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Hello everyone,

I have started operating from December 2011 and I found my first client(part time) withing couple of week priory to opening in December. And then another client(part time) and another one again part time. Lately, I have been getting quite a few interest and now I can proudly say that I have a waiting list with 4-5 family waiting for me to contact them.

I currently don't take more then 3 kids as my place is small and I don't want to tire myself cause all my dck are babies or young children.

I have asked parents' who are on my waiting list to see if they would be interested if I take more kids lets say 6 kids with 2 adults(me and one full time helper) and they said they are interested.

We are thinking of moving although nothing certain to a house where there will be more space and a garden that I can use for my day home. I just want to know what are pros and cons of running a day home from house? We currently live in an apartment and except electricity the rest are included in the rent.

IF I employ a staff, will I be responsible for her taxes or I just need to pay her salary and she will take care of the rest? And how much should I be paying for her service? "I'm thinking" of doing this towards the end of this year or beginning of next year the latest. I just want to know whether it's worth it or not. I mean if I'm going to make the same amount of money I'm now making I will not bother. :)

By the way, I own a private day home.

Thank you for your inputs.
Cocoon

I know some people with a 'helper' who in fact do ALL the work and don't get any of the credit and the provider is paying half or more of her income to this wonderful person who isn't making much money at all. It completely baffles me to be honest. If I couldn't cope with all 5 children I think I would find a way to live near a school so I could do before/after care only and have most of my day to myself or only have a few children instead of the allowable 5 children.

I do have a teenager who comes maybe 6-8 days per year on her PD days and in the summer and I pay her $20 for the morning. She thinks she's rich and it helps me for one day. But I wouldn't want somebody around every day.

I thought it was illegal to have more than 5 'paid' kids. I also find that good assistants are hard to come by. Most of them were just an extra pair of eyes while I ran around like a chicken with my head cut off. I have a great one now but I read here a few days ago that you are only allowed to have 5'paid' kids regardless of the number of adults. Now I don't think I can afford her anymore as I can't take on any more children

Cocoon - where do you live? The rules for if this is legal or feasible and what your responsibilities are regarding playing her taxes and so forth vary depending on province?

For example in Ontario - it does not matter how many adults you have a premise operating a private home daycare can only have 5 children plus your own so what you are proposing would not be allowed unless you wanted to be licensed as a 'day nursery' .... which comes with a whack of additional regulations, zoning laws and so forth and they RARELY allow a residential home to be 'licensed' at least in the two regions I have lived in - they want centres to be in buildings that were built and designed specifically for children these days and the cost of building new or renovating to be 'new' again makes it prohibitive for most 'privately funded' persons to afford to do this.

Also in Ontario ... as an employer of an employee in your business you would be responsible to pay at least minimum wage which I believe is now $10.25 an hour PLUS pay the employer portion of EI, CPP and the employer health tax to the CRA and remit the employees portion on their behave. Now SOME employers are able to subcontract someone to work for them and have that person 'submit' both those portions however make sure first hand this allowable by your business AND make sure that your contract with the person CLEARLY STATES that the wage being paid includes both the employer and employee portions of these required remittances and that they are responsible to pay them at tax time because without that clearly defined there is nothing preventing someone from coming back later and saying 'my employer was suppose to remit that and did not' and CRA coming after YOU for it!

This issue comes up a lot in Ottawa as parents and caregivers move back and forth and people talk as we all attend workshops and events here in Ottawa. In Quebec which is just across the river it is legal to have two adults and more kids. Here in Ontario as Reggio said it is not legal to have more kids no matter how many adults you have.

In your case if you feel you need an adult to help so could have your 5 kids then that would be something for you to consider but yes your provincial rules will determine if you can go over your 5 kids in the home.

Ya - I really wish they could come up with a National standard for childcare across Canada - it is frustrating when you live on a 'border town' between Provinces that rules can vary so vastly a few KM difference!

Sorry guys I should have mentioned. I live in Alberta. I find it silly that every province has their own rules. I've read somewhere that private day homes can not take more then 10 kids. I can't find that web site but I'm on it:)

Playfelt, the kids under my care are and will be all small. They will need diaper changing, feeding etc. They are not self sufficient if they were I wouldn't need a helper. So I will definitely need another adult to help me. If I charge the same amount I'm charging now then I will be able to pay my helper a proper salary.

There is a lady used to work for my sister in law and she highly recommends her. We saw her 2 weeks ago and she was looking for a job so she has been since my sister in law closed the clinic. She in fact asked us if we need any help. She has experience in this field too and very loyal so I'm thinking of employing her. But again I'm thinking nothing is sure. I just want to know whether it is worth it or not.

There will be no fiddling with her salary and her taxes and our accountant says that these are all business expenses so we will be showing all those expenses as an expense. :)

Thanks,
Cocoon

Cocoon - I was just discussing this with someone else the other day - here is the website I found for Alberta outlying the following ... so to care for more than 6 children you would have to be licensed as a 'centre' which I am guess is a big ole PITA just like in Ontario and you are likely better off financially to stick with the 6 you are allowed to have in your home by yourself ;)

Quote:

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http://www.southeastalbertacfsa.gov.ab.ca/home/580.cfm
What is a Daycare Centre?

A daycare centre provides developmentally appropriate care for groups of children 0-6 years of age and offers year-round, full-time or part-time daycare. Every daycare centre in Alberta must be licensed or approved by Alberta Children#s Services. The license must be posted in the centre and it means the centre meets minimum standards set by the provincial government. Parents whose children are enrolled in a licensed daycare are eligible to apply for subsidy.

Regulations require all staff provide a criminal record check and an Intervention Check prior to starting employment.

What is a Family Day Home?

A family day home is a private residence that has been screened and approved by an Agency contracted by Alberta Children#s Services. The provincial government sets standards of care to be maintained in all approved family day homes. These standards restrict the number of children in care to no more than six children under the age of 11 years and no more than two children can be under two years of age or three children under the age of three. Parents whose children are enrolled in a family day home are eligible to apply for subsidy.

Standards require a criminal record check and an Intervention Check be provided for all individuals over the age of 18 years residing in the home.

What is Private Babysitting?

A private babysitter is a private residence that independently provides care for children. The maximum number of children to be cared for in a private babysitting arrangement is six children under 11 years of which three children can be under two years of age. Parents are responsible for screening and monitoring of private caregivers. No subsidy is available in private babysitting situations.

When choosing a private care arrangement parents should be allowed to complete a safety check of the home, this includes viewing all rooms in the prospective home and the outdoor play area. Discuss the following:

where children will play and rest:
the daily routine and the activities that will be provided;
the discipline policy;
who will be responsible for providing snacks and lunches;
does the caregiver have a valid first aid certificate in child care;
has the caregiver taken any training in child care;
the emergency evacuation plan.

Parents are encouraged to request both a criminal record check and an Intervention Check for all individuals over the age of 18 years residing in the home they are placing their children. Parents should be able to visit their child unannounced at any time of day. The parent should be permitted to enter the home at drop off and pick-up times.

Find more information by visiting the Children#s Services website: http://www.child.gov.ab.ca/, then selecting Child Care and Staff Qualifications.

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Oh under any circumstances I'm not willing to take more then 6 kids anyway even with help:) As I've said the kids under my care will be all very young and I need extra pair of hands to feed, change etc. them.

Thank you very much for the info. Inspired :)

Apart from the extra bills what else I should be aware of? Can I claim part of my mortgage, insurance and the furniture's(the ones will be used for the day home)? What else I can write off apart from the obvious child care related stuff like arts, crafts etc?

Thanks.

Unless you are taking true babies as in 10 months and under you would be surprised at how independent and self sufficient they can be or could become very quickly. It doesn't matter if they use fingers or a spoon it still takes the same amount of time to cook noodles and serve to 3 or 6. As far as diaper changes go you get very quick at it and in reality I can change all in diapers faster than I can potty train a couple older ones. They will be fine playing on the floor, crawling around with a few toys while you change each one in succession as in do not feel that you must be right there with each child all the time. That truly does the child a disservice on growing up independent.

If you have an assistant lined up then that is good. Your provincial office will have info on how to treat them from an employer-employee standpoint.

If you are concerned about the age mix and work load consider starting with the three little ones and then as they grow a bit (self feed, walk, etc) then add another baby so that eventually you are up to your maximum allowable number of kids but by then you will have the ages spread out so some are one and some are closing in on three. That is pretty much what happens with me in the sense that as kids leave to start school I start new babies in their place and my middle group becomes the big kids and this process happens on a yearly basis pretty much. School in Ontario starts with JK when they are turning 4 so for us all kids are aged 1-3 in our daycares unless we take school age.

They will be 12 months old by the time they start(again if I decide to take on more kids). I belive young kids are more work then the 3 years old ones. The older they get the less they need us. But until then I believe I will need extra help with babies.

When I said feed, I didn't mean cooking for them I meant actual spoon feeding. Otherwise, for me cooking for 3 or 5 doesn't make any difference:)

When they get older then I may not need any help but until then I think I will get someone to help me.

Thanks

I can empathize Cocoon - I prefer to only have one 12 month old at a time ... the rest are older ... so for example my group is currently 11 months, 25 months, 3.5 years, 4.5 years x 2 and a 6 years old alternates with one of the 4.5 year olds.

When I was young and spry and worked in centres I could easily care for multiple infants - heck at certain times of the day you had 7 by yourself back than ... and they were WEE back than too between 17 weeks - 16 months ... only because back than the DNA in Ontario was not so clear about using 2/3 ratio during first two and last two hours of the day or over lunch not being available for THAT age group and our boss was applying it to it ;)

Inspired, can you please tell me what are the house related expenses you are paying? I'm assuming you are running your day home from a house? I rent a flat and everything is inclusive of rent except electiricty. Just trying to find out whether it's worth moving to a house or stay where we are.

Thanks :)

Hmmm .... everyone's might be different 'amount' wise depending on size of your house - a real estate agent should be able to tell you what the average square foot house pays for things in the areas you are looking - when we were looking at houses we had the agent get the current owners to leave samples of their gas / electricity bills so we knew how much they were spending to give us an 'idea' and than we also called the companies and ASKED how much homes in the area of 'x' were averaging bill wise to get a comparison.

We are allowed to write off the following as a 'home owner' ...

% Mortgage INTEREST paid in the year
% of Property Tax paid in the year
% of Natural Gas
% of Electricity and Sewer
% of Hot water heater if you rent it verses 'buy it'
% of Home Owners insurance plus 100% of your insurance ryder for business
% of Household maintenance and repairs to upkeep the house to be 'safe' to do business in

the % you can write off is dependent on the amount of the shared use of home you use for business, the hours a day you are open daily for business and the number of days a year you operate out of the 365 days in the year.

You sound like you are quite the entrepeneur and I really hope you are successful. I'm wondering if you have considered that you might be better off to stay small. Big, big income, big, big taxes! If you have a smaller income you are in a much smaller tax bracket. Just something that occurred to me.

Thank you Inspired. These are the ones I wanted to know.

Momof4, thank you for your input. That is why I wanted to find out whether it's worth me going big. Although, taking care of 6 kids isn't that big as I know many of us already looking after 6 kids anyway. The only difference between my day home and other day homes will be that I will have 6 small kids :)

If I was already living in a house with more space, I wouldn't think twice and at least try. We definitely need more space and once we sell our house then we will be in a better financial position then now which makes me even more brave on taking more kids. I'm nervous though as I don't know what to expect in terms of bills and other stuff hence my post.:)

I understand that big income means big taxes but it is also means big expenses :)

I had an agency before I move to Canada. Run my business successfully on my own for few years. And I'm always good with money.

We had some financial problems soon after we got married but thank god it is getting better. I'm confident that I can do this as long as I study my homework well and find out all the pros and cons.:) Plus I always wanted to do more and grow big.