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Hello everyone.
Two of my part time clients had asked me if I could have their kids one more day. One is for temp. The other one is permanently. I don't want to take more then 3 kids right now as I don't have a big place and I live in an apartment but I can manage for one day with help. Now my question is how much to pay?
I live in Calgary and I only need help for couple of hours in the morning.
Thanks in advance.
The rate for my province is $10/hr
My cousin is in school for ECE and she relieves me for doctor's appointments, school appointments etc. I pay her $12/hr.
I'm in Calgary and I start at $11.00/hr for the first 3 mths, then it goes up to $12.50 if I feel the person/worker is worth the investment and I want them to continue working for me. Most are great, but once in a while you get someone questionable so it makes me feel better to know that I didn't invest all my money right away. But you also have to take into account the hours you are providing. If you are expecting someone good for only 2 hrs per week, then your pay should reflect that cause even if you're charging them $12.50. that only makes for $25/ week for them to take the time to come to your place and work. Which to most people is not worth it. So in your case I would either offer more days or pay at least $15 to make it sound desirable. I always try to view it from a worker's perspective and ask myself, if it was me, would this make sense for me? And personally, I would probably take a job that pays less but gives more hours through which I would make more money at the end of the day. Just thought I7d put it out there as something to consider.
I was wondering about this the other day as well. I'm not if it's done but I was thinking in my area there is the Durham College where a LOT of people do their ECE. Do they need volenteer hours? Like how high school kids need in order to graduate?
I'd be interested in finding that out...maybe not for free but at a lower rate. I'm trying to plan out my options for when (God willing) I'd be on mat leave with #2. I'm a planner....what can I say? LOL
Thank you girls. Day home Mamma, I can see you are also from Calgary. As you said it is difficult to find a good helper. Where did you found yours? If you dont mind me asking? If I find a good helper then I might have her for 5 days a week. In this case how much should I offer or maybe ask her how much she is expecting to be paid?
Thanks.
I live in an apartment and have 5 children here almost every day and it isn't too much once you get accustomed to it. Having 5 isn't that different from having 3 if they are all well-behaved children who follow your rules with great parents. Luckily, that's what I have going on right now and I definitely count my blessings.
I do have a high school student who comes for the morning on her PD days and a couple times a month in the summer. I pay her $20 for 4 hours which is horrible I know, but she's 13 and she thinks it's great. I would not want to have a full time helper because she would just be in my way and I would not want to give all my income away like that.
Just my opinion.
I had a high school student that was doing coop and needed a placement so she was with me a half day for an entire school semester and it worked great. I had to fill out a few progress forms for her and track attendance but nothing major and no costs involved so free labour to me.
I also wanted to mention that even if you have a helper you can't let her be responsible or take responsibility for anything really. The children are being left in your care at your dayhome and you will ultimately be responsible for everything. Even when my high school helper is here I never take my eyes off the children but it's wonderful to have her help.
There is somebody in our city who has a helper and she is always blaming her when things go wrong and saying she 'dropped the ball'. I just think that's so wrong.
Momof4, I live in a two bedroom top floor apartment. I wish it was 3 bedroom. How do you arrange sleeping area? Currently, 2 of my dck sleep in one room and another one sleeps in my bedroom.
My dck's are all under 2 years so if I take the fourth child it will be very difficult for me and my days will be very hectic.
I have a two floor apartment and don't even use the top floor at all. I use the main floor which is full living room full dining room, full kitchen & 1/2 bathroom. My living room is my toyroom and my sleeping room. I put up 3 playpens and take them down daily. One child sleeps on my couch and I put a sheet and pillow down for him daily and in the corner of my living room is a toddler bed that stays there all the time and I kind of pile toys on it in the evening and have some of the other big toys around that area. It is behind my centrally situated furniture so that it doesn't bother me on weeknights or weekends, it just kind of shortens up the room. So I have no problem sleeping all five children in the same room.
Sometimes when I have a new child start who is crying or waking earlier I put them out in the dining room, but then I can't work in the kitchen at all during naptime and can't use my main floor at all so that sucks. That's why I prefer all of them in one room. Oh yes, and I have blackout curtains so it's pitch black when they are closed and the children fall asleep quickly.
I wish my kids could sleep in one room. I put all 3 in one room today to see what happens and now they are awake after sleeping an hour only. If one is up he will wake up others too.
I can't use my main room as we have a open plan kitchen and I sit there whilst they sleep and I can't do anything in the kitchen either as it will wake them up. :(
Cocoon, it gives me a good excuse to have to go to my room and relax and read because I can't get much work done when my little ones are asleep either. You deserve a break so take it silly woman! I find I can do some fruit chopping in the kitchen to prepare for afternoon snack just after they fall asleep because they sleep soundly, but then they need for me to be quiet in the 2nd hour of the nap because that's when I will wake them so that's when I read.
I'm blessed to have good sleepers - 2 hours every day or a little more.
Blackout curtains, great idea! I don't have any window coverings at all... live on an acre or property at the top of a hill, so no one can look in. I can see now that expecting children to nap with the sun shining right on them would be a problem. Something to add to my list of things to get.
Hey Cocoon,
I actually have two assistants. One for the morning and one for the afternoon. Morning one is 5 days a week and I pay her $11/hr right now as she just started 2 months ago. Afternoon one only comes in tues, wed, and thurs and I pay her $12.50 but I am going to give her a raise come September as she's been with us now for a year. I found them through kijiji by posting a detailed ad on how their day would look like exactly and what i wanted my assistants to do. then held many interviews on one scheduled days to meet with all the potential ones i thought might work.
I agree Momof4, that you can't expect your assistants to be responsible for the kids in your dayhome. I totally feel that I am 100% responsible for the kids and their well being no matter who is helping me out, and I make sure that I am able to still handle everything on my own as there are always times that someone sick or unable to come etc....I also feel that I am still the main provider running the show in regards to schedule, food activities, etc and though the thought did cross my mind of how weird it might be to have someone working with me in my own house, I can truly say that I have never felt that either have ever been in my way. In fact, they have been the opposite and have truly been my life enhancers and I appreciate them sooooo much! . Myy whole reason behind hiring them was to enrich my own quality of life as well as the children's but not to replace me. I view my assistants more as an addition to the program, where they bring a renewed energy to the children and I and do things with them that I may have not thought of. I give them the freedom to plan or choose to do their own activities, but still provide a schedule and structure that I find works best. And I don't spend all my money. I would say about 25-30% goes to invest in them, and I would probably be ok with it going up to 40 because that's how much I believe it is worth it. (I also forgot to mention that the one is a nursing student and the 2nd one is studying to be a kindergarten teacher so I don't take any highschool students) I feel my life is 100% better for it and it makes my job more enjoyable and much more stress free which is priceless. But yes, you cannot pass on the responsibility. And no matter how educated and experienced someone is in childcare, I find that mothers know how to handle everything best.
I will try to put them in same room again for the rest of the week I will see if they can adjust sleeping in the same room. We have a white blind which is no use at all so I bought blackout curtains. When I close the curtains it is pich dark and it also block the sun. On these hot days I close my curtains and it really helps. Our room is not so hot anymore.
Regarding help, I decided to offer $100 a week for 9 hours work. She won't be alone with kids and I will do the most work. I just need her to accompany me to the outings in the morning and help me to serve the food and tidy up after that. I will change the diapers and even wash the dishes as I'm particular about my cleaning :) I better go and write an ad.
Dayhome Mamma, what do you look for when interviewing? I have no idea what qualities I should look for or how to interview.
And also do you do their taxes as well or they take care of themselves?
Thanks a lot!
Cocoon
Where does one buy blackout curtains? ...Says the woman with no window coverings in her home except some European windows that have the blinds right in them.....
Haha, a really good quality fabric will work and you can have them lined if you want top of the line or you can go to Home Depot and find the ones I bought. I'm one of those people who constantly has to budget. Mine were about $25 a panel, just dark brown suede with a good backing and it's dark as night even on the sunniest days when I close them.
THanks again Momof4. You seem to be rescuing me a lot lately LOL. I am on a tight budget, so if dark brown suede panels from Home Depot work well, that's awesome. My rooms are green or cream coloured, so brown would be lovely.
Well, they have lots of colours but it seems to me the dark colour works great. You won't believe this but my living room/toyroom/sleeproom is cream coloured with one green wall, ha!
Not surprised at all... we must be kindred spirits! And yes, a dark colour will probably be best to give maximum light elimination.
I think I've got mine from Rosa or something like that. They were luckly on offer and they were too long. What I did was fold in to two and hand stitched and hang like that. It is thicker now and when I close the curtains it does not let the sun into our rooms. Hope it helps.
I used to cover the windows with black bin bags. Everyday I had to take it off and put it back it was difficult and tiring as the tape would not stick to the walls :)
WALMART!!!
I got purple ones for my daughters room, and I know they have a bunch of colours!
BTW - my living room is dark esspresso furniture, cream walls, cream couches and brown w/ teal accents! :laugh:
They take care of their taxes Cocoon. Considered more so as a contract worker. Like if you were to hire someone to help install your kitchen tiles. I'm buying someone's service. In this case though, I can't claim the help as an expense for my business. If you go the employee route then you can but you do have to get your accountant to have them on payroll which costs more, you would have to discuss these details and options more so with your tax person...I'm just sharing with you what I do.
never felt the need to have to get so complicated. I'm a private small home based business so I just go about things the most common sense way. Don't plan on going the big business route as its not necessary and more pain in the butt then its worth. way more paperwork, more money to pay accountant, more details to think and worry about and gain knowledge in. Just way too much hassle in my opinion, especially because I'm private and I don't plan on having to do this for many more years. People will say, "oh, but you can claim all that income you are paying them", which I have stated to my spouse as well who had previously owned and sold a large scale business... he advised that they forget to mention how much you have to spend to go that route because you then have to consider having them insured which you pay for, and have to change every time you change your assistant (time=money), you have to add vacation pay, pay for having their part of taxes done, and I'm sure lots more which I don't even know about, but basically all that a normal business does and is expected to provide. If I was running a daycare, sure, of course I'd have to go that way. I feel the business is too small to go the employee route. Maybe You can even write up a contract if you want to be extra safe. To prove that they are only on contract. and just renew it and have them resign every six months, if your assistants even stay that long as this is a high turnaround kind of business. You'd have to ask about that. I personally don't. But You'll also get told horror stories of how someone got hired, and then reported that they were in fact an employee and how the employer had not granted them their basic employee standards such as vacation pay, etc) all which I find extreme and have never heard or known of anyone personally having gone through. Its kind of more like hearsay in my opinion. Either way, its all too complicated. So do the research and see what others have to say. I know there are plenty of moms here who will suggest to follow things in a certain way which they feel is the most right way. But it may be the only way they know. Know that there are many ways to go about it as well that people aren't aware about that are totally legal too. You just have to be smart about it and use the law to your advantage in a way that you are allowed to, or that it is meant for. Whatever you do, ask someone that is professionally invested in these kinds of issues and has the expert knowledge before you go any route.
Yes, back on track.....sorry for the hijack Cocoon!
No worries Momof4.
I have just placed my ad. Wish me luck everybody I hope I will find someone nice.
Dayhome Mamma, I will take your advice and draw a contract and make sure they understand that they are not my employe and they have to do their own taxes.
I'm not thinking of going big to be honest. The biggest I would go is max 5-6 kids and that is normal here in Calgary. I actually read on the Internet that if you are a private day home you can go up to 10 kids but I can't remember if your kids included in that number.
And for the piece of mind, I will use my husbands accountant for couple of years until I know how the system works here.
Thank you for all your inputs girls.
OK. As soon as I placed my ad. I have received 2 responses, both from high school students. One of them don't know how to spell or write. She says "I bin" meant I've been. " I no" meant I know. Her email is full of spelling mistakes! I'm very much into writing properly and I don't use text language especially, if I'm applying for jobs. She says she has CPR which I don't really care or need as she won't be alone with the kids. So her having CPR won't make any difference to me.
The second one has no experience but she says she learn quick, which I'm fine with it again she won't be alone with the kids and as long as she follows my instructions we are good. And her writing is good.:) I know I won't need their writing skills but it is my quirk.
And I'm aware that they can't stay long, just until the school starts. Right now, I'm not in a rush to find someone but it would be good if I can as one of my client had asked me extra day for couple of weeks.
What are your thoughts? Which one I should call for interview?
Thanks.
Well, damn our f'ing school spelling & grammar system dammit!!!
Ok, now that I got that out of my system, let me tell you that my best friend's granddaughter is my occasional helper, who is 13 years old and feels that $20 for a morning (8am-12) is awesome.
I think if I were you I would set up a meeting with both of these young ladies for a visit at your busiest time with the children and see how they are with the little ones. My young lady who helps out really loves the kids, so whether we are here in the playroom dancing or playing with playdo or out on a fieldtrip to the library or the splashplad she's awesome.
It's all about having the extra hands and the extra eyes to help out and make our outings less stressful or on rainy days to make a crafting/playdo/painting day less messy. I just love my little helper, but she isn't here very often.
My advice for how much to 'pay' a worker is to ensure you follow the laws for your province ~ unfortunately ignorance of the law is not an excuse if you find yourself in a legal issue with a youth's parent if you hirer a teen under age 18 or with the adult if you hirer someone over 18 who did not know their rights at the beginning and figured them out later into the relationship ... personally I would not rely on my advice or the advice of others who 'did such and such' because they might have 'gotta lucky' with getting away with something technically illegal but you might not be so lucky :(
My advice is to make sure who ever you chose to hire is old enough to 'work' you are following the Employment Standards Act for your province.... why parents might get away with hiring under age employees because they are not legally a 'business' the standards that WE are held to might be different depending on the province you live in?
Here is a link for determining how old you have to be to 'legally work' in each Province ...
http://www.youth.gc.ca/eng/topics/jobs/age.shtml . Hiring a 'helper' who is under the legal age of work you can likely get away without paying them the 'student minimum wage' in your province because they are not protected by it ~ but if they are over that age ~ so for example 14 in Ontario for 'most' industries although some you have to be 16,17 and 18 to work in.
You might always want to check with your insurance company to see if 'employees' are covered under your home business ryder ~ if you are paying someone to work for you and they are injured in your home you want to make sure that you have coverage if they or their parent depending on their age SUES YOU for having an unsafe workplace ... and that includes making sure you are covered while the employee is both on or off your property if you take field trips with the kids!
Determine if you are an employer or if you are contracting the service of a 'self employed person' buy reading through the government of Canada's literature on this because these rules are the same across Canada verses per Province ... because based on what I have read on the difference between the two ... while hiring a contractor to come into your home and perform a service in your kitchen is one thing cause they have all the control over THEIR business and they are providing a 'service' to you there is a BIG difference when you move into hiring someone to come into YOUR home and YOUR business and perform WORK that you control and so forth you are indeed hiring an employee .... because they have no control/autonomy in your home as you make all the choices for your business, they are not providing any of the tools or equipment for the job you do, they cannot hire any assistants to help them or subcontract the work to yet another person, aside from getting 'fired' if they do not perform their work to your satisfaction or if you decide you no longer need them they are taking no financial risk in your business, there is no degree of management or investment held by them in your business, aside from the wage you pay there is no degree of profit for them in your business, and they are not the ones writing the contracts with your clients or with themselves YOU ARE .... therefore by the definitions of the CRA IMO and my guess if you come before the tribunal if someone were to report you ~ you are CLEARLY an EMPLOYER in this situation ....
Here is the criteria for determining employer or hiring a self employed person to read for yourselves ....
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tg/rc4110/rc4110-e.html
So my understanding is that based on that if you are hiring someone 'old enough to work' in your province who is therefore protected by the Employment Standards Act and you are under the CRA requirements of employers you would be responsible to pay that persons EI, CPP, % of vacation pay according to your province and submit their income tax based on their tax bracket and so forth.
I have a degree in Human Resource Management and worked in the field drawing up employee contracts ~ legally employees cannot be forced to 'opt out' of their rights under the ESA or the CRA requirements ~ so even if they sign a contract that DOES it MAY not stand up later depending on certain criteria. So if your contract states they are 'responsible' to pay their own of these you better make sure it is WORDED in a way to be CLEAR TO ALL PARTIES and LEGALLY BINDING otherwise you could still find yourself later having them file a complaint against you with the Labor Board in your Province and having to 'back pay' them EI, CPP, vacation and so forth!
Now from what my peers who've gone this route themselves have shared is they have had a lawyer help them draw up an employment contract that clearly shows that the 'hour wage' they were paid INCLUDED EXTRA PAYMENT of these things .... so it indicated what their base was X per hour which met minimum wage requirements plus an additional A. amount per hour for EI portion, B. amount per hour for CPP and C. amount per hour for 4% vacation pay and D. it stated finally that because the business as a small 'home childcare' business and therefore not required by the government to have a 'GST and other tax submission' account that the employer was not deducting any 'income tax' on their behalf and therefore 'incomes taxes' were not being deducted from the weekly pay cheque on their behalf and therefore they were responsible for submitting their own income tax at the end of the year. My understanding that this is a way to 'clearly' show that while YES you are an employer under the definition of the CRA you've drawn up a contract in such a way to 'meet' those requirements while having the employee submit their own remittances because it is 'easier' due to the nature of your business and employees usually only be 'temporary' in nature and so forth.
Hope that helps ~ and again this is just 'my understanding' from what I have read on government websites and what I learned in school when I took my Human Resource Management courses on Labor Relations and Employment Standards in Ontario ... important to do your own research and come to your own conclusion cause if push comes to shove it is YOU who has to live with an audit or Labor Relations complaint and any consequences of your business choices!
BTW I will share an example of employees cannot 'opt' out of their ESA rights.
In Ontario if you work over 5 hours you are entitled to a 30 minute break unpaid .... in order for this break to be unpaid though you have to be allowed to LEAVE the premises to take it ~ if an employer requires you to stay on premise for whatever reason the break must be PAID.
So in licensed daycare centres the ratios must be maintained at all times as per the DNA act and well this OFTEN requires that some staff have to take their one lunch break ON SITE in order to do this while others are allowed to leave for it. MOST centres have this policy, staff signed their employee contract knowing that they had to do this as per the 'polices' of the daycare and so forth .... however in most centres staff work a 9 hour day but only get paid for 8 .... so basically staff are NOT getting PAID for their lunch hour despite being required to 'stay on site' because it is not consistent WHICH ONE had to remain behind and so forth staff just basically volunteer taking turns being the person who does not have to be on 'on site' and this is still done in MANY centres because staff are not aware of their 'rights'.
However my understanding from a peer who worked there at the time was that several years ago one centre was reported to the Labor Board for this 'practice' in their centre ... a complaint filed by ONE employee about this practice and they WON ... and not only did that ONE employe win back-pay for their unpaid lunch hours they were required to be 'onsite' but because there was no 'record' of who had to stay behind and who did not she got paid for ALL her lunch hours and not only HERS but ALL employees were awarded this even though they did not file a complaint themselves .... so the centre was required to go back the 7 years with their employment tax records and pay ALL staff on record working more than 5 hour shifts for their lunch hours which cost them a fortune in penalties! Moving forward they changed staffs hours of work to be 8.5 hours and only gave them a 30 minute break so that they were able to cover lunches without requiring anyone to 'stay behind' and be paid for their lunches ~ which I guess was still a win for employees cause their workday got shortened.
Anyway my point is that initially that employee had SIGNED THE CONTACT knowing that this was a policy ~ but than filed a complaint about it and won ~ because she cannot 'legally opt out' of an ESA requirement ~ a contract can EXCEED the ESA but it must meet its bare minimum as well!
Sad thing is that many centres STILL require staff to do this over lunch hour and they do it UNPAID and no one complains cause they 'assume' it must be legal cause so many centres do it and why would an employer do something 'illegal' :(
Anyway if you are going to 'hire' anyone PLEASE make sure you research and protect yourself cause it could turn out to be more trouble than its worth because it opens all sorts of doors of liability and so forth!!!!
Inspired, thank you for your posts. You gave me a lot to think about and consider. I was thinking of drawing a simple contract stating that they are responsible for paying their own taxes etc.
The helper would only be coming once a day for 3 hours a week for a start. And if everything goes well I will need her for 3 days a week again 3 hours each day. Now, to my understanding she is no more then a regular babysitter who comes to a family whenever her services is required.
When i was babysitting for a babysitting comany in the past i was responsible for my own taxes and it was writing in my contract too. I was also babysitting privately and those families were regular. But law did not make them my employers.
I understand where you coming from but in my case as a small business, I don't think I need to follow the employment law. Thanks again for the links. I will have a look at them to see what they say about this.
Cocoon
Just read one of your link "Am I old enough to work" well in my case they are. They are both 16 years of age therefore, they don't require permission from their parents' to work. Although, I couldn't find whether I should be paying the minimum wage.
I will be paying $400 a month which makes $11 for an hour which is a very good hourly rate for a teenager but I like to keep them happy:)