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Hello,
Just wonder if anyone is thinking of opening a small non-for-profit daycare in GTA, more specifically in York region. If so, please email me as I am interested in partnering.
Or if you have researched and found the idea to be rather challenging, I'd love to hear your comments.
Many thanks!
Hmmm - I personally would do some research for sure into the viability of 'centre based care' at the moment ... from everything I have read in the media and through my professional association is that centres are currently in threat of closing all over the GTA and Ontario for that matter ... despite the demand for actual service ... because the loss of the 4 and 5 year olds to full day kindergarten as put a huge strain on childcare!
I worked for 17 years in the licensed centre environments both in the non for profit model and the privately funded model before choosing to work from home instead when I saw the 'turn' things were taking recently ... IME regardless of the model of non profit or privately funded infant programs COST money to operate in centre model due to the space occupied and the staffing required by the DNA ratios, your toddler programs JUST break even between the space occupied and the staff required and the only place there was PROFIT to cover the operation of offering the first two age groups was in the age group of 3 - 6 year olds which has a higher ratio of adult to children and therefore more 'revenue' from the age group and they use the least amount of 'space' in your program.
With full day early learning in all schools in Ontario by 2105 and the push for the school boards to be offering 'seamless care' to children 4-10 years of age in before and after school programs - there will be NO 4-10 year olds in the centre model - only 0-3 year olds .... challenge being that to stay in the black or just to 'break even' in centre they are either A) going to have to raise fees even higher to cover wages and operational costs or B) get a huge influx of operational grants through government funding that is sustainable and consistent C) recieve a huge increase in available government subsidy to the clients needing service or D) a combination of the above!
Further challenge being that Ontario government is already running in a deficit and has promised no increases in taxes with their budgets - so there is no NEW $$$$ to invest in the 0-3 age groups or new programs for childcare for this 0-3 age groups unless the private sector steps up or they totally revamp the Day Nursery Act to increase ratios for the 0-3 age group which would be a huge step back in the QUALITY of CARE for the 0-3 age groups :(
IMO experience it takes YEARS to actually form a non profit daycare because all the work is generally done in the spare time of a 'volunteer' Executive Board cause they do not get PAID to start these things hence the term 'non profit' ... so from the time you start finding the initial working Executive Board which has to be made up of at least a President, President Elect, Board Chair / Secretary, Treasurer as well as various 'committees' to help those people do the actual WORK of apply for funding and grants, creating your business plan, working with the Ministry of Education licensing division to hirer a Registered Early Childhood Educator they 'approve' of to help you to RUN your actual centre and program and create the policies and procedures with you based on best practice in the field .... cause while the Executive Board of a non profit daycare has 'input' in formulation of bi laws, policy, procedures, job descriptions, operating budget and so forth and they are in charge to hire the RECE and her job performance and firing if need be .... they do not actually RUN the day to day operations of the centre an approved RECE has to do that according to the Day Nursery Act and she reports to the Executive Board on a monthly basis.
Once the initial Board has the centre up and running and open each year that Executive Board puts out a call for 'nominations' for the upcoming board and a new board has to be 'elected' from the membership of the non profit so in this case the 'clients/parents' of the non profit daycare would vote at a meeting to approve the nominations for the next years Board.
Anyway - that is my understanding .... IMO there is a reason why childcare is HARD TO FIND in Ontario ... cause it is not easy to find people willing to do the amount of unpaid volunteer work needed to create a non profit centre in order to get the funding needed to operate childcare centres and well partially cause there is not a hell of a lot of funding out there to find for it anyway so it means finding private sector willing to 'donate' to the cause which is time consuming and hard and well since there is no PROFIT in childcare to make big business want to engage in offering the service they often do not step up to the plate either or they do realize it is costing the money and close shortly afterward ;)
Thanks so much, Inspired by Reggio, for such an informative reply!
Looks like I still have a lot of research to do. I want to go the non-for-profit route because of the government grants/assistances and the ability to be pre-qualified to run a centre in a school (at least that's the case with York public school board).
I had also looked into the for-profit centres. Although the startup process is much simpler, the lease cost is the killer! Unless I own the property, there is very little room left for profitability.
Just curious though, I'd imagine the home daycares would face a lot of the issues that the centre based ones are dealing with (reduced customer base), but just on a much smaller scale?
IMO home daycare is a way more viable option - specially if you have your own children you have to pay someone else to care for if you are in a 'centre' environment. They have more flexibility in ages of the children cared for and therefore generally have no issue with being 'full' because there is still a very high demand for infant and toddler program in most areas - and if you are private verses with an agency you can care for whatever ages you choose and feel comfortable with so could have 5 children under the age of 3 if desired. Home childcare providers have less overhead in offering their service to clients because they are already paying a mortgage payment, utilities and so forth and if you are private you have no middleman in the way of managements driving up the cost of service to the end user - the client ... there is just the one employee - the service provider ... therefore home childcare providers can offer services at a more 'affordable fee' generally $10-20 a day cheaper than 'centre care' while still making a fair wage at the end of the day for themselves because they are investing in their own 'capital' in way of mortgage verses throwing money away on a leased space and they can care for their own children and save childcare fees they would be paying elsewhere and so forth.Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCS
The reality is that the full day early learning program is only posing a challenge to LICENSED model either centres or agency based home childcare model ... in the private self regulated sector home childcare providers can charge fees that the market will bare and arrange their age groupings in whatever manner desired.
So for example in Ontario we can care forFIVE children in our home between the age of 0-10 years of age and can charge whatever the market will bare .... if centres start closing and driving up the DEMAND for childcare in the infant and toddler age groups even higher I could choose to offer a program that is 'small ratio' so lets say a max of THREE children instead of the FIVE, because I personally do not think FIVE children under 3 is ideal, if the demand for that age group is high enough I could charge a higher fee so I still make the same income I would have previously for the 5 kids.
So for example fees normally in my area are $160 x 5 kids =$800 in weekly revenue on average if you are full all the time. I prefer to care for only two children under the age of 2 and the rest to be 3 and over - so if I am loosing my over 3 pool making it harder to find 5 clients and maintaining my income - I could change my program structure to care for 3 children under the age of 3 instead and I could change and adjust my fee structure to charge more for that specialty service ... so a weekly fee of $266 a week for a 'low ratio' program specializing in infant and toddlers to meet the demand for this age group ... even with that huge jump in fees to clients I would still be competitive with AGENCY care in my city which charges between $50-60 a day for infant/toddler care it allowing myself to be a viable business still with same income just without the extra 2 kids over 3 whom I normally care for ;)
The only downside to this is that most clients cannot BUDGET to pay $266 a week for childcare which is why there is such a huge demand for SUBSIDY in the licensed venues because the cost is so HIGH few people can afford the market value and being private clients have no access to subsidy through me.
However the reality is that the 'market value' of centre and agency based care is going to have to RISE the same as the private sector is going to have to rise in order to make up for the loss of the 4-5 year old age groups .... so my $266 would still seem CHEAP if centres and agencies are having to lets guesstimate DOUBLE their infant and toddler fees to keep their business viable ;) The other option is for them to keep fees the same but raise their ratios so that 1 adult would be caring for even more infants or toddlers than they already are ... in which case more clients might be enticed to use home childcare where they can pay the same fee but get a SMALLER ratio with more personalized and home like care being offered ;)
IMO licensed care in Ontario as we know it is on the cusp of collapsing .... without a huge infusion of government investment it cannot continue as is - either fees are going UP to a rate that only the rich will be able to afford it or RATIOS are going to have to increase to more children per adult - but either way the way I see it is - unless they create a 'universal childcare system' where daycare is either free or hugely subsidized or that they change it so you cannot offer care unless you are 'regulated' the change of full day early learning it is a WIN for private home childcare model cause it offers the most flexible ability to 'change' to meet demands of communities ... no red tape to getting yourself up and running ;)
So what 'position' are you hoping to hold in the centre if you were to open a non-profit?Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCS
Thanks again, Inspired by Reggio!
As for what roles I will be taking on, that's a really good question. The answer is that I don't really know:) I obviously will be one of the directors, but I also want to focus on developing the business. Given I am not an ECE, I would have to hire a supervisor who will then manage the day to day operations.
Given all that's going on, I am starting to wonder if a half-day nursery may be another option. I hadn't initially considered it simply because I know there is greater demand for full day care since most people work. Looks like I may have to reconsider my options.
Ya IME a single location non profit usually only has the one RECE required by the Ministry sitting in the PAID role running the centre .... the Executive Board is all UNPAID VOLUNTEER positions ... there are just not enough 'funds' to have too many extra 'management positions' .... so for example in the average centre if it were licensed for 20 infants, 15 toddlers and 24 preschoolers and a B&A program for 15 ... so total of 74 spaces it would have 11 front line staff, maybe 1 support staff to help with covering lunches and end of day ratios, 1 cook and the cleaners .... and typically only ONE supervisor/director whose job was job it was to manage all that .... some centres that are 'lucky' to have wiggle room in their revenue might hirer someone as an 'assistant supervisor' to help the supervisor/director however the position would be dual they would help in the office AND work in the program part time likely covering lunches and so forth.
This organization might be a good one to get some research from on the pros and cons to doing this and everything you need to know if you want to be a success ... the Association of Day Care Operators Ontario which is made up of both private and non profit agencies who network together around issues.
I have been out of the 'centre' venue for over 5 years know and my opinions are based solely on my own experience before that and well just on what I am reading and hearing through the grapevine ... this organization below is made up of those still IN the field and advocating for keeping viable childcare options and would know the ins and outs of start up better than I ... last centre I helped to open was in 2002 and the industry is forever changing with its challenges and funding availability ;)
http://www.adco-o.on.ca/
Definitely make sure that you've done a lot of research ... I attempted to do what you are doing back in 1999 and well I just found it overwhelming trying to hurdle all the red tape of forming a non profit and than the idea that the Executive Board in the end could choose to hire someone else to actually RUN it on me turned me off ... I ended up going to work for a 'privately funded' model for several years and helped them to get two locations up and running before I realized that there truly is NO PROFIT in childcare except on the backs of the front line staff and felt like I was selling my soul ... I returned to the non profit model for a while and than realized that many of the bureaucratic rules of the DNA impede offering a truly emergent child focused curriculum and being HOME is the best of both worlds for me - I am my own boss and I have the flexibility in my program to truly follow the children's lead in curriculum!
If you want to go the nursery school model you can still do that from your home. I know a lady that offered half day care with the option of 2, 3 or 5 mornings, 3 or 5 afternoons. She offered an early start and a later than school day pickup. She served a large snack but no lunch. She was actually full but it was also back when junior kindergarten wasn't available in all schools so that age group was her focus.
Another lady that did this was in an area that had full day but alternate day JK/SK to eliminate the need for noon hour school buses. She was able to sign up enough kids to have them on the alternate days so had two groups of kids that came with the understanding there would be no care on PD or school holidays and parents should make arrangements for camps etc.
You might be able to tap into the homeschool market with the idea of offering a group social program with lots of music, art, games but they would not be looking to pay a lot for the service since they do create their own programs amongst themselves.
You might find a church is interested in letting you run a program out of their facility or find a church that has a program that is looking for someone else to help.
Home daycare isn't an option for me, unfortunately. My husband doesn't like the idea and I'd prefer to separate business from personal life.
Church sounds like a good idea though. Just wondering if some parents may consider it isn't professional enough? I recall seeing some comments like this before.
One thing I am not sure with the half-day nursery is that who will be attending. I'd imagine if the parents are working full time, they then need full-time care. If a parent is staying at home, how often will he/she need part time care? I understand the socialization aspect but what's the norm? Two half day a week?
One thing I like about half-day nursery is that it doesn't require outdoor space which means it's easier to find a suitable location. I have been looking for a location for a while now and it's soooo hard to find something with an outdoor play area, no to mention in the more ideal community. Not easy:(
Ya finding locations are hard - in addition to enough space for the daycare itself you have to look at parking for drop off and pick up and that the area is zoned for the amount of traffic you are proposing ... aka a small 'nursery school program' style with 16 is easier to find space than a normal size full day daycentre that has upwards of 75 children enrolled and needs outdoor space, parking for staff and clients and so forth.
I worked in a centre that was in the church - it worked very well set up wise and the rent was reasonable - however we had an entire 3000 square foot basement of the church- but A) it was half above ground and 1/2 'basement' which allowed for lots of natural lighting so it did not feel like a basement B) it was dedicated space - we did not share it with anyone except the kitchen area which was so huge there was enough room and storage for us to have our own space and just 'lock' the cupboards and fridge / freezer C) 3000 square feet is a nice fair size allowing a group size of 15 toddlers, 32 preschoolers divided into two classrooms of 16 and 15 before/after school kids and a summer program to be run out of one room that was set up as a 'gym
so when it was not in use it offered up a indoor 'gym' space for the other kids and the games and equipment the school agers used was kept in locked cupboards.
The challenge with a church is they offer you a SHARED space which has to be torn down every Friday so it can be used for 'Sunday school' or what not....cause that limits what you can 'offer' as well as I know from peers experience over time staff 'burn out' with the repetitive having to tear down their program every Friday and overtime they put up less 'decorations', they bring less 'out' cause if just needs to get put back in storage and so forth ... and yes it ends up not being as professional a program as a result :(
IME Nursery school programs generally offer the option of 5 mornings a week, 3 fixed mornings a week M/W/F or 2 mornings fixed mornings a week T/Th .... back in the day they were only for 2 1/2 years of age through to 5 years of age to help prepare kids for school .... however they have evolved to offer toddler programs for the 18 month - 30 month age group as well as long as the space offers 'washroom facilities that have change table' ... the two age groups must be kept separate though....so depending on your space you could do something like a toddler group of 10 and a preschool group of 16.
Sadly there is nothing 'easy' about opening a childcare program .... if it were easy and profitable there would be a CHILDCARE CENTRE on EVERY CORNER instead of Timmies ;)
Instead expect lots of red tape and hoop jumping as you navigate the Day Nursery Act, City Bilaws around things like accessibility and fire exits for your potential space, Public Health requirements on washrooms, kitchen size and location and sink space and so forth! Expect LOTS AND LOTS of unpaid hours of work doing research and scouting out funding and so forth and even if you do get it up and running expect continual long hours ... when I worked in administration in NEW centres I worked 60-80 hours a week EASY trying to get all my tasks done because there is always 'emergencies' that come up in program where staff, clients or children need you that take you away from the paperwork and you end up doing that 'after centre hours' to get it done - cause the required paperwork in centre care is BRUTAL and leading a childcare centre is VERY hard work that is emotionally draining and in the beginning while you work out the bumps of getting your program running smoothly you can be expecting to be dealing with conflict with clients, with staff and with children as you all learn what works and what does not work for your 'group' .... and even once you get a smooth groove going - working in childcare on the front line is HARD even in an awesome centre - it is physically and emotionally demanding and some staff are just not cut out for it and therefore staff turn over in centres is often high ... so you spend a lot of time in administrative role recruiting new staff and if you cannot FIND any before the staff leave you end up in RATIO and doing your job 'after hours' and just a heads up that there is a extreme shortage of RECE at the moment as many qualified and experienced RECE are leaving centre care to take up the something like 3000 new positions in the Full Day Early Learning Programs ... which pay twice the wage and you only have to work 10 months a year so hard to compete with;)
I am not trying to 'discourage' you just wanting to make sure you go into this with eyes WIDE OPEN about what to expect ... if you can get in touch with someone from ADCO and have a heart to heart it might really help ensure you know exactly what to expect about the pros and cons of the childcare industry!
23 years ago when I got into the field it was VERY different experience to what centres experience today ... for the first 10 plus years of my career the worse challenges I faced were dealing with illness of children while in care and the ODD biting or pushing faze ... childhood has CHANGED over the past two decades .... families are more stressed and there is more 'families in crisis' between poverty, abuse, illness, separation/divorce plus there is huge increases in mental health issues younger and younger which creates challenges and stress on the front line and so forth trying to support children in group care who have severe aggression or other challenges that put the rest of the group at 'risk' sometimes and well there is a FINE balance in centre care between not discriminating on a child or family based on disability or mental health issues so having to TRY to keep this kids in care and the LIABILITY of keeping the other children safe from harm in care as well.
I think sometimes when we consider going into this field we make the choice based on the JOY of childhood that WE remember from our youth .... and while there are still children where this is the norm .... on average in a centre care environment of 24 children you can be expecting in every group of children to have at least 3 children who are 'in crisis' and are a challenge to care for as a result and well in reality they often SUCK THE JOY out of the program for everyone else unless you have A LOT OF SUPPORT in that classroom to help them! Those averages will likely increase depending on the geographical area you serve .... I worked in a downtown daycare in my last city before moving were the average was we had 21 children in crisis and 3 children living a 'normal happy well adjusted' childhood - it was emotionally draining to say the least!
My suggestion would be, if you have not already done so, is to spend some time in a variety of different centres in the GTA to get a FEEL for the day in the life of an RECE or an Administrative person trials and tribulations .... I say this because every year colleges enroll about 100 ECE students thinking they want to go into this field and by the end of 2nd year on average about 40 will actually graduate the other half drop out or switch programs and of the 40 who graduate only 1/2 of those on average actually go on to WORK in front line positions - the others use their degree as a stepping stone to other positions working with children but not 'in daycare' .... hence the extreme shortage of ECE for recruiting into daycare centres!
I am not sure about your finances - but if you are really serious about this option what about getting a new property that allows for a house and a separate home based daycare to be run out of it? I have many peers who have a 'dedicated space' for their home based business ... they sought out properties that had either a free standing apartment in the basement OR had a nanny flat where the laundry/furnace and so forth are still 'shared' but at the end of the day they can close the door to their business and commute upstairs to home?Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCS
This solution allows all the financial PERKS of being a home based business - instead of paying 'rent' out of your revenue you get to write off a portion of your mortgage which you are already paying anyway - lowering your taxable income? Plus you do not have to worry about nearly the amount of red tape or employees and all the other stress that comes from operating a centre?
Honestly - I work less hours now cause I do not have to 'commute' to work so while I am open 10 hours a day I am not spending an hour driving daily. Plus with the advantage of being able to write off a portion of my mortgage and property taxes and so forth while on paper it seems like I make LESS money I actually have more $$ in my pocket at the end of the tax year than I did in a centre ... the government gets less of my hard earned money in 'taxes' and I get to pay off my mortgage faster as a result creating equity for my retirement ;)
Just food for thought about some of the many perks of 'home based programs' that your spouse might not have considered ;)
You said it write. The centres do impede our ability to truly give the children a responsive programme that they could lead the activities. This is one of the reasons why I will no longer work for another centre. Too much restraints in terms of time. I was also sick of dealing with some gossipy women. Too much stress overall. Whereas being at home caring for my children is best for my family. Thanks for being honest.
Connect you were asking in another post about working with an agency. Remember that while you will get the support to get your paperwork in order, maybe get some clients through them and a bit of resource help that you will also have to endure the down side of the agency. They will monitor everything you do, make comments that aren't always constructive and in general control your day in many cases similar to the centres. Your menu must meet their criteria for example and that is up to your home visitor to determine. I got so frustrated with my worker at one point over menu that I copied the menu from my local daycare centre they had posted on their website for the month, submitted that as my own and she failed it, lol. I started working on getting myself out from under their control.
I would do some community research, perhaps open the phonebook and cold call people asking if they feel there is a need for a commercial daycare centre that is subject to random inspections and is government licensed...offering subsidy. I know in our community we have a lot of dayhome's but we're the only daycare centre. Some people prefer having their children in dayhomes, some prefer daycare centre's - everyone has there own reasons and there own preferance. As for non-profit, we looked into this so we could access funding but, in the end, non-profit is a lot of work and you need to create a board that meets every few months and you need to disclose all financials, openly. Also, you could never sell a non-proft organziation (because no one really "owns it".)
As for the church: I also run a half day Preschool out of a church and while it's great for the Preschool, I would not operate a full child care centre there. The church is shared space ie. funerals, groups, events and a lot of people coming & going.
I had looked into the option of adding a separate building on a property. Most of the towns in York region don't allow that. And even if they allow it, a property that will accommodate this setup will be at least $1.2M:ohmy: So it's out of question for us. I had also considered a house with walkout basement so that the basement can be a dedicated space, but hubby doesn't like to lose his "man cave" unless he have can his own place/building. So we are back to square one:(Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspired by Reggio
So I am pretty much back to the commercial plazas and they are just so expensive! That's one of the biggest reasons why I am thinking half-day nursery. No outdoor play area required! I am hoping to find something right next to a new community as typically people moving into a new community are younger couples with little kids.
Since I am in the greater Toronto area, there are tons of daycare centres. I had looked into an existing daycare in Mississauga, a city west of Toronto. Within 3KM radius, there are 22 daycares. 22! I don't know if the local population even supports this many.Quote:
Originally Posted by WAHM
At the same, I know cheaper daycares are still largely in demand. The biggest non for profit centre in my town has a waiting list of more than 100 children! But they have their own property and hence can afford to charge less than the ones in the commercial buildings.
I was once told "there isn't any bad location, just bad management". I don't 100% agree, but I guess if the fee is low enough, there will be demand.