about sharing families information. There is such an onus on keeping private information (including medical info) private these days.
If you are looking to change contract stipulations, then I would do it by giving ALL parents the updated info. With or without an explanation of the "why" behind the change; that is up to you. I would steer clear of mentioning that you are going to be accepting a new family whose children are NOT vaccinated, because clearly everyone will know who that is when they start.
Just keep everything very general when it comes to information.

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I agree....a very sensitive topic and confidentality is paramount.

Thanks for all the advice ladies

This is the reason that if I make a contract change I have all 5 families resign the contract. I want them all to be exactly the same with everyone following the same rules, paying the same rates, well except my part-time rate is higher.

I did have to explain to my newest family who had scheduled shots for their son that I have a family in care who are non-vaxers and that all of my policies are in place for a reason. That's why I made the Friday for vax shots rule. I told the Dad that I have developed the policies over the years and that different people choose me for different reasons but every policy is important.

But I agree that we should never disclose private information from one family to another. There is no way I'm going to let any other family know which one doesn't vax their child, it's their private personal business. I'm the same way with all info the families tell me.

I, personnally, wouldn't want or feel the need to be informed by my daycare provider that another child is being vaccinated that specific day.

When evaluating a risk, you have to be thinking of all of them. You have to see the big picture there, not only your surrounding.

Everyday, we come in contact with people at work, in the bus, at the coffee shop, at our kids school, through the babysitter that comes home, through her friends, through friends of friends, etc... I think you see what I mean.

There is NO WAY the risk can be lowered enough to be void. So by taking the decision to not vaccinate our kids, we are supposed to know that they WILL be in contact, eventually, with one of those sickness.

This is my personnal view on the subject, but if a daycare provider was to tell me she wanted to know because she wants to nicely inform me, I would disclose the fact that my kids are not vaccinated and I would thank her! I would think it is not necassary, but it does no harm! It is even a nice gesture!

I would not inform my other clients if a child was being vaccinated on any given week - I agree it is none of their business and in our small settings too easy to figure out 'who' was being vaccinated or not. Plus as previous mentioned the risk of passing on something through vaccinations to someone else is VERY VERY rare.

That is not the intent of my policy around ensuring clients are informing ME of vaccinations protocols and updating me on new ones - like Momof4 I feel that I need to know if they have recently received an 'injection' of a vaccine or any other form of medication to be honest specially ones that could have adverse side effects such as vaccines ... I need to be prepared to watch more CLOSELY for those signs if children are going to be in my program after being vaccinated or on a new antibiotic and so forth.

I can also empathize with those who do not want to care for children the proceeding 24 hours of being on a NEW medication or a VACCINE because that is the window that a medical emergency could arise as a result - allergic reaction / adverse side effects.

I also agree that safest place for them to be during that time frame is HOME under close PARENT supervision in case such a medical emergency arises as a result so that they can deal with it best ... while I do recommend vaccination for a Friday for this reason I personally do not have an 'exclusion' period after vaccinations but I do request that parents INFORM me so that I can be prepared for the potential emergency if their child has just been vaccinated.

I also want / need to have a written record of who has been vaccinated or not to be in compliance with Public Health requirements for 'group care settings' should a community outbreak arise and they need to 'notify' families ... this was something that was required of me when I was with an agency and something I have continued even though I am now 'self regulated'.