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How many children under the age of two is too many?
I had a great intervew wth a provider but if I go with her she will have two babies under a year, two under 16 months plus a 2.5 year old, she will also have a 16 monthd old starting in the fall. That seems like a lot of really young kids to me...opinions?
So she will have:
2 less than a year
2 between 1 year and 16 months
1 preschooler
PLUS a 16 month old in the fall? Are any her own children?
I think that everyone has their own comfort zone. For myself, I restrict myself to 3 under 3 because I know that's where my comfort zone is at the moment. However, that is only right now, while I've got two infants. When those infants are toddlers, I could easily handle 5 toddlers/preschoolers.
Is it possible to sit in on her care for an hour? The children won't be as behaved as they are when there aren't strangers present, but it could give you an idea of how she handles her time with all those young children.
All the best,
Emily
I only care for infants and toddlers and love it that way. The playroom is like a giant playpen in the sense that there is nothing in there that the toddlers can't have such as craft supplies, small lego, barbie doll accesories, etc. The group learns together and is for the most part on the same schedule. No one is getting set to the side so the caregiver can concentrate on the other age group such as the infants confined to highchairs so the preschoolers can do a craft or the preschoolers left to entertain themselves so the caregiver can cuddle wth the baby.
If I was to be cautious about anything it would be the two under a year depending on how young they are. If the caregiver has children of her own that are close in age or many years of experience then she has likely had a similar scenerio before and knows how to make it work.
As for the 16 month old in the Fall, don't forget that all of the children currently in care will be 6 months older.
There are mothers that have trouble handling their one baby or a baby and toddler and their are mothers that have 5-6 kids and manage just fine. There are caregivers with the same qualities too. Go with what you think of the caregiver. Did she seem flustered, overwhelmed or the environment seem comfusing? Did she seem like she just naturally belonged in the setting? It isn't so much about the age of the children as it is the attitude and abilities of the caregiver. Children close in age learn and thrive off of each other and it is easier than with a spread out age range.
I only care for infants and toddlers aswell, my only rule is that I only care for one "non-walker" at a time. I think that every provider has their age preferences. I for one find that it is easier careing for a closer age group that way our activities can be tailored to their needs. I think that playfelt hit the nail on the head when she said...
It isn't so much about the age of the children as it is the attitude and abilities of the caregiver.
and...
Children close in age learn and thrive off of each other and it is easier than with a spread out age range.
A few years ago I had a group of 5 children between the ages of 11 months - 15 months. It was the best group of kiddies I have had. They were all basically in the same developmental stage, they played well together, they grew up together etc. The only problem I had was it was a bit hard on my back lifting them in and out of the play pens.
In the fall (unless there are changes) my group will be a just turned 3yr old, 2 1/2 yr old, 17 month old, 12 month old, and an 11 month old. Like playfelt I only accept infant/toddlers.
My daycare isn't set up like a large play pen, but I love the description, lol. Instead I have separate rooms that are all connected in an L shape with half walls, for different skills or ages. I have 3 main rooms to my daycare, the gross motor area for running, jumping, dancing, riding toys, the basketball net etc, a fine motor area for more sit down play, playing with the trucks, the house, the dramatic centre, duplo, etc. I also have the learning room which is more geared towards toddlers and preschoolers. It is their special area they can go to play with smaller toys, the rice table, felt stories, colour, read books, etc. Maybe the caregivers set up might help dictate what age group or groups would work best.
I just know for me, I would rather have 5 infants or 5 toddlers or 5 preschoolers vs having a mixed aged group. For whatever reason I don't work well with a mixed age group.
Two of the children are her own - the youngest and the oldest. I felt she is very capable - an RECE with a lot of experience and two years of working with high needs kids. Her set-up was awesome (like the giant playpen described by another poster). I really liked her it just seemed like she had a lot of small kids starting up (she's just starting her own daycare).Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilys4Guppies
Sounds like she's got a good handle on her situation then! Experience, a diploma, and a great setup sound wonderful!
Are you in Ontario? The law here allows her to watch up to 5 children, of any age, and does not include her own children.
In BC a licensed in home day care (a caregiver without an ECE diploma) may only have 7 children present at any one time. Only 4 under 4 years, this includes only 2 under 2 yr old and the other 2 over 24 months. If you have 1 under 1 year old you may only have 3 under 4 years old (includes the 1 under 12 months) and the other4 children have to be over 48 months.
If you have your ECE diploma you may have 8 children with the ages a little more flexible.
A caregiver that is not licensed with the Ministry (Provincial) may only care for 2 children that are not theirs or 3 if 2 are siblings.
Oh, I wish Ontario would impliment having 8 children with ECE!!!! I would love to have 8 children in care, actually even just 7 would be perfect :) I think I miss when my girls were part of the daycare because 5 just seems so boring (else when they are settling into daycare and some can be quite challenging).
I think I would go insane with 8 kids!!!! lol If we could have an assistant, then I would think about it....Quote:
Originally Posted by Tot-Time
I obviously don't do it for the money, but maybe would just have before and after school kids - cause that would be perfect!
I am definitely not normal Andrea :)
The more kids I have the happier I am, I am weird. I have programming but I find it so boring with just 5 kiddies because usually 1 or 2 of them are not ready for programming and with 3 you can't do any big group activities such as parachute play, duck duck goose, etc. That is where play dates were always fun, because 1 caregiver could run activities while 1 kept an eye on the little kids.
Having a double daycare would be so nice!!!!! I would love to have an assistant. I know from friends it isn't always fun, there are headaches to having an assistant, right now for me the grass is so much greener on the other side :)
I would find an assistant so much easier at times; but the thing the assistant would have to realize is that it's still a business, and I am the boss of that business - so ultimately, I would be making all of the final decisions. It's just like being a head-teacher of a classroom in a daycare!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tot-Time
Some days I miss being a nanny - you get to go on play dates!
Hum ... wouldn't Nannies still fall under the DNA in regards to play dates? Meaning the nanny would have to either ensure there were under 5 children under the age of 10 on the premises or have play dates with Moms vs caregivers?
Nannies
I don't think so. We (three school-aged boys) used to go to the parks (social area). Every now and then the kids would have friends over - so I would sometimes have three to four 10 & 11 year old, two 7 year olds, and one or two 4 year olds. It might be different for if you are caring for younger children. I never thought to check the DNA for nannies. I had a job offer for 4 girls under the age of 3 - turned it down for the 3 boys as I didn't want to drive the kids around!
As the mom to four kids I always had 5 daycare so 9 kids was the norm. And for a few summers I had two kids over 10 that were siblings of kids in care. I just considered it normal. It is amazing that it doesn't seem like all that much more work since you are doing most of it anyways. With that many there would be age restrictions so I didn't have 9 in diapers at a time - just 6.
I asked the Prov. about nannies and the explanation I got was essentially, "if the caregiver is paid to care for the children, like a nanny, she is not allowed to have playdates (over 5 children...)" In short, the same rules apply to nannies, as paid home child care providers. At first they told me it included parents too!...but they changed it about a month later (Sept. 2010) and started telling us that parents could bring children to visit or for picking up another of their children, but NOT paid care-givers.
When they changed the rules to not include parents does that just apply to dropping off or picking up a sibling or coming to visit for an interview or integration as in a one time or two thing or is it ok for them to come regularly. Example then if you wanted an assistant the ideal person would be an immigrant with a child that wanted to learn English and they would come and help out with even the housework while their child joined the group. So does this mean since the mom is on sight you could have 6 children since only 5 are daycare. Another one of those scenerios that needs to be specifically spelled out. I could so see myself doing that to get some household help.
Yes Sharon ... as long as the mom of the child is still on the premises you are allowed to go over in numbers ;) According to Doreen.
It also includes, drop off and pick ups (because many pick ups have a younger or older sibling), interviews, and Mommy and Me visits.
Basically as long as the parent is present you can have as many Moms and Tots as you want, providing you aren't providing the care (paid or not) for more than 5 children.
I would want a permanent situation like a parent assistant spelled out and not just assumed since the ministry's yes might have been based on the scenerio of occassionally. But worth looking into.
I agree. So many things seem to get redefined based on some formula that we do not know. It is best to play it safe. If you have family or friends in other cities, who also do home child care, ask them to call their officers, and you call yours. Compare notes....then you might be safe! I know it sounds weird but it is true! I had my sister call her regional rep. and she was told her daughter could visit with her children, bringing the number to 8, but she shouldn't come too often! What the heck is too often!!!
In Ontario you are not allowed to have more than 5 children in your care no matter how many adults you have in the house. I can have 4 adults in the house but i am still only allowed to have 5 kids in my care at one time. It says so in black and white in the nursaries act.
So my point is anyone who has an "assistant" in ontario so they can take on more kids is definetly breaking the law
Greenborodaycare ~ yes the Ontario DNA is black and white with only allowed 5 children in your care under the age of 10. A provider can have as many children as they feel comfortable with that are 10 and above.
What about people who are licensed and have an assistant? are they allowed more children?
I had a lady call me for an interview saying that she feels her child is not getting enough individual attention in his current daycare because between the provider and her assistant there are 12 kids that they take care of.
I have no idea how many were their own kids but it just seemed to me that it was not a very good situation. I was almost tempted to tell her that this may not even be legal and that she should perhaps investigate further but I just wished her the best in her search since I could not accommodate her needs.
It still bothers me weeks later. I don't want to cause issues for someone and I have no idea if the care situation she had was licensed or not but it did make me curious on whether a licensed provider would be allowed an assistant and therefore more kids
Spixie, here in Ontario, it does not matter how many adults are present whether they are paid assistants or not. You could theoretically have three paid daycare assistants, but that does not change the amount of children you can have. The rule is five children under the age of ten, no matter how many adults are there, but this does not include your own children.
greenboro, I think the other two women were talking about how they wished that Ontario would change its law to include 8 children if you have your ECE designation, and then they were discussing this scenario theoretically, and that is how the issue of assistants came up. I think everyone that posts on this forum follows the regulations of the Daycare Nurseries Act.
In Ontario no it doesn't matter if you have an assistant are licensed or not it is still 5 children. Across the river from us in Quebec this would be legal. However, there may be an Ontario loophole. IF the assistant is a mother bringing her own children to the daycare then they don't count in the five children or so we have been told in the latest interpretations of the guidelines. However, coming for a visit on a daily basis and benefiting from the business is a totally different thing. So a mom with 4 kids of her own plus her 5 daycare children is legal. If the visiting mom had 3 kids that would make 12 kids.
No child ever really gets individual attention in a daycare setting because the caregiver must be with and aware of what everyone else is doing. Parents that want their child to be the centre of attention at daycare should either stay home themselves or hire a nanny that can devote the time to just the one child. It is hard for a parent with just one child to imagine how to extend themselves to multiple children until they actually do it. When their child has siblings they will experience the same issues as in daycare - waiting their turn, doing things for themselves, relying on themselves or peers for entertainment and not being told how to play by the adult.