Putting on/Taking off shoes and jackets

Now, I'm trying not to be a hardass, so I need you fine ladies to tell me if I'm being too "tough". I understand that every child develops differently, but this is starting to drive me nuts!

In my care right now, I have two 3 yrs old girls and three 2yrs old boys (including my son). My son (and daughter who is now 7), have been able to at least take OFF their shoes and jackets since 2 yrs old. My son (who turned 2 this summer), can easily take off his velcro running shoes and can sometimes put them on but might need some help with that. He then puts them neatly on the mat and hangs up his sweater by the hoodie.

The other two toddlers in my care haven't the slightest idea on how to remove their shoes and coats. When we all pile in from outside I have them all sit down to remove their shoes and they literally just sit there. I encourage them to take off their shoes and even show them how to get it started (opening velcro and pulling the heel down), but they STILL just sit there. I've even resorted to sending the others off to play while continuing to encourage them to take off their shoes "so you can go play!" forup to 10 min, but they don't even try or do a clear half ass attempt. And when it comes to their jackets i've shown them many times how to unzip their jackets but I know they are just waiting for me to do it which I'll admit after a while, I do because we need to move on with our day. These are both first borns, and so I know Mom and Dad just do it for them probably without a second thought, assumingthey are not capable.

I feel though, from my own experience that they should definitely be able to at least take off their shoes and coats at 2 yrs old...I'm not expecting them to be able to put them on quite yet because I know that's more difficult and requires more fine motor skill and coordination, but taking off is easy!! And neither of these boys have any sort of delay in motor skills.

What do you think??

I would send out a blanket memo about independence and how you are currently teaching the children how to put on/take off their own shoes and jackets etc.... Then ask the parents to help out by working on this at home as well.
The children I have in care are starting to work on this now and they are 18 months.

I agree!!!!! They SHOULD be at least attempting to do this. This is a "life skill" and can very easily be rendered with practice. You hit the nail right on the head, some parents just do it for them because they really dont think their "baby" is capable and others do it because its easier than taking the time to teach them. Just like toilet training, they will pick it up sooner or later on their own BUT have full ability to "learn" how, so much earlier if the adults take the time to show the child how to do it.
That being said, how about if you treat it as a MAJOR accomplishment when they actually do it? If someone takes their shoes and coat off by them self not only give them praise :) a big hug, and a high five! the others see the positive encouragement and they too, "want to do a high five with you!"
I have a little guy who I swear is the biggest "flake" in the world...very smart, potty trained, gets everything, just such a smart boy......can't dress himself. :) gets the feet in the pants but every which way but the right way, also does not put on his own shoes or take them off half the time, attempts it, but gives up after one try unsuccessful :( (lazy) I make him continue until he gets it right, sometimes he gets so frustrated he cries.... I just give him the right leg and encourage to put the foot in, then the next foot. Or show him how to use his thumb on the back of his foot to get his shoes off. Really think its just the result of it being done for him more than being encouraged to do himself. If parents could only understand, by encouraging their children to do these "tiny tasks" they are building their self esteem. Nothing more gratifying for a little person than when they learn to do something "all by themselves" just stick to it, and ask the parents to do the same at home. :)

I found that for some of my DCK's the more I push the less they do. So I show them what they need to do once in a while ... when one of the other kids do it I praise them and OUPS ...Suddenly the other child will start saying thank you or please or do whatever I want them to learn to do. But you I would mention it to the parents what you are now trying to teach their child. I have before. I bring it up just like that in a conversation about their child and most of the time, the parent clue in. Good luck !

Bookworm: I'm sending out my September newsletter on Friday, and I definitely want to include thisin the letter, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't being unrealistic first! :)

kidlove: Oh i definitely play the positive reinforcement game!! And ONCE one of the little boys DID take his shoes off and I made a HUGE fuss over him! He was so happy...but that was the very last time. dang!! Will keep working at it and will encourage the parents to do the same.

Crafty- I considered that, maybe I was too "in their face" about it, so I started just leaving them sitting by the front door while I went to play with the kids who were already dressed but they didn't care, lol. They just sat their with their shoes half on staring at the other kids playing, lol. I really need to get the parents on board!

I don't think you're being too hard on them at all!
My daughter takes off, puts on both jackets and shoes....only doesn't know how to undo buttons. Yet my 3yr dcb still doesn't know how to put on his shoes...it's easy kid. We do this 4 times a day....get with the program! lol

I also encourage the children to put thier own coats on by the mid 2's. I show them how to lay the coat on the floor with the hood at their feet (upside down) then they reach down out their hands on the arm holes and flip it over their head! vwalaa!!!! they are so thrilled to do that all by themselves and can't wait to show their parents when they get ready to go home. my favorite is when the parent grabs the coat, hurrying to put in on the child and the child says "no Daddy, I can do it myself, watch!" then does the "flip trick" and the child has the biggest smile from ear to ear! so awsome. :)

IMO, by the age of 2.5 a child should be able to dress and undress completely with little to no help!

I have been sending kids off to school the last couple of years barely able to do anything at least willingly for themselves - mostly boys if that makes a difference.

Parents today are rushed and don't take the time to teach as it is at least in their minds faster to just do it themselves. Those robeeze slippers are part of the problem,lol. With old fashion runnrs, kids learned from 12-15 months to take off socks and shoes and be quite proud of themselves. Putting them on took a lot longer to learn but at least they were usually willing to try.

For your son, remember he has an older sister that he is emulating whereas your daycare kids don't so for sure he is being exposed to more than they are. But the three year olds should have mastered more than they are willing to show.

The more toddlers run, jump, play with balls and blocks and the less time they spend with crafts and circle time the sooner they will have the coordination and manual dexterity to do things like shoes and coats too.

Oh yeah getting the parents on board is a major factor. I just noticed that for me, the kids tented to do better if I ignored the resistance from them but I've only been oened for less than a year. I have not met my match yet probably LOL

nah...independence is SO important and sometimes they need a little push in the right direction. I have 2 2year olds as well. One can do it all no problem, and the other just sits there. I actually take his hands and place them where they need to be to pull off the heel. He got is fairly quickly...once he finally realized that he has to try if he doesn't want to sit at the door all day.
There's a way to do it. As long as your not taunting, which I know you're not, then it's all good IMO.

We call this behavior 'learned helplessness' .... they have learned that if they sit there long enough looking helpless someone else will do it for them ... we are such a society of rushed behavior that most families do not give children the time to learn and master simple things like dressing.

Children are perfectly CAPABLE of starting to do this in infancy ... a 1 year old should be able to pull their shoes and socks off and by 18 months be figuring out how to put them back on if given the time to practice this verse being told 'no don't touch your shoes'!

I actually have things like this in the dress up centre to help them 'practice' during times when we are not rushing.

I do not think you are being unrealistic at all in having this expectation ~ also agree with the others that you need to have clients on board to get quicker success otherwise if they are used to holding out long enough that their grown up will do it for them ~ they are not motivated to TRY in order to master it.

My crew are typically all 'self dressing' by 18 months with me just helping with the zippers, pulls and tricky parts if they have shoes / boots that are hold I will hold them for them while they put their feet in and so forth.

I currently have a 15 month old who can follow directions to go to his cubby and get his shoes and hat and come to the front step ~ he sits down and opens his velcro himself and hands them to me to hold the tongue back and keep the shoe in place while he wiggles his foot in himself and he than closes the velcro up .... children are VERY capable if we set them up for success by giving them the time and tools to practice and little man is VERY proud of himself to be given the time to do this ~ he gets pissy if his parents try to do it for him cause they are rushing him and do not want to give him the time to help do it.

Hold your horses playfelt...lots of well needed learned behavior from all activities. crafts: manual dexterity, scissors, writing, following direction, etc. ...circle time: sitting still, hands to self, practice much needed skills such as alphabet recognition, days of the week, months of the year. vocal skills with signing rhyming and such. physical movement, learning through play, jumping, ball throwing, follow the leader, learning to sit still, follow direction, self control, mastering dexterity...the list goes on and on.....all needed for proper growth a development.

completely agree with Reggio: "learned helplessness" that is all it is. Unless a child has a "disability" or "delay" of some sort, there is no reason why by the age of 2 they can not begin to if not fully master, getting dressed from socks to jacket. They are very smart and not given enough credit and due to our "rushed" society, not given enough time! :( So many times I have had a child "try" to do it themselves and the parent "busts" in on their effort and says "we're in a hurry!"

I've had kids like that too. Honestly, and people might think I'm mean, but I'd only encourage them for a couple minutes. If they don't want to even try, they can sit there. They'll do it eventually if they're not getting attention for NOT doing it. If the shoe area is near where you play, just go on your way. As soon as you see one of them take off shoes or at least make a clear effort, bring out the brass bands, throw a parade and make it a really big deal! Then you've moved to giving attention to positive behaviours instead of negative. That's what worked with a few kids I've had over the years.

I'm encouraging the parents of my two under 2 children to start asking them to try to put on their own hats and shoes and take them off because it's time for them to start learning about getting dressed. By age 3 I'm hoping they are getting pretty good at it and I teach them the 'flipover' coat trick.