2.5 yr old intelligence-Is this normal???

I have a 2.75 yr old daycare boy (Turns 3 in April).
He is very smart with numbers and letters.
He recently began asking me how to spell words such as his friends names, his pets names, words of objects such as milk, sock etc. He knows the sounds all the letters make and sometimes I will make the sound and he says the letter to spell a word.

I wrote down a little list of what he knows how to spell (perfectly, without error every time) and the list is up to 20. He can count as high as his attention will let, usually 40 or 50, and can also count backwards from as high as 30 when asked.
Today it freaked me out when he was playing with flashcards and he started placing them in reverse order on the floor. From Z to A perfectly. He can spell several words backwards already like his own name and his sisters name with ease.

Although hsi parents and I are very proud of him, I am slightly worried if this is 'normal' behaviour. His social skills are good, he has a preference which friends he likes or doesnt. But can play with and alongside with them,

His speech was delayed and didnt say much until about a few months ago, and now I feel that he is 100% on par with his peers his age.

Would this be this childs 'knack' and nothing to be concerned about in your opinion?

not sure if worried or concerned are the right words to use here, I would say he is gifted. IMO IF you work with a child of that age you can have a tone of intelligence blossom with ease, but if I am understanding what you are saying he can do and understand, he is far beyond where others his age are and seems to be a very gifted boy. If he is not socially okward in any way and makes friends and gets along well, he sounds like a very interesting and well rounded charactor. Good luck with his accomplishments in the future and give the parents a pat on the back...whether its just plain genetics or they are working night and day...intelligent kids are a breath of fresh are....most kids today can't do nearly what they are capable of. ;)

ha ha ! show him my post and have him proof read it, I made a few mistakes :)

My brother was like that growing up. He used to sit down with my mom and I when I did my homework and answer for me 50% of the time..! When it was his time to go to school, he had a hard time since he allready knew what the teachers were teaching in class. I think that might be where he will have a '' harder time'' with his gift!

does he have older siblings?

Wow! That's amazing! Since he is socially normal, I wouldn't be worried, but he does sound gifted. He will likely be bored at school when he starts. Maybe his parents should look into a gifted program somewhere. My daughter is only a few months younger and very smart, but she cannot do anything remotely close to what you are mentioning!!!

My youngest was/is a lot like that! Things come extremely easily for her. She's in grade 3 now and she works on "bonus" projects - which she loves - when she is ahead of the other kids! She is a sweet, social, athletic but most importantly,happy, girl! I'd say there's nothing to worry about!! :)

I just sent a child like this off to JK in the Fall .... she was gifted with a self initiated passion and knack for literacy ... she was not only recognizing but writing the entire alphabet by 2.5 along with a few familiar words and by 3 she was printing about 30 different words consistently and reading the short phonics book like the 'Dog plays in the bog' type things where the word are all simple.

Mom shared that in school what they have ended up doing to 'encourage' her to not get bored is she goes up to the Grade 1 classroom for reading/literacy time because she is more on par with that level .... I had her here the last PD dad and she was drawing pictures and writing a full page story underneath ~ it had spelling mistakes but it was phonetically correct ... meaning the words were all spelled like they 'sounded' to her ... so Princess was Prinses and so forth but she is only 4 most of her peers are still mastering their 'name' ;)

I certainly would not be concerned but if the child is gifted in one area as mentioned they will need to inform the school so that the school can put systems in place to support that and avoid the child having boredom or negative school experience because of it :(

Holy crap, I have a child that age in my daycare and he can't even speak clearly so when he sings the ABC's I don't even know for sure if he's saying them right, I'm just hoping. You have a little genius on your hands. I had a little girl that age with the academic abilities which was a good thing because she hadn't turned 4 yet when she started JK and she did fine. All children are different and we all have our own strengths and weaknesses. Just be proud of each child for their own special talents and don't worry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kidlove

ha ha ! show him my post and have him proof read it, I made a few mistakes :)

---

:laugh: That got me kidlove. I almost choked on my tea.

Yes he is quite amazing, and I cannot wait to see what he masters next! His parents used flash cards with him when he was young and he was always into reading books and puzzels, had no interest in TV or movies which helped. He does not have any older siblings, bnut I also have his younger sister who is 15 months old, we will see if she shares the same interest in letters etc.

Whenever me and his parents discuss his skills, she hints that she hopes it is not a sign of autism or aspergers or anything because she said she has looked into it and a lot of those diagnosis begin to look like 'just a gifted child'. His social skills comfort me and her that she has nothing to be concerned about.
Should she look into getting him any sort of testing now or wait until he is closer to school aged?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kidlove

ha ha ! show him my post and have him proof read it, I made a few mistakes :)

---

lmao kidlove!!!!!!!!!!!

is he potty trained? How does he play with children that are younger than he is?

At this time, I wouldn't "do" anything but nurture what seems to be a natural proficiency for literature. I don't think I would have him tested, at least until he is about to start school.
It's funny, we (parents and providers) worry when a child doesn't do something, and we worry when they do! ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mom-in-alberta

At this time, I wouldn't "do" anything but nurture what seems to be a natural proficiency for literature. I don't think I would have him tested, at least until he is about to start school.
It's funny, we (parents and providers) worry when a child doesn't do something, and we worry when they do! ;)

---

I agree with this post. We don't have to label our children. Let them play and have fun and be innocent as long as possible in this age of media and violence and sex all pushed on children way too young. It's sad. We should praise our little ones for their accomplishments, help them with their shortcomings and accept them as they are.

From my experience with a gifted LD child of my own and having done extensive research along with going through the motions of a Psych Ed Assessment, I would say the odds are extremely high that this child is gifted. Obviously with what you said his intelect level is but what is a done deal for me is the fact that he was a late talker. Most gifted children have a defecit. It is something they may overcome and may not even be obvious to those around him, but also it can be a 2nd exceptionality which would lead to Gifted with an LD. Don't be concerned. It's a waste of energy. Monitor and document everything closely so that he gets "picked up" as soon as he is at school. If you really want to help him and his family, recommend they get in touch with mensa. They are the worldwide organization for gifted folks. I'm sure they would have some resources that may challenge him a little in the meantime if nothing else.

www.canada.mensa.org

If I may give an example from my own life to enforce my earlier post, my son is exceptionally gifted, huge IQ, but as a child he was a problem. He had ADHD and learning disabilities but his IQ was off the charts. So he's in his 30's now and goes to university for a hobby, taking a phsychology or political course here and there for fun. He makes a ton of money and keeps getting promoted at his job and he's having so much fun because he's a party guy who never intends to grow up! He's freaking Peter Pan!!! What's a Mom to say to that? He's happy, he's successful, I love him, but he's never going to give me a grandbaby, darnnit!

Leave him be. Continue to praise and encourage him but let him be a kid. Let him guide you guys as to what he wants and needs to foster this gift. Testing is only necessary if you are looking to have him identified in any way for a gifted program/school. He is still young, not necessary at this time and labeling him as "gifted" can have its negatives in my opinion. Sometimes these kids only start to identify with "the label" and loose a bit of themselves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Momof4

If I may give an example from my own life to enforce my earlier post, my son is exceptionally gifted, huge IQ, but as a child he was a problem. He had ADHD and learning disabilities but his IQ was off the charts. So he's in his 30's now and goes to university for a hobby, taking a phsychology or political course here and there for fun. He makes a ton of money and keeps getting promoted at his job and he's having so much fun because he's a party guy who never intends to grow up! He's freaking Peter Pan!!! What's a Mom to say to that? He's happy, he's successful, I love him, but he's never going to give me a grandbaby, darnnit!

---

I think I envy him!:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daycarewhisperer

is he potty trained? How does he play with children that are younger than he is?

---

He is potty trained, since 2.25 mos. He still wets at nighttime, maybe 2 out of 7 nights. He no longer naps at daycare, just requires a 1 hour lay-down in a dark room alone but will not fall asleep.

He would MUCH rather prefer older playmates than younger ones. He expresses this when the little ones wake from nap (even those his own age or a year older) he has cousins aged 5 and 7, he LOVES playing with them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KingstonMom

He is potty trained, since 2.25 mos. He still wets at nighttime, maybe 2 out of 7 nights. He no longer naps at daycare, just requires a 1 hour lay-down in a dark room alone but will not fall asleep.

He would MUCH rather prefer older playmates than younger ones. He expresses this when the little ones wake from nap (even those his own age or a year older) he has cousins aged 5 and 7, he LOVES playing with them.

---

I've never met a kid who didn't prefer older playmates. The much older the better. Even my special needs kids highly prefer way way older kids.

For me, I would nix the short nap deal. At my house he would need to sleep for 2.5 hours EVERY day no exceptions. His possible intelect doesn't change that he has a toddler body that needs sleep.

I would also exclusively have him only play with the younger children for a few months. If you really want to see what he's made of you will see it in how he is able to bring the younger ones into his play and make do with what he has.

I encourage you to consider that he MAY be a child who has a lot of symbol recognition work done at home. He may have an adult spending HOURS with him doing cards, shapes, sizes, workds... etc. He may simply be a product of a lot of exposure and a lot of praise and adult.

You will know much more of what he is made of to see how he does with no adult and nothing coming IN... just what he puts OUT when he's in the worst case scenario... play with younger kids and on his own. THAT'S where you can REALLY tell.

He may not be resting because he's all jacked up in his brain from the amount of "in" he gets everday hosted by adult. You may find that he zoinks out and takes a LONG hard nap every day if you have him do the HARD work of playing with much younger children where he is the one who entertains and not the one being entertained. It's ALWAYS easier to be the one who is entertained which is why nearly every single kid on the planet prefers older kids.

I've had three total real gifted children in my 30 plus year career. I've had many kids go into the TAG program over the years but only three were able to sustain it into the upper years of school. When you see these kids you KNOW it. You don't know it by flash cards and symbol recognition and order. You know it by how amazingly adaptable they are to make any situation brilliant with little on their side.

I've also had kids who were able to do what your guy does at about the age of turning three. One in particular the parents spent endless hours with from birth doing symbols and TALKING to him constantly. He learned to talk really young and had a wide breadth of symbol recognition and words. He was quite jacked up and really really suffered when he was left to build, sort, free play, and interact with the other kids. He was very very adult dependent for his minute to minute. When left to his own devices to play toys he spent most of it just talk talk talk talk talk. Not interactive talk but terms of engagement talk to get the adult to "do" him.

He left my care and took a year to potty train. He went into parent care and the Mom had such a difficult time managing him that she had to go back to work and have the Dad stay home with him. They believed he was a genius but they had substantial issues with his behavior when they weren't pumping him with preschool work and crafts.

I never thought the kid was gifted from day one. It was a very hard balance for me to listen to and see what he could do (quite similiar to your boy) but then see in real life how disobedient he was, how jacked up he was, and how repeated proximal corrections were overlooked and he was unable to learn from past to apply to future. He was the second hardest kid I have ever had. I had two staff assistants during his run and both said he was the hardest. Yes he could read words and write... he could even do back wards words.... but he was really overstimulated and had WAY too much adult in his face. We choose to not do ANY preschool activities with him because he so desperately needed to just learn to entertain himself and play and follow directions. We focused on THOSE things because he really really needed them. His defecits in playing and following directions were profound.

To me, he didn't show any signs of giftedness from day one but he did show that he had adults playing with him and adults believing he was extraordinary. He had adults believe that he was far higher in thinking and problem solving then he was. I think nearly any kid with average intelligence could produce what he could if they had a team of adults from birth spending their awake time feeding the "he's gifted" machine like my little guy did.

Now he may be gifted... he may be one of the precious few who are. But for me... in my setting... it really wouldn't matter at all. I would look at him overall and say he will take a good deep sleep every day, eat well, exercise with the kids on the walk, and play toys with the younger child in the day care who needs to be mentored by someone who can talk well and play. I would not ever let him choose his playmate and I would always pick the youngest walker in the group to be his primary buddy. A few months of that and THEN you will see his true skill set. I also wouldn't do any school work with him. Sounds like the parents got that covered. (unless you love doing that then do it for you).

The parents do not sit around and teach him 24/7.
Unless you consider him asking them how to spell words, or asking them to write numbers on paper. It is all the little boy's request to learn, learn, learn. During free play, he only really plays with numbered blocks, putting them in order, making words from flash cards, or getting books and counting the page numbers in it. Seriously, he does this with novels just to count the pages.

As far as making him play more with the youngest child, I have 3 boys his age (within 2 months), a 4 yr old girl, and his 15 month old sister. He plays with her at home every night exclusively.

The nap deal. He will NOT sleep, at least not every day. maybe once a week he will actually fall asleep. I agree he is extremley young to not nap and his body needs it. but thasts another topic for another day!! LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KingstonMom

The parents do not sit around and teach him 24/7.
Unless you consider him asking them how to spell words, or asking them to write numbers on paper. It is all the little boy's request to learn, learn, learn. During free play, he only really plays with numbered blocks, putting them in order, making words from flash cards, or getting books and counting the page numbers in it. Seriously, he does this with novels just to count the pages.

As far as making him play more with the youngest child, I have 3 boys his age (within 2 months), a 4 yr old girl, and his 15 month old sister. He plays with her at home every night exclusively.

The nap deal. He will NOT sleep, at least not every day. maybe once a week he will actually fall asleep. I agree he is extremley young to not nap and his body needs it. but thasts another topic for another day!! LOL

---

In response to your original post, yes he sounds gifted. With that said I think working on his social development is key, as with all little ones his age. I wouldn't try and overload him with learning but let him lead you. How are his fine motor skills?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skysue

In response to your original post, yes he sounds gifted. With that said I think working on his social development is key, as with all little ones his age. I wouldn't try and overload him with learning but let him lead you. How are his fine motor skills?

---

Hi fine motor is excellent, we often string beads and also have small, interlocking games they enjoy playing with.
He enjoys playdoh, beading, painting, gluing, anything artsy.
He does not, however have the ability to print letters or do much more than a circle on paper.
His pictures are very scribbley.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KingstonMom

Hi fine motor is excellent, we often string beads and also have small, interlocking games they enjoy playing with.
He enjoys playdoh, beading, painting, gluing, anything artsy.
He does not, however have the ability to print letters or do much more than a circle on paper.
His pictures are very scribbley.

---

Okay I get what you are saying. I think his skill set is possibly on the high end of normal but I don't see it as being too extraordinary. He is recognizing and memorizing symbols and sequences. I've seen that before many times.

From what you have said in my home I would focus on him free playing toys such as duplo blocks, lego blocks, primo blocks, cardboard blocks, playmobil, potato head, lincoln logs, cars, trains, doll house, kitchen etc. I wouldn't have him play with things that have numbers or letters on them. I would have him play regular toys and see if he were able to entertain himself without the sorting and symbols. I would stay OUT of that play too. I would mix him with the other three year olds (I'm assuming they are the ones he is not choosing but rather the way older kids) and see how he plays REGULAR toys.

I don't see the crafty stuff being unusual. Most kids his age would dig doing that stuff if they had an adult playing with them.

I would also focus on exercise........ tons of it. Have him go outside every day for a good long walk and have a big lunch meal. I would not do ANY symbols or sequencing with him anywhere near nap time. He may be getting escalated with that activity and you are putting him to bed with a racing mind. Make sure he has "go play toys" with little to no adult for at least an hour or so before lunch. If you are going to "work" with him do it long long long before nap or after nap. Have him exercise, eat good, and free play with his age mates before nap so he gets his mind settled and is open to pure deep sleep. I would not allow him up at all during nap. A couple of hours of sleep in a pitch black dark room every day no exceptions.

If he is gifted these fundamental activities for a two year old will compliment his giftedness far better than crafting or "school". He has a baby body and he has playmates. He needs to have his focus being on good food, good sleep, good play, and good exercise. He seems like he has a ton of adult at home so as little adult as possible at your house and as much age mate, food, sleep, and regular toys will balance him out.

One of my truly gifted kiddos was with me for five years from birth to kindy. She just won second place in a math basic skills testing for our entire district. We are a town of a half million people so our school district is big. She was able to do all these things at that age and began handwriting around then...... but she was an amazing toy player and played with ease going from any age group. She pplayed as well with the one year olds as she did with the kids older than her. She ate great, exercised, and took long naps every day. She's nine now and still takes a nap on the weekends. What makes her so phenomenal is that she excelles in every single subject, health, wellness, friendship etc because she has had a group of adults who want her to be balanced. She would have never been allowed to go in one way only..... all aspects of her life including sleep, eating, exercise are just as important as her academic prowess. Her ability to adapt and be flexible has served her so well.

I have another example for you but I have to be careful about the information because it's a child in my daycare but he's kind of similar to your case. The child has fantastic memory and verbal skills and speaks clearly and this all started right after about the age of 1. I was super impressed, but nothing else is coming along, no comprehenson, no participating with the others, slow learning at crafting and anything with simple instructions and he has no empathy or respect for the other children.

He isn't violent or anything, he just always concentrates on what he is doing and doesn't listen to others or respect their space. I'm really exhausted by the end of the day because of this one child and I've been working really hard with him and hoping for progress but not seeing much. I wondered about autism or something here too. But I haven't had any experience with that so I don't know what to think.

It's really great that you are trying to figure out how to help the child but it's really the parent's responsibility.

It is really amazing to be around kids who have extraordinary minds. The three I have had in my 34 years have been a phenomenal experience and I thank the heavens that I got to SEE that in my career. With only running a max of eight kids I could have easily gone my twenty years in home child care and never seen it once.

The first gifted kid I had is now an adult and a graduate of Harvard. He is working on his masters now. He was an amazing baby and could talk completely by about fourteen months. I was young when I cared for him but I knew even then that he was unique. He was fortunate enough to be raised true wealth and has had the opportunities to match his incredible mind.

I have had many many kids who's parents believed they were gifted. That's very common. I've had a pretty good number of kids who did the things you are describing and they turned out to not be gifted but had a ton of adult from birth on and had a ton of exposure to the things the average parent uses as indicator of intelligence like letter recognition, number recognition, sequencing, and verbal skills. I've also had a handfull of kids who fixated on numbers, letters, and sequencing. My son at age four could completely read AND read upside down. It didn't matter which way he held the book..... rightside up or upside down...... he could read up to the level of Dr Seuss books at age four. He just memorized the words and could do the sequencing regardless of positioning. He could put on quite a dog and pony show when he was little with his mad upside down reading skilz.

From the perspective of being a provider, this child's skill set would not be too impressive to me because the things I really want... that are super high priority.. he's not doing all of them. I would work on the these things first, especially nap, playing with the younger kids, and playing toys without getting his sort and sequence on. I would rather he do his numbers, letters, counting, etc. at home on his own dime. At my house I would want "go play toys", be a great friend, be sweet with the little ones, eat good food, and take a good long nap every day. I know from all my years of experience that these things make for great balanced students. He's still very very young and has his whole life to count pages, sort, and sequence. He only gets to be a toddler for a short time so his body, his interpersonal skills, and his ability to truly PLAY is what will give him the best foot forward in life.

It's cool to see a little kid be able to do what he does for sure but the newness of that would wear off in about an hour to me and I definitely wouldn't feed it nor would I spend any time with the parents discussing it unless it interfered with nap, true play, his relationship with the kids, eating, and exercising.

It would be a great idea to broaden his interests to other things such as a hobby or sport - something besides just academics he can develop a passion for. School can accommodate giftedness only so far and often it is the outside interests - chess clubs, scrabble clubs, strategy games, that actually help them cope. Social skills with peers often needs to be encouraged vice solitary play or engaging only with adults so something to watch for. He for sure sounds like he has skills. It is also possible that he is gifted in only certain areas like spatial awareness or logic and looking at some of the other dimensions of education and fostering those would be good too.