Bummer.

This woman and I have been talking on the phone/via email for a while. She FINALLY came by for an interview today. She just left, actually. I feel nauseous.

She wanted:
-no payment when she didn't come (ie, her mom takes her for the day etc)
-no contract
-no notice when she terminated (her husband periodically gets laid off)

I tried to reason with her. She became very short with me and gathered her things to leave when I told her she had to pay even if she decided to keep her home for the day. She went on and on about what OTHER daycares do, and how she was so surprised that I wouldn't accommodate her. She told me how everyone else she'd been to was so much more flexible than me. She really made me feel like a Nazi, even going so far as to tell me that I shouldn't be taking holidays unless school was out (she is a teacher).

She told me that it was "a real shame" that I couldn't be flexible because she loved my program and set up and I seemed like a perfect fit....

Damn. I was kind of banking on her. Not too many bites lately, and I am starting to panic for September. I am all PMS'y too so I am trying to keep it in perspective and hold it together. :( sorry for the TMI.

ETA: Is this my new reality?? Am I reallly going to have to offer flex care for every yahoo, because it's what "every other provider" is doing? FML...

She sounds like a real winner. You are better off without her! I know you are having a rough time filling your spots, but it WILL happen. You are worth what you are asking for. Do not let this one lady ruin your day.

By the sounds of it, she is looking for a daycare who operates illegally. Most legitimite daycares I know have all 3 of the very things she does not want.

Please, if every other provider was offering what she is saying that they do, she would have gone with one of them already. She is just trying to BULLY you into giving her what she wants. Stand your ground and don't give in. You can find better parents that will treat you with the respect you deserve.

In my own experience I've found teachers to be much like that ~ so much so that when I find out on email and or by phone that they are teachers I tell them up front that I can't accomidate their needs of summer/christmas holidays off and give them names of providers that do in my area.

((Hugs)) nothing worse than having to deal with that but Valerie has a point, if others were better than she would have gone with them.
I think you'll find that with September coming up- more parents are looking as they are typically on vacation right now and will do the last minute scramble soon
I moved a year ago come the end of this month and found starting up in a new town was almost the same as starting up when I first opened. Many MANY home daycare's in my area ....almost every other house is a stay home Mom offering daycare at cheaper rates :blink: ( no offense intended to you stay home moms plse :flower: ) I had to establish myself again and build up a reputation and get my name out there as most were refering to each other and I wasn't getting any bites either.
Stay strong..your not a nazi ~ you just had a run in with one ;)

That's too bad you couldn't have weeded her out before the interview.

I am one of those providers who do not charge when I close or when your child is sick. I have very specific reasons for running my business this way. And I promise I run a very legitimate daycare with a great program.

I do have a contract, and I ask for 30 days notice when they terminate though.

At the end of the day you have to charge what you're willing to work for. Otherwise, you'll hate what you do. Stick to your fees and programs, someone amazing will come along and take that space.

.................... .....next!

If other providers are willing to short change themselves let them. You'll fill the space and with someone willing to be fair.

A&B I hope you did not take offense to what I posted. I was referring to the no contract and no termination notice, as I think those are key things to have and most daycares who operate illegally don't have those.

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Originally Posted by Toregone

If other providers are willing to short change themselves let them. You'll fill the space and with someone willing to be fair.

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Yup. That's the NEXT.

I would have booted her out once she started to 'negotiate' with me. I don't do that. Rules and Rules.

Yup I agree if there are so many providers in your area who are offering her what she WANTS than why is she still LOOKING?

Sounds like she wants her cake and to eat it too so to speak .... she wants to pay for the 'illegal childcare' model and have all financial benefits of that setting with no contract or no commitment or recourse for the provider if she screws them over but wants the professionalism of a quality program you are offering .... sorry but you get what you pay for!

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Originally Posted by apples and bananas

....I am one of those providers who do not charge ..... when your child is sick. .....

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There have been times I have considered adding this to encourage them to 'keep their child home' when they are sick verses sending them cause they have to pay .... however I would definitely have a CAP on how many days they can use per year to help with my budgeting and to be honest it would still be factored into my daily fee so that at the end of the year I would still make the same amount of $$ even offering this 'perk' to clients ... aka one year I would raise my fees 4% instead of 2% and offer clients 5 unpaid days for their children ... so I would still get my 2% COL raise in fees cause the other 2% would cover the 'lost' income in offering the 5 days ;)

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Originally Posted by Bookworm

A&B I hope you did not take offense to what I posted. I was referring to the no contract and no termination notice, as I think those are key things to have and most daycares who operate illegally don't have those.

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Not offended at all. :) We all have reasons for the way we run our business... some don't charge for time the kids aren't there, some do. I happen to be one of those providers who don't. I will say that when you do charge for all of these things I think you pull a higher quality of family. I have to be very careful who I take on, I want to make sure I'm taking on a good client who respects my business, not just one who wants to save a buck. I've made that mistake before.

Totally agree with Valerie. I'm sure she will find what she is looking for.:) Don't be surprise when you see her at your door again agreeing on whatever you asked. Good luck and I hope you will find perfect families soon!

I hear ya on the PMS part lol NO patience today

I would just move on. Sounds like she`d be a nightmare to work with anyways. She was just bluffing. If everyone else was so awesome, then why is she still looking? She was trying to manipulate you into getting what she wanted.

I had a mom who said "you have to realize the difference between what others offer and what you offer" whatever that meant and my reply was "I am not concerned with what others offer. This is my business and my daycare and I will run it the way I see fit." She apologized after lol

I know it's tough out there right now but keep the faith, keep your chin up and KNOW you are better than having to bow down to some *person* who is trying to manipulate you. I'm praying for you :)

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Originally Posted by Inspired by Reggio

There have been times I have considered adding this to encourage them to 'keep their child home' when they are sick verses sending them cause they have to pay .... however I would definitely have a CAP on how many days they can use per year to help with my budgeting and to be honest it would still be factored into my daily fee so that at the end of the year I would still make the same amount of $$ even offering this 'perk' to clients ... aka one year I would raise my fees 4% instead of 2% and offer clients 5 unpaid days for their children ... so I would still get my 2% COL raise in fees cause the other 2% would cover the 'lost' income in offering the 5 days ;)

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Totally off topic but I thought the same thing lol. I had an interview last week and I told them that I have three sick days a year - paid and he asked if he gets three sick days a year unpaid...thought that was interesting....

It amazes me how some parents so disrespect the person they are entrusting with the care of their beloved children. The parents role is to support us and be respectful of how we reasonably do business. We are not independently wealthy and do this for a lark, we chose this career because we love kids, it meets our families needs and we want to have our own business. Parents need to understand they are not negotiating to purchase a car and can pick and choose what options they want and it does not help to down play the importance of our role in their childs life and what we provide for them. We are not babysitters, we are child care providers and educators. Be grateful we are here to care for your child as you would care for him/her.
It can be very difficult when we are not full to be tempted by these negoiators because we need the work. This woman wants Alphaghetti to work without any job security - as a professional she/we deserve better. :no:

I don't charge for sick days for a few reasons. 1. I'm really good at budgeting and can handle the unexpected loss in pay. 2. I don't want clients bringing their kids sick. I don't want anyone to feel like they have to get their money's worth and tylenol them up and hope for the best as the day goes on. 3. It gives me an incredible competitive edge in my community. I have a ton of referals and everyone who comes to meet with me wants to sign with me. 4. I do not cap the days because of reason number 2. If a client is out with something like Strep they could be out for their entire 5 days. I don't want a client bringing them back early because they're trying to save days.

In saying all that... I also charge a higher rate then some of the providers in my area. It all evens out for me in the end.

You have to feel like you're getting what you're worth otherwise you'll resent the job. I get what I'm worth and I like the light days when someone isn't feeling well.

The other thing you have to consider is a parent only get's so many sick days at work. So, between them being sick and their child being sick they're really not off for that many days. If it's abused I warn them and terminate.

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Originally Posted by Littledragon

I hear ya on the PMS part lol NO patience today

I would just move on. Sounds like she`d be a nightmare to work with anyways. She was just bluffing. If everyone else was so awesome, then why is she still looking? She was trying to manipulate you into getting what she wanted.

I had a mom who said "you have to realize the difference between what others offer and what you offer" whatever that meant and my reply was "I am not concerned with what others offer. This is my business and my daycare and I will run it the way I see fit." She apologized after lol

I know it's tough out there right now but keep the faith, keep your chin up and KNOW you are better than having to bow down to some *person* who is trying to manipulate you. I'm praying for you :)

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Dude...you made me well up. Thank you. :wub::wub:

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Originally Posted by mimi

It amazes me how some parents so disrespect the person they are entrusting with the care of their beloved children. The parents role is to support us and be respectful of how we reasonably do business. We are not independently wealthy and do this for a lark, we chose this career because we love kids, it meets our families needs and we want to have our own business. Parents need to understand they are not negotiating to purchase a car and can pick and choose what options they want and it does not help to down play the importance of our role in their childs life and what we provide for them. We are not babysitters, we are child care providers and educators. Be grateful we are here to care for your child as you would care for him/her.
It can be very difficult when we are not full to be tempted by these negoiators because we need the work. This woman wants Alphaghetti to work without any job security - as a professional she/we deserve better. :no:

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When she was telling me about others in the area who charge less and who don't charge for parents' days off, I wondered aloud how they managed to make a living like that. She then replied, "well I guess they're not doing daycare to make money".

Anyway, thanks so much everyone. You've made me feel a lot better. Your support means so, so much to me right now.

I was very anxious after she left, wondering if maybe I am expecting too much from my new neighbourhood. The thing that pisses me off is the neighbourhood here and the old one are the same "social class", meaning they all probably earn about the same amount of money, and EVERYONE out here is nickel and diming me into the poor house. Back in Toronto NOBODY questioned my rates or anything else. Ugh.

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Originally Posted by apples and bananas

I don't charge for sick days for a few reasons. 1. I'm really good at budgeting and can handle the unexpected loss in pay. 2. I don't want clients bringing their kids sick. I don't want anyone to feel like they have to get their money's worth and tylenol them up and hope for the best as the day goes on. 3. It gives me an incredible competitive edge in my community. I have a ton of referals and everyone who comes to meet with me wants to sign with me. 4. I do not cap the days because of reason number 2. If a client is out with something like Strep they could be out for their entire 5 days. I don't want a client bringing them back early because they're trying to save days.

In saying all that... I also charge a higher rate then some of the providers in my area. It all evens out for me in the end.

You have to feel like you're getting what you're worth otherwise you'll resent the job. I get what I'm worth and I like the light days when someone isn't feeling well.

The other thing you have to consider is a parent only get's so many sick days at work. So, between them being sick and their child being sick they're really not off for that many days. If it's abused I warn them and terminate.

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If I had some asshat bringing their SICK kid to my house just because they didn't want to waste the $35 bucks, I don't want their family anywhere near mine anyway. :mad:

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When she was telling me about others in the area who charge less and who don't charge for parents' days off, I wondered aloud how they managed to make a living like that. She then replied, "well I guess they're not doing daycare to make money".

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Oh yes, where are all those saints who do daycare just for fun, not like those of us who are evil and want to earn money in a career we love... oh right, they are called Grandma LOL. I assume this teacher is not in it for the "money" but hands her paycheque back because she chose the teaching profession as a ministry to children?

And I am a grandma, so I'm not insulting Grandmas with my comment above. I would cheerfully welcome my grandchild 24/7, weekends, on overnights, take them on vacation etc. because she is my grandchild. I'm not offering 24/7, weekends, and sleepovers to my clients, as much as I think they are adorable.

I recently had an altercation with a parent regarding fees. She had booked her 6 year old for every Wed and Fri for this summer and as of today, has not used a single one. After I went after her for payment, (which she had agreed to pay regardless of absences of course), she apologized blah blah blah what is the total I'm owing I'll send you a cheque today. When I told her the amount she said "Well, that seems a bit much, considering I didn't use any of the time" To which my response was "In the spring you booked every wednesday and friday for the duration of summer, which means I turned away other interested families for that space. That is a lot of lost income on my part, income that you agreed to pay regardless of absences (this is where I inserted our email exchange regarding this topicin the spring). I am not a bored housewife looking for extra gambling money, this is a business that I work very hard on, and it is my income with which I pay my bills. This is the total." (and I laid out every day for her with the daily fee beside it)
To which she profusely apologized and instantly sent an email transfer in the amount owing. lol. This is a parent from my daughter's school by the way, which is why it may not be so professionaly worded. More of a friend (big mistake #1), than a client. But I felt so much better after I stuck it to her.

If "all the other daycares" are doing A) B) and C) then why aren't you WITH the other daycares? Because you're shooting our of your A$$ & testing me as a provider and I will NOT back down!

LOSER!!!!

Oh and re: teachers

We have 3 in our family and my mom says about them (not all teachers) that "geeze for someone with so much schooling and is responsiable for teaching 'our' children they sure are STUPID and seem to have no common sense". LOL I laugh everything she says that....because my cousin is pretty "dumb" outside of books.

Oh Alpha, you did a great job educating this woman on the realities of a quality home daycare instead of a 'babysitter'. You don't want to deal with someone like that on a daily basis! Keep going, they will find you. I know it's frustrating.

Good luck finding QUALITY care on those terms! you are def better off with out her!!!

Dont forget though, if you are willing to go with lots of part timers (easier to find) and keep a min due, you could actually make more than having full timers, thats what I do, works great and people love me, they say no one else in the area will do this. everyone else takes full time with full time pay. I charge part time fee BUT its at 1-3 day weeks, they always pay my fee, but if I only have room for one or two days some weeks they still agree, works for both, they dont have to pay full time, and I can fill fill fill my spots. Confusing at times but works for me. (i have over 12 enrolled)

When I started this business I had a disagreement with a mother over "school bus drop off" anyway, things ended up pretty heated, she began yelling at me over the phone and said "you work for me, I am your boss, you have to do what I tell you!" so i said........come get your kid!

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Originally Posted by kidlove

When I started this business I had a disagreement with a mother over "school bus drop off" anyway, things ended up pretty heated, she began yelling at me over the phone and said "you work for me, I am your boss, you have to do what I tell you!" so i said........come get your kid!

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Wow...that is beyond messed up!!

Regarding the part timers...yeah I understand that, but it's pretty hard to schedule more part timers (I already have 2) while keeping within my 5 kid maximum.

Alpha .... I'm just wondering if you had to move or just wanted a change of scenery and are you wishing you hadn't ?

Yes, it's always a good strategy to piss off your dc provider! I applaud what you said:thumbsup:

good for you lou, not very often we providers come out on top when it comes to money situations like that..... way to go!!!!!!!:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Crayola kiddies

Alpha .... I'm just wondering if you had to move or just wanted a change of scenery and are you wishing you hadn't ?

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We lived in the city, and we moved to the outskirts because our house that we were renting was too small, and we were in a shit school district. Now we have a big house with a big yard, and pay loads less than we did in renting a house a third the size. The kids are far friendlier to my kids, we have our own friends out here, we're closer to DH's family, and my dog loves our yard!

I absolutely don't regret it one little bit, even if I never get a full daycare. ;)

ETA: Thanks for the perspective, even if that wasn't the intention of your question. Kinda needed it. :star:

Sorry Alpha. She's probably bluffing and can't get what she wants from anyone so she's telling you everyone else this so you cave and give in. The 'it's such a shame' was the tell tale for me. She's trying to bully you. Imagine what kind of client she'd be? BLAAAAAAAH

If it makes you feel any better both of those clients I got so quickly both fell through. I'm back to square one again with little bites on my ads. One was actually my neighbour. There's been some drama here with the boys downstairs and their 'illegal activities'. They happen to be friends of my fiance so I'm quite sure the parents were worried about my extra cirricular activities. Makes me want to throw up that they might think that. Got the excuse of getting in somewhere else where they were on a wait list.

Well I'm glad to hear you dont regret it. Happiness is more important then a full daycare. I would never want to live in downtown Toronto ( I am originally from etobicoke) for anything ....I like to visit but I like my oasis in the country. My dog runs free on our four acres ... Kids play outside all the time, we have Bon fires in our yard and pitch a tent in our fruit orchard and sleep under the stars, we hear the foxes calling out in the night and see deer in the fields around us in the early morning ....... Wouldn't trade it for anything ; ) I hope you find some wonderful families to join your daycare and your life will be complete !

I absolutely don't regret it one little bit, even if I never get a full daycare. ;)

ETA: Thanks for the perspective, even if that wasn't the intention of your question. Kinda needed it. :star:[/QUOTE]