Dcm doesnt want to pay

so i gave notice yesterday and dcm seemed fine at the door. then I get the email that she wants to pull dcg out 3 days earlier that my notice included and not pay for those days.

I explained that she had to pay for the period of notice given regardless of attendance as per our contract and i got a rather nasty email tell me that i broke the contract by not giving 3 weeks notice. I gave 20 days or 14 business days. the reason for this is because I have vacation booked and she already had arrangementd for dcg for the time during my vacation. so i guess technically I should have added one day to the date even though i wasnt available. she claims to be disappointed but clearly she's angry given all the capital letters and exclamation points in her message. I even offerd to take dcg after my vacation if they needed me but at a later drop off time as that was the reason for my termination. I offered to assist them in finding someone by doing so information gathering for them. I think i covered myself pretty well. it comes down to her not wanting to pay for the 3 days, she berated me for taking the job on, and putting them is such a bad position with no notice. Oh, and she also says that dcg wouldnt have been here for the 3 days anyway cause gramma is coming to town to look after her so its all about the money.

I replied nicely and said that XX amount is due on Monday and without it, they cannot leave XX in my care. I said i am happy to fullfill my obligations and provide the same care for xx as i always have but only with proper payment. I also said that I want a confirmation from them with their decision by sunday evening or I will assume she isnt returning. why do people have to react to badly. great friday so far.
My instincts tell me to say tell her to hit the road but i'm trying to be professional.

I get that its a huge inconvenience for them to find someone new especially with their hours but why is that more important than my well being? she told me that i should have been more understanding. what did she want me to do? uggh.

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Originally Posted by gramma

I get that its a huge inconvenience for them to find someone new especially with their hours but why is that more important than my well being? she told me that i should have been more understanding. what did she want me to do? uggh.

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She wants you to understand their situation, but is unwilling to understand yours. It's a business relationship, and she is taking it personally. Stand your ground, be professional, and save all your e-mails.

ugh. Didn't I tell you to expect attitude from DCM. Did you think she would be happy? LOL...

Good for you for being professional. I would have told her to hit the road. However, in light of the way things seem to be going with this relationship...don't be surprised if she pulls DCG out earlier just to spite you.

This is exactly why some providers (not me, though I will start doing so..) charge a deposit fee for the last 2 weeks of care. Exactly for this reason.

Good riddance to her gramma....I say you crack open a bottle of wine tonight and enjoy sleeping in on Monday :)

I have a deposit of 1 week and i also have a cheque for monday. She would have been fine if I hadnt said that full payment was due, thats what pissed her off. The email was a riot with all the CAPITAL LETTERS lol. I copied dad on my reply because i think he has cooler head but we'll see.

If they dont come back should I try and deposit the cheque that I have on file for Monday? There would be a surplus to what is actually owing but I could send them the difference in the mail.

Oh boy Other Mummy did i ever want to tell her to hit the road LOL. I wont allow her to make me stoop to that level.

I totally understand her situation which is why I offered to help. I know people who might be interested in taking her but I wont be sharing that information now. She is allowed to be disappointed but she needs to learn to act like an adult. Its never easy when there is a termination but i'm willing to be that she wouldnt react this way if a daycare centre was giving her notice. She has no respect for me and I've known that from the beginning.

I have to say that I do see the other side of this. I have my contract worded that "should the client choose to terminate care a 2 week notice (2 weeks payable on notice day) must be given"
"should ________daycare choose to terminate care then ________ shall offer, if required, up to 2 weeks of care, payable in advance."
If I am choosing to terminate then guaranteed I have put a lot of thought into it, given the family 'warnings' leading up to, I would have planned for it financially and in most cases, I've already secured a new family to take the spot. The situation of still having to drop off is going to be awkward enough for the family (& me!), asking them to automatically pay when I should have already planned financially for this seems unreasonable to me. If the child (or family) is enough of a problem to get to the point of termination I would far rather end it then, rather than them just send them anyway, have the awkwardness just because they've paid for it anyway. Just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Dreamalittledream

I have to say that I do see the other side of this. I have my contract worded that "should the client choose to terminate care a 2 week notice (2 weeks payable on notice day) must be given"
"should ________daycare choose to terminate care then ________ shall offer, if required, up to 2 weeks of care, payable in advance."
If I am choosing to terminate then guaranteed I have put a lot of thought into it, given the family 'warnings' leading up to, I would have planned for it financially and in most cases, I've already secured a new family to take the spot. The situation of still having to drop off is going to be awkward enough for the family (& me!), asking them to automatically pay when I should have already planned financially for this seems unreasonable to me. If the child (or family) is enough of a problem to get to the point of termination I would far rather end it then, rather than them just send them anyway, have the awkwardness just because they've paid for it anyway. Just my opinion.

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This doesnt really have anything to do with me not planning financially, its a matter of principle. We have a contract that they have agreed to which states that they must pay for the spot regardless of attendance. Termination doesnt have to be awkward when its handled in a professional manner. I fully expected her reaction to be like this but it doesnt mean that we cant get past it and move forward for the next 3 weeks. Over the course of 18 years of doing this, I have had to do terminations for a variety of reasons and yes some of them go bad but not all of them. similarly when a client has given me notice, I have always been professional and respectful and provided care the same way I always had. Doesnt mean that I was happy about it, but I did my complaining to my husband. If she had approached me personally and in a calm and respectful manner and said that given this and that we want to end early, can we come to an agreement about payment I would have been happy to discuss it with her but she chose to berate me in an email.

I appreciate your opinion, thank you.

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Originally Posted by gramma

This doesnt really have anything to do with me not planning financially, its a matter of principle. We have a contract that they have agreed to which states that they must pay for the spot regardless of attendance. Termination doesnt have to be awkward when its handled in a professional manner. I fully expected her reaction to be like this but it doesnt mean that we cant get past it and move forward for the next 3 weeks. Over the course of 18 years of doing this, I have had to do terminations for a variety of reasons and yes some of them go bad but not all of them. similarly when a client has given me notice, I have always been professional and respectful and provided care the same way I always had. Doesnt mean that I was happy about it, but I did my complaining to my husband. If she had approached me personally and in a calm and respectful manner and said that given this and that we want to end early, can we come to an agreement about payment I would have been happy to discuss it with her but she chose to berate me in an email.

I appreciate your opinion, thank you.

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For sure, very valid points. She had no right at all to berate you. And you're right, the contract should be honored.

I must admit I am one of those DCPs who doesn't ask for a security deposit. But I think after reading this I will for all new families. Overall I'm very lucky with the families I do have (with the exception of one...lol) & when they ask me to be flexible I general can be, and they also return the favour when I need them to be flexible.

I have had experience with one family who disputed their start date & it was like pulling teeth to get any form of payment out of them. This all happened within the first 2 weeks of care too....needless to say after various emails & discussions I terminated their contract, but I was out of pocket.

Gramma: You seem to be dealing with this in a very professional manner & kudos to you for doing so :)

Personally I would have let her off early since you can't do the exact 21 days in your contract anyways and it wouldn't be logical for her to start somewhere else and then come back to your daycare for the 1 day owing.

Two weeks is pretty much the normal notice period and would be sufficient for me personally especially since mom sounds angry. I would rather have it all done and over with sooner :)

I am concerned that you have a cheque on file as your last week's payment or deposit. I always cash cheques for the deposit when they are given and advise parents that they are welcome to pay via cheque but I will cash it in. Otherwise - what stops the parent from putting a stop payment on the cheque if things go sour and you actually need that deposit or what if the cheque expires? I would rather have the actual funds in a secure location to cover the last week or two if that situation ever arose.

At this point, I would just try to exit the whole relationship as gracefully and cooly as possible because you don't want to burn bridges or have her bad mouthing you or your daycare. I would try to keep everything professional and not personal.

Good luck. It sounds really stressful.:flower:

Very good point about cashing the cheques. I would do this to cover yourself. It sounds like you have been very professional they are just having a hard time dealing with it. Most parents I know(centre experience) don't really understand the contract they sign so when something comes up it is easier for them to blame the provider rather than take the time to grasp the whole picture. Good luck.

the cheque i have is not for the deposit its for the next 2 weeks care. they provide post dated cheques. There are several different ways to determine if enough notice was given. She doesnt come 5 days a week every week so if I go by that, I have given enough business days notice. By the numbers on the calendar I am 1 day short. According to her email she wasnt planning on bringing her for the 3 days anyway. If our agreement wasnt ending, she would have had to pay for those days.

The issue i am taking with it right now is her attitude. I gave notice but also offered to extend it if they needed more time so if she is worried about having enough time to find someone why wouldnt she take me up on that offer. My new child doesnt start till April 1 so I had the flexibility to do that if necessary. I could have given this woman 3 months notice and she would have reacted the same way. She is part of the reason for the termination but I wanted to keep things polite and not get into the fact that she makes unecessary "digs" about things and that she likes to send emails full of capital letters to make a point.

She was totally fine with my decision in her first email, thanked us for everything and wished us the best. It wasnt until I clarified what money was owing that she turned on me.

I am dealing with this in the most professional manner I can but I will not let her bully me into not taking full payment for the amount of notice given. If she chooses not to make the payment she will need to find care starting Monday.

Good for you. You are being extremely fair to this woman and showed great professionalism. Let us know how it plays out. I have a feeling she will return Monday with fees in hand and a scowl on her face. Be prepared ;)

Uggg tough situation to be in for sure!

I have yet to have an issue in my own business but from my centre experience and reading stories like this just reiterates why I am grateful ensure that I get a security deposit that matches the amount of notice I want to be given on MY end and I also agree to give the 'same amount of notice' should I need to terminate if they choose NOT to attend during that notice period cause they are pissed off or whatever well that is fine ~ they have already PAID me for it and that is their choice to use it or not as long as the service was available to them ~ kinda like how when you rent an apartment and you move out of it early the landlord still keeps the last months rent you paid cause the apartment was there for you to use you just chose not to ;)

A security deposit in advance also gives me the option that if I just want a client GONE without giving notice but they have not 'violated the contract' to warrant grounds they are just not a match than I have the option to make an exception and just 'refund' their deposit in 'lieu of notice' and have care be done on my terms.

Hope you are able to find a resolution you are both happy with ~ but my guess is that she will be leaving your care before you anticipated and without the payment you are hoping for leaving you the choice to suck it up or try to chase her for funds she feels she does not owe you because you terminated the agreement :(

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Originally Posted by Inspired by Reggio

Uggg tough situation to be in for sure!

I have yet to have an issue in my own business but from my centre experience and reading stories like this just reiterates why I am grateful ensure that I get a security deposit that matches the amount of notice I want to be given on MY end and I also agree to give the 'same amount of notice' should I need to terminate if they choose NOT to attend during that notice period cause they are pissed off or whatever well that is fine ~ they have already PAID me for it and that is their choice to use it or not as long as the service was available to them ~ kinda like how when you rent an apartment and you move out of it early the landlord still keeps the last months rent you paid cause the apartment was there for you to use you just chose not to ;)

A security deposit in advance also gives me the option that if I just want a client GONE without giving notice but they have not 'violated the contract' to warrant grounds they are just not a match than I have the option to make an exception and just 'refund' their deposit in 'lieu of notice' and have care be done on my terms.

Hope you are able to find a resolution you are both happy with ~ but my guess is that she will be leaving your care before you anticipated and without the payment you are hoping for leaving you the choice to suck it up or try to chase her for funds she feels she does not owe you because you terminated the agreement :(

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Your probably right Reggio but I do have a one week deposit that was provided at contract signing. I used to do a 2 week deposit but in my case at the time that my clients were signing on i was changing my daycare from a before and after school program to one for little ones. I had tons of experience because i did little ones for 15 years prior to the b/a school kids. I didnt have a playroom set up or anything just my word that I would create a stimulating environment. I felt at the time that 1 week deposit was sufficent given that they had to trust what I said as I could offer no visuals. That will change for anyone new coming into care.

If she doesnt come back, i'm fine with it. I will consider small claims court but most likely will just enjoy the fact that she will have a difficult time finding someone else to do the hours that she wants. Not nice I know, but karma is a bitch.

I agree with the other ladies about the deposit in advance. I ask for a two week deposit, and I inform the parents that it will be cashed now. I use it for the last two weeks of care, and I just tuck it into my savings until it's needed.

So, I have not heard back from this family. I told them I needed to know by early evening today if they were planning on coming back for their 3 weeks notice time. I would think that if they were, i would have heard by now. At least i had one weeks deposit but honestly i'm happy to walk away from the rest of the cash if it means not dealing with dcm who is clearly pissed. I was going to wait to give notice until Monday when I had cashed my cheque but i really didnt figure they would walk away. they have no family close and have already taken lots of vacation time. Lesson learned.

so, she isnt coming back. sends an email a 8pm and informs me she will be here at 1 o'clock tomorrow to pick up dcg clothes, diapers and bottles. Ummmm I dont think so, that's naptime.

Wow! I would say exactly the same thing. Not at naptime.

Is she bringing your money? If you weren't waiting for money I would hang the things on the doorknob of your front door at 1pm and tell her to get them oustide and not to disturb the sleeping children.

I'm so glad this is almost over for you.

No, she isnt paying me. she didnt email until afte 8 last night and I wasnt about to start gathering her things then and I'm working today so she can wait till i'm good and ready to gather it all up.
looked into small claims court and with the cost of filing plus inconveniencing the rest of my clients with a day off doesnt seem worth it.
I was pretty sure she wasnt coming back and the feeling I had all weekend knowing that I didnt have to do those early mornings is totally worth the loss of money. Changing my contract for future client to be a deposit of 2 weeks fees and only 2 weeks notice of termination. and if i ever choos to give additional time for notice i will be sure to do if after the cheque is cashed. thanks for all the support ladies. i think its going to be a great day.

I have the following in my contract, so I can take clients to court or get a collections Agency to get the money for me.

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We agree that if we end up in court over money or any other reasons (payment for services, reimbursement cost etc. ) all court fees are our responsibility and not that of Valerie's Home Daycare (Valerie E. XXXXXXXX) or any members of her family or staff. We are also responsible to cover any and all wages lost to Valerie XXXXXXXX, any of her family member an any and all staff who have had to miss work do to going to court for any reason. We will also pay for any staff required to cover the daycare for days Valerie XXXXXXXX has to attend court or meet with her lawyer. We are aware that if any payments of fees or reimbursements are not made Valerie's Home Daycare can have a collections Agency collect the money on Valerie XXXXXXXs behalf.

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BlueRose, how do you get a collection agency to collect for you? How much does it cost?

Happy to say I haven't had to use one yet, so I am not sure. I am going to look into it. I believe they take a percentage, but not sure.

Do i have the right to withold a receipt until such times as the outsanding balance is paid

I found this collection agency on line http://www.optimumcredit.ca/
There are lots of others. I just typed in collection agency in google search and got a whole list of them. I looked at a few, but this on looked good.

I was under the impression you sell your debt to the collection company and then its no longer your issue. They are responsible for collecting the debt and I am pretty sure that after what they consider "a reasonable amount of time" to repay, which is about 4-6 weeks but varies by company, they then slap a collections notice on your credit file which stays for 7 years and start adding interest as a penalty. I would imagine they buy the debt off you at a certain percent less so they can make money on it.

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Originally Posted by Spixie33

Personally I would have let her off early since you can't do the exact 21 days in your contract anyways and it wouldn't be logical for her to start somewhere else and then come back to your daycare for the 1 day owing.

Two weeks is pretty much the normal notice period and would be sufficient for me personally especially since mom sounds angry. I would rather have it all done and over with sooner :)

I am concerned that you have a cheque on file as your last week's payment or deposit. I always cash cheques for the deposit when they are given and advise parents that they are welcome to pay via cheque but I will cash it in. Otherwise - what stops the parent from putting a stop payment on the cheque if things go sour and you actually need that deposit or what if the cheque expires? I would rather have the actual funds in a secure location to cover the last week or two if that situation ever arose.

At this point, I would just try to exit the whole relationship as gracefully and cooly as possible because you don't want to burn bridges or have her bad mouthing you or your daycare. I would try to keep everything professional and not personal.

Good luck. It sounds really stressful.:flower:

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I do the same as the bolded. I cash cheques immediately.

alphagetti, the cheque i have on file is for their normal payment that would have been due today. I cashed the deposit cheque at the time the contract was signed but it was only for 1 week. what they are not paying for is the care that should be taking place for the next few weeks they decided not to bring her but the contract says they have to pay regardless of attendance. my loss as its not worth fighting for.

I just found out that she has already been turned down by another provider who is a friend of a friend.

And that says a lot about her too that she just assumed finding someone else wouldn't be an issue and burned her bridges before she had to. The smugness of knowing she screwed herself over is worth far more than the money owed.