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So one of my little guys who's 2 has been saying all morning that daddy hit him hard hard hard. He talks enough that I was able to get the story and he said he was in bed (or supposed to be and got up and daddy got mad and hit him hard hard hard.
What am I supposed to do with this info? He said he's never hit him before... I feel uncomfortable.
Hmmm that's a tough one. Geez, it's like even if you talk to Mom are you getting the child in more trouble for 'telling'? Would social services act without visual marks/bruises? It's really got me thinking what would I do? For sure make the child feel safe and praised for sharing the information; which I know you did as well.
I also wanted to add...is our liability to report anything suspicious as caregivers (by law?).
I don't know. I mean I certainly don't think he's an "abused" child. I know the family well (or thought I did!) and I'm sure it was a one-time thing, maybe dad was frustrated that he wouldn't sleep....I know he's not very patient with the kids from what mom has said previously, but under no circumstances do I think it's ok to punish in that way....
I think I do want to tell mom...like maybe say the child said it's ok to hit because daddy hit him....???? Bring it to her attention that way. I just don't know...
My feeling is to let it go but document what the child said with date.
Regardless of what our feelings are it is legal for a parent to spank their own non-compliant child and that is exactly what the child described. There are not a lot of options for disciplining a two year old that won't stay in bed. Parent fatique comes into play as well as this may have been the third night in a row the child put up the fuss so therefore the need for discipline had also escolated. Chances are the child will also think twice the next time he is threatened to lay down or face the consequences meaning it won't be repeated very often. Also hard to a child is hard to determine since a poke is light and a slap is hard and degrees in between are foggy.
Yes we are required to report cases of suspected abuse but I do not see that this is one unless the child reports the same story over and over or you see the remains of visible marks on the child. As I said spanking is legal.
If you feel the need to deal with the issue then I would mention it either to the father or the mother by simply saying what the child relayed to you - do not indicate that you questioned the child to get the extra information. Let on the child simply told you. Your purpose then in telling them is to let them know that the child is likely to say things, that you will be required by law to take the child's interpretation into consideration and that what might be best in the future is for the parents to be honest with you when things like this occur so that you can be prepared for when the child starts talking.
The reality is they are not going to tell you but you have put them on notice that you are watching and listening carefully and maybe it will make them think twice next time.
I know I am old fashion and attitudes have changed but my kids would have gotten a spanking - hard enough to know I meant business but not hard enough to do damage - for repeatedly disobeying the command to go to bed. But done once it rarely needed to be repeated for weeks on end cause a threat was all it took to get compliance - kids slept, parents got to sleep, everyone woke up happy, rested and ready to tackle the day and I don't regret that style of parenting but like I said times were different back then and this was the norm.
My liability is to report anything "suspicious" however....please keep in mind, kids "stories" can seem alarming sometimes, when in fact they are not. Maybe these parents "spank" and maybe he had been up many times through the night with verbal warnings going "un-aknowledged". In my area we are resposible to report abuse and neglect (not sure if this really is though) however, I also feel it is best to go to the parent first. Do you have any reason to feel this father could be abusive? or do you think he's just "old school", "hard,hard,hard" could just be because his Dad has never spanked him before and it seemed hard. either way, if their are no marks...I'd give some time and observation along with more convo's (loosely based) with this little boy. Don't forget, let him talk, don't talk for him. Never say things like "does Daddy Hit you" then you put the idea in his head, "oh , yes..daddy hits me" when he very well may not.
Some people do "spank" as punishment, and it's not considered abuse by some. By others it is. :)
I do not think that his father is abusive. I think he got a spanking. It was probably hard enough to hurt, but left no marks. I would not consider reporting this. I only question if I should bring it up with mom or let it go for this time.
I know some people spank. I just find it hard to teach a 2 year old that hitting is wrong...that's not how we solve problems when the people they look up to solve problems through hitting. But, for now he's a good little boy and I have to presume that this was an isolated incident. I just don't like it.
Dont forget gcj: along with MANY other "ways" of raising children, some people "spank" as a form of punishment when raising their children. Unless you bring this up at "first meeting" and rule out, parents who raise their kids "different" from your beliefs, you do have to "put up" with it. I guess you don't have to "like" it, but you do have to respect their choice of child rearing or you will have problems in the future. Could you handle witnessing one of your parents spanking their child? If you can't handle it or don't agree with it...you may want to reconsider taking care of that child. What will you do or how will you feel if later on the parents threatens poor behavior with a "spanking" when they get home? Are you going to worry sick about the child all night? Just a thought.
When meeting parents for the first time that is a BIG question. "Do you spank your child or will you consider spanking when your child is old enough?" I feel you should attempt to keep "like minded" parents (as yourself) in you Day Care. Less problems in the future. :)
Great point kidlove! I always screen parents and always end up with parents who raise their kids according to similar values as myself, as I still feel this family does besides this! I've never out and out asked, but it's sure is something to consider in the future, because I would absolutely have a problem with that and I would NOT take on a family who does that on a regular basis.
Just bring up some great food for thought.
I consider this family to be friends through daycare. We weren't before, but have a very close relationship. I'm closed in the summers and we usually get together for a BBQ...not overly close to blur any lines, but still close. I had their older daughter from baby to school as well. So, it's not like "omg...what have I done?!?"
I'm going to let it go, but record it in case of future "problems", which I don't anticipate.
Personally if you don't suspect abuse then leave it alone. You don't know if it was the 40th time dad had said stay in bed and go to sleep!
You know IMO if a lot more people did things the "old" ways the new generation wouldn't be spoiled, have.it.handed.to.me , i.deserve."it"....at titudes!
Now....leaving many bruises or marks etc. THEN I'd place a call for sure.Spanking is one thing...abuse is another.
While I'm a "don't believe in spanking", mama, everyone parents differently and reasonable spanking is a personal choice. I would document the date and words said for future reference and just keep an eye on the situation. Look for new AND fading bruises in the same area which points to repeated injury to the same area. Spanking should never leave bruising anyways. Just be alert to what you heard, document and report future findings if you begin to see a pattern.
I agree with the spanking thing. It could have just been that. Also, kids really exaggerate sometimes. You never really know. I wont honestly leave it, MAYBE mention it to mom as in "he said the funniest thing today" or something like that, but otherwise leave it unless you see marks or bruises. Then I would annymously call CAS
I agree with Momma_Mia. You can't rely on a 2 year old's story and if there has been no past history of abuse then it was simply a case of a parent ACTUALLY disciplining their child for a change. Like a pp said, you don't know if it was the 40th time the dad had to put him back to bed or not. I think after that many times I'd probably do the same thing to my child. Bedtime is bedtime...end of story!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamma_Mia
So, I'd leave it alone and just write it down to keep track if there are no marks that say he was abused and not just disciplined.
Yup, just document word for word and keep it on file. Sounds like it could have been anything. It could have been a dream! Who knows. Kids are funny, and without visible marks I wouldn't worry about it. He may have seen something on TV. I wouldn't even mention it to mom.
We have to remember, it's not our job to teach parents how to parent.
I wouldn't get involved in this one. Sounds pretty minor. But really praise this little guy for telling you and make sure he feels safe to tel lyou anything. Fact of the matte ris... if he told you, he'll probably say it to someone else too.
But, wait a minute, my first thought was: does he have any bruises? Maybe a spanking on the diaper is what happened? You know what I would do? I would tell the Dad and see his reaction. It is part of our job to make sure the children in our care are safe. And it affects our liability if a child arrives with bruises or god forbid was shaken. I read about that happening and the child died at daycare. That's really scary for the children of course, but also for us. We have to make sure the children are healthy when they arrive. Oh, I'm sorry you have to deal with this.
I would leave it for now. My own son tells me that daddy hit him (daddy walked by and my son got brushed hubby passed him, same contact you'd have with someone in a mall lol) or tells daddy I hit him (touching the back of his head as he walks by me). Without repeat instances, or physical evidence of being hit (btw spanking should never be done hard enough to leave a mark.. that crosses the line) you really have no idea what happened. Dad could have simpily picked him up and placed him back in his bed, or yes he could have got a spanking. With kids, what they see as the truth is sometimes not what actually happened.
Document it, don't forget it, but I wouldn't act on it.
Not related to "hitting" but funny way of "how kids see things"...I once had a child tell me. "we had a dog once, but Daddy hit it with a shovel and we threw it in the woods" of course I was like WHAT!!? so I mentioned something to the Dad. He said he had no idea, they did find a "lost dog" once, and Dad said he was working out in the yard at the time...with his SHOVEL! They didn't do anything with it, it just went on its merry way, through their yard and onto the next!:laugh:child painted this horrendous picture of beating the dog with a shovel and throwing it in the woods. (they live in the country the dog probly ran into the woods to his next stop) kids will say some crazy stuff, can't take it too seriously. ;)
I agree while we are legally obligated as professionals to report any signs of physical, emotional, sexual or neglectful abuse to Family and Children Service for investigation ~ this does not sound like a disclosure of physical abuse but rather a spanking the child received for getting out of bed ... we have to take disclosures in context for sure!
If we think of the size of a child to an adult ANY form of physical contact is going to feel 'hard hard hard' to them in comparison ~ we are big and larger so even our 'gentle smack' is going to come off hard and if the dad was frustrated at the time of the spanking it might indeed have been HARD or it could be that the spank was gentle but his VOICE was hard you just never know for sure with children ~ so unless the child is under the age of 2 or stated that he was hit in the head/face for misbehaving which are both illegal as spanking conditions are clearly defined to prohibit it before 2 and after age of 12 and not to the face/head area .... so if it was to the bottom and left no bruising or marks than I would just 'document' the disclosure as mentioned and just continue observing the child / family dynamic for red flags and if none just let it go.
I would also likely ask at pick up to the parent 'was Johnny having hard time at bedtime last night he was telling us a story today and I just wanted to confirm if it was imagination or real' and wait for their side of it and than share whatever the child actually disclosed ~ if they had to spank him than your conversation can go from there and see if they might want some advice on bed time rituals that's worked for you in the past with success?
Also have to take disclosures with a grain of salt ~ I have had children who have 'disclosed' that their parent pushed them down the stairs or hit them or did not feed them anything for a month and so forth when it was nothing of the short that happened just the child's perception of events was skewed.
For example with the one kid what had happened was the child was fooling around and the parent 'yelled' at them to knock it off and the kid startled cause the parent rarely yelled and lost their balance and the kid tumbled down and got a black eye and scraps from it ~ children are 'literal' thinkers and after some conversation the child elaborated that ' mommy pushed me down the stairs with her voice' and follow up with the parent to determine it was an 'accident' the parent had indeed been upstairs at the time and hollered down to the child to knock it off and get upstairs and the kid fell ... if I had gone on the child's initial disclosure and reported it to CAS when there were no other 'indicators' of abuse I would have caused so much trouble to that family :(
I have also been on the receiving end of a child disclosing something at home that was taken out of context ... for example one of my daycare kids once was obsessed with the fact that her sibling was born by cesarean she kept role playing this in the dolly centre and so forth .... another child went home and was role playing but actually went into the kitchen and took a knife and cut open her doll and well the mom came into the room and FREAKED and was upset because she saw 'violence / purposeful damage' of an object not the inquisitive play behind it that she was trying to get the baby out of the dolls belly ... when confronted as to 'why' the child told the parent that she did that because X tried to do it to her at daycare (leaving out the to get the baby out of my belly and the fact there was no KNIFE they were using their imaginations in the program) and when the parent prodded for why would someone try to cut your belly open that is just wrong the child did not know what to answer cause she thought she was in trouble and the mom than planted the question 'was she angry ~ why was she trying to hurt you' and so forth and the child told a tale about yes she was so angry and so forth and she got a knife out of the kitchen and tried to cut me open cause I had a baby she wanted hidden in my belly cause that is what she thought the mother wanted to hear and she was trying to get out of the trouble she thought she was in .... and well the mom thought someone had 'assaulted' her child in daycare when in reality it was just a innocent child role playing the joy of the birth of her sister in the program and the child was retelling it with 'versions' of the truth but with imagined components as well. We really do have to be CAREFUL in how we approach children to make sure we do not plant ideas that become their 'reality' for them because they often cannot tell the difference between what they experienced in their real life and what they imagined as actually having 'happened' to them .... this is why some children can be so passionate about sticking to their 'version' when having told an obvious lie.
No one wants to be responsible for a child having been 'at risk' and doing nothing but at the same time if we reported every 'disclosure' to CAS they would be bombarded with cases of children's warped sense of reality taking away from children who are truly in danger.
My daughter once told my husband that I hit her on her face, hard. She was about 2.5 years old at the time. She said it three times to him in the space of about 24 hours. It never happened. I have ZERO idea where her little brain conjured up that image.
These things happen. Maybe it was a dream? Maybe it wasn't, though. Either way, unless it's repeated reports of hitting from dad, or unless you start seeing marks on the kid, I wouldn't say or do anything. Unfortunately, spanking is legal.