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Hi !
I just wanted to let you know that we wrote an easy step-by-step article on How to choose the right daycare provider. It contains information about:
- Planning your search;
- Questions to ask when calling providers;
- What to look for and points to clarify when visiting a daycare;
- Background checks & references;
- Etc.
Don't hesitate to read it !
The advice I give to parents that are looking for child care is to interview as many providers as you can. Go with your gut. Like buying a car for example......you shop around and you sit it in for a while. You don't usually buy the first car you see. Your parent instincts will kick in and you will know when you have found the right provider for you and your family. Don't cancel an interview either just check out the daycare because you never know the one that got away might have been a better fit for your family. We don't mind interviews we know that it is a part of our business so you are not bothering us. I would rather someone interview me then to call and cancel because they found a provider all ready. This is for your child so interview a lot of providers at least 3 then you can make a more informed decision.
Good luck!
Love: Mrs. Laurie
I would love there to be a sheet for DCP when interviewing parents. I have found a lot is hidden and we don't find out until later. There should be some sort of sheet for us when doing interviews of questions that WE can ask parents.
I agree with Mrs. Laurie on shopping around for a daycare. NEVER EVER CANCEL an interview!
I had one parent cancel an interview, and this is what she left on my answering machine, "I'm cancelling the interview because I found a cheaper and better daycare than you". First off, how do you know that they're better when you don't go to the interview, and secondly - cheaper?!?! I'm glad you care more about money than the safety and well-being of your child!
The daycare should suit you and the child care provider. I tell the parents that not every daycare is for every child!
Thanks for doing this Mrs. Laurie. Parents need to know that if they choose a licensed daycare they do not have to worry about criminal record searches, first aid and CPR training, safety of premises and outside area as all of this is covered by licensing regulations and are checked regularly at unannounced visits.
What parents need to know is the benefits of different types of care. In a licensed family childcare there are fewer children=less sickness and less time parents need to take off from work, no staff hierarchy (if you have a problem you speak with the caregiver not the manager--as in institutional centers), individualized care (only one caregiver for your child to get to know and trust not the large number as in a center), home setting (your child feels more comfortable), more flexibility with schedules and usually fees are less in family childcare.
Parents can ask to see the last inspection report for the childcare. This will show the hazard rating and any problems that need to be taken care of in the childcare. Parents may also phone the licensing board and ask if there are any investigations against the childcare and what the hazard rating is.
Thanks Mrs Laurie and horse girl.
I would suggest that parents chose a licensed day care over an unlicensed day care. I believe that there are good unlicensed providers too.
At the end of the day it comes down to personal work ethics.
Ask a lot of questions and take time in deciding. The most important question is whether your child will be comfortable there and gets the kind of care she needs. You know your child better than anyone and chose a place that will suit your child. Ask specific questions and address all your concerns while interviewing the provider. It might be useful to let the provider tell you what he/she expects from children in a particular age. You do not want her dismissing you later saying that your child is needy.
All babies are needy and to different extents. Thats why they are dependents.
It is harder when they are under 15 months ...some babies are a lot more needy than the others and your "angel" provider might turn you down after knowing your baby needs more attention than the others.
Horsegirl - Just to let you know that there are many unlicensed home daycare that are great - Parents just have to do their proper research.
I am an unlicensed home daycare, and yes, I do have police check up to date, and all my training. I also have a rule that my daycare is Open Door Policy, where parents can drop by at any time (just not during 1-3 p.m. as it's nap time). I have references that parents can call. I've worked at many different daycare centers, nursery schools, and have been a nanny to 3 different families before I've opened up a home daycare.
I am only accepting 3 full-time children, as I'm not in it for the money, but for the quality childcare that I believe these children should receive. I want what is best for the children I care for, and see that they are learning as well as having fun!
Parents, just like caregivers, have to research/interview the places they're interested in putting their children!
Hi Play and Learn--you are absolutely right there are a lot of quality license not required childcares and you sound as if you offer one of these. My point was that if parents are concerned about these issues they should know that there are ways to make sure that these issues are addressed.
The rules and regulations in our area state that an unlicensed childcare may only have 2 children or a sibling group of only 3. Are your regulations different?
Unfortunately many license not required caregivers are not concerned about upgrading their education, getting criminal record searches for themselves and all family members, have Child Safe First aid and CPR, and doing many changes to their homes to make it as safe as possible for the children.
I decided to become licensed so that I could offer the quality, safe, nurturing care that licensing requires. Yes, there are some licensed caregivers that do not abide by the regulations, but at least they can be monitored by the licensing officers and hopefully caught. Many of us have to supplement the family income, love children and want to offer the type of care that we would want for our own children.
I truly believe in family childcare compared to institutional centers,as there have been many investigations, allegations and charges against the centers for mental, physical, sexual abuse and neglect. It is hard to find such incidents with family childcares. When there are so many caregivers it is hard to monitor their behavior when they are caring for the children.
In our area the ECE's and the Child Care Coalition is sending a proposal to the government to start Early Years Centers (Universal Child Care). ECE's will run these centers, fees will be capped at a low level (government will pay you and it will not be what caregivers are charging now) and you may not charge the parents anymore, caregivers may still run out of their homes, but unless you are licensed and sign a contract with the government, you will not be paid the fee from the government (means that parents will have to pay more for your care), daily programs will all be the same, ECE's will work with kindergarten teachers and offer daycare in the classroom before and after kindergarten, the same as grade one. Family child caregivers will loose kindergarten and grade one students in their care. Infants will have a space at a center which is publicly funded (tax payer funded) All of these proposals will put the license not required and the licensed caregiver out of business. I don't know which area you live in, but are you having these issues?
We are going to have to be very careful in this discussion because each province has different regulations about how many children that can be cared for, the age mix and if a license is required. To say unlincensed will mean different things in different provinces. In Ontario for instance there is no such thing as a licensed caregiver. We have licensed daycare centres and we have agencies that are licensed to contract with individual caregivers for services and they do inspections but those caregivers themselves are not licensed. A caregiver in Ontario can care for up to 5 children. Therefore I am not licensed as such but have been a daycare provider for 23 years and would like to think I provide an excellent service to parents. It is not about being licensed that makes the difference. At the same time it is up to the parents that contract with me to monitor the care I am providing and they are in a better place to do that than a supervisor that stops in once a month even if it is unannounced. Just a reminder that for this thread if everyone wouldn't mind saying what province they are in when they post so that there are no hard feelings or misinterpretations. Just because I live in Ontario and can not be licensed means I can be just as good a caregiver as someone that lives in another province that offers licensing.
I am glad we are having this discussion of how many children should be under a provider. I am aware of providers who have many kids, sometimes many under 15 months...the rules on this are not clear.
Whether it is an institution or a home day care ( licensed/unlicensed)....it definitely comes down to personal ethics.
In an institution, issues concerning abuse ( mental, physical, neglect) come to light more often. However, I cannot rule out the fact that there are a few providers who neglect and as far a abuse goes...it goes unnoticed.
One cannot really determine if a child under 15 months ( until they can actually talk) is abused or not. In a home day care though, this is behind closed doors and unfortunately there are bad apples.
For now here is what I think neglect is..
What is neglect?
1.Does your child come back with a diaper rash? ( which clears away during weekends and comes back at the day care) Please note that diaper rash could happen due to diarrhoea, food patterns and teething too. You have to monitor long enough to see if it is a day care hygiene issue
2. Do a few drop ins and check whats going on...what is your child doing. If your child is constantly crying what is your day care provider doing?
3. Does your child wake up crying and seems stressed? An otherwise happy child is now turning unhappy.
4. Does you child seem happy with your provider when you drop in?
5. Does your child look tired and hungry?
6. Does your child want to go back or cries signing to leave (showing the car, heart pounding etc)
7. Its time up when the provider starts complaining about your kid constantly...he/she is not interested to make an effort anymore and it is bad news.
Talk to him/her openly to see if he/she wants out.
8. If things do not improve in three weeks no matter what the circumstance is find a different provider.
9. Trust your child's cues however sweet your provider is. If your child is not happy thats what is important.
There are different kinds of providers...
some care more about the eating and sleeping especially with younger toddlers and babies
Some focus on eating, sleeping and some educational activity
Some are particular about milestones...check what are the expectations of your provider
For example how independent does you provider expects your child to be.
As a parent be honest and discuss what your child can and cannot do.
(You cannot ultimately expect a 11 month old to sit in circles and enjoy it...neither can you expect a 12 month old to say a few words...not all children do this..
Some walk at 10 and some at 15..)
Of course it is easier on the provider if your kid is more independent but if your kid is not, then chose a provider who understands the needs of your child.
At the end of the day, your child's happiness and safety is most important.
I agree with this! I am also an unlicenced daycare provider. I'm in Alberta and for us, we're allowed to have 6 children plus our own. I take pride in my job and the kids are my #1 priority. I want what is best for them whether it be a good sleep schedule, eating, meeting milestones...the whole works! My daycare is a daycare I would want my children to go to. I have a lot of teacher families, a waiting list to get into my daycare and i think that says a lot about my daycare quality.Quote:
Originally Posted by playfelt
Advice I would give to parents...interview interview interview. Ask questions, look around the daycare space, check out the yard etc. and don't let price be the decision factor for you. Cheaper doesn't always mean better BUT more expensive doesn't always mean better either. Ask for criminal record check, child intervention checks and make sure it's the right fit (philosophy, child rearing, and discipline) for your family.
I don't really like drop in visits, although if a parent wanted to drop in they could. They would have to take their child home with them though when they leave as it's not fair to the child as to why mom/dad came and then didn't take them home with them. I think it's cruel.
So how many children and what age groups can you have as an unlicensed provider
in Ontario. What are the regulations likewise for a licensed provider?
Does anyone know the rules clearly?
Ontario law states, "In Ontario, caregivers who look after five or fewer unrelated children under the age of 10 do not have to be licensed.
Unlicensed child care are private arrangements made between the parents and the caregiver. Another name for unlicensed child care is informal child care." (http://edu.gov.on.ca/childcare/choosing.html#informal)
Was just going to post this same concept. Feel free to drop in unannounced but when you leave you take your child with you. There is no way I am going to resettle a child in the middle of the morning because mom had a few extra minutes on her coffee break and thought she would pop in. It is a matter of trust and if the parent does not take their child then they have breached that important bond. The child trusted the parent when they said they would come back for them later. Well they are there later and now child thinks they have been lied to so they learn to distrust parent and then me as the caregiver for letting it happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by fruitloop
I first introduced this for a family that I didn't find out until week 2 after they had disrupted us 3 times each of those weeks that mom had taken her 3 weeks of vacation time for after child started care so she could monitor us. Well starting with week 3 the whole concept of how the visits were effecting the child and the fact the other children didn't understand if one parent came why the other parents didn't come right after that from now on she would have to take the child with her. She only came one more time after that - I think just to see if I was serious.
In Ontario you can have 5 children who have not reached their 10th birthday. Children over 10 do not count in your numbers. Your own children also do not count in your numbers. There are no restrictions as to the age mix that you can have.
If you contract with an agency, the agency will have their own additional rules such as age mix and if your own children count. There can still only be a maximum of 5 daycare children. Only the agency is licensed and not the individual caregiver.
If there are to be more than 5 children then the facility has to register as a daycare centre which is then a business and no longer a home.
Hi
I think it is hard on the child when the mom drops in and leaves. But as a parent it takes time to develop a bond with the provider.
When you say "open door policy" thats what it means...drop in any time except nap time.
Once things settle in and the child starts loving the provider,it is no longer an issue.
I think providers understand that it is hard for parents to leave the children with anyone in the beginning.
Most providers are mothers themselves.Let us not forget that many of them chose to stay home to also take care of their children so that they do not have to leave them with someone else.
What my parents do is call me throughout the day. Leave a message if I don't pick up, as I'm likely doing potty routine, outside walking/playing or putting them down for a nap.
Even though I'm open door policy, I do state in my manual that if you are coming and your child sees you, be prepared to take them home with you. It's only fair.
When the day care becomes a second home, children do not want to leave. If they fuss over a parent's visit, it is usually short lived. But that takes time and both parents and providers should understand this.
This is not always the case. A lot of children (actually most children) would much rather be home with a parent than at daycare for 9 hours a day. Coming for a "visit" in the middle of the day is not only disrupting to the child but also other children in care AND to the daycare provider. It's not that we're hiding anything, it's to keep peace in the environment. When 1 child acts out because their parent came to see them and then left ...again...without them, it's not only that child that is disrupted...everyone is disrupted by them being upset. I would have to take that 5, 10, 15, 20, or however long calming the child back down to be a part of the group again. I don't think that's very fair to the other kids to take that time away from them or an activity because I was busy calming a child back down because their parent came for a drop in visit to check up on me and then didn't take the child back with them. I understand that it's hard to leave a child with someone you don't know but if there is something really wrong going on, your child will let you know...even as an infant there would be signs and cues that something is not right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrtah
I understand that it is hard on different levels for providers too. But then most times you do not know a provider very well when you start.
A little bit of monitoring is essential because not all of them out there are good. They promise something and do something.In any case, it is to check if your child is coping...even if you trust the provider.
It is true the child shows signs but a child also reacts differently when you start in a new place ..it is sometimes hard to tease out what is wrong.
Trust comes with communication and time ...I do not think parents should constantly drop in but it might be important to do that in the initial times...have to keep it short.
I guess if the provider is not ok with this, then its up to the parents whether they want to go with the provider or not.
No one is saying the parent can't drop in all we are saying is that we will only settle the child once, and now that you have seen, you need to take your child and go so the rest of the children can go on with their day. It isn't rude, it isn't selfish it is realistic and it is in the best interest of everyone involved - especially the child. With a daycare centre that has an open door policy there is a director or usually another adult to help the parent peek in the door and see their child at play and often they don't even interact with their child. In a home daycare environment it is just me and at any given point in the day I have a baby in bed, a child on the potty, another one wanting me to get something for them or we have finally gotten everyone settled and I am reading a story when the parent arrives. Basically it shifts the focus for everyone including me from the learning that we were to be doing. The visits are for the parent, not the child and it is hard to let an adult disrupt the lives of that many children. When I had an older group I had less of an issue with parents dropping in and if they let me know even a bit in advance they were invited for lunch. With babies I just find my day is so welded there is little room for disruption to the routine. It is hard enough for me to work in the new child's routine to my day without having someone disrupt even my regular kids. Do it once fine. Do it a second time and you take your baby with you and I put my energies into settling the other children that didn't deserve to be disrupted. This is going to sound really bad and stereotyping but in 23 years of daycare the only parents that did the drop in unannounced also tended to be my most difficult to deal with parents and my most fretful hard to self settle babies. I'm sure there is a connection there somewhere and I know that isn't an across the board truth it just has been for me. Being able to give references for current families helps a great deal and if I get the sense at the interview that the family seems nervous about daycare I will mention that to my families and give them a heads up if a woman called .... calls for a reference you might want to talk about what it is like as a parent putting their child into care as much as you talk about the care itself. And that does help.
This is understandable, if a parent drops by too many times a day just because the parent is anxious, it is bad for everyone especially the children there.
And my heart goes out to good home day care providers who try to spin the day with so much in their agenda.
Sometimes when a baby cries during the initial settle-in times, it is hard for providers who have more than two babies. One starts crying and all the others follow. On top of it you have to clean, cook plan your schedules, activities...it is too much for one person to handle.
However, parent anxiety vanishes with trust and confidence.
All I am saying is one visit (or even different unannounced pickup times like how you suggest) is good enough to get an idea of how things are.
The harsh truth out there is there are some really bad providers who neglect and on the face might be very smooth with the parent. It really is a two-way thing. Either parties should win trust. Sometimes, having many babies ( especially a mix and match age group) is a very tricky business. The provider ideally wants all babies to follow a routine ( there is no other way when it is a one-man army) ..some are too young or not yet ready to fall into the routine.
I have seen disasters because of this. You do find some disturbing things when you drop in.
Experience is a must but ethics makes experience count.
You are also bringing up another area of disagreement that comes between parents and caregivers. I try to make it clear at the interview that I am not being hired by the family as their nanny and while I will be taking care of their child's needs it will be within the context of the group and that means sometimes the baby will be put down while I change another child or serve a meal. I also am usually interviewing a few months before baby will start anyways and I impress upon the parents that it is their responsibilty to get the child ready for daycare and that means being able to self sooth to fall asleep, etc. In any family each child deserves their time and attention from the parent and it is a juggling act - lopsided in favour of the newest child in the group at least to start but parents have to recognize that we do not have all day to carry, entertain, sooth any one child in our care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrtah
Any child can be put into a routine and no child is to young to be put on 1...unless the child is under 3 months old. Children thrive on routines and consistency. All children in my care are expected to fall into routine with everyone else and like playfelt said, expected to self sooth, self feed for the most part, etc. I don't have time to coddle a child. A new child in care needs a little extra attention for the first few days - week to feel safe and learn the routine but after that I just can't give so much attention to just 1 child, it's not fair to everyone else. Playfelt, I have a feeling I'll be "ya that" ing you a lot on here...lol.
Very well put!!!! I absolutely agree! Just because I choose not to work through an agency (who is licenced) doesn't mean that I lack experience, education, or don't continually seek to improve my experience and education.Quote:
Originally Posted by playfelt
It usually gets interesting when a group of caregivers gets together and starts talking about daycare. There can be some very fine lines drawn in the sand and number of years in daycare, number and age of their own children, and a few other factors I have noted but will not divulge - so please no one ask,lol - It just is very interesting how the dynamics of caregivers is influenced by these factors. Already I can start to see some polar opposite opinions emerging on this forum and that is great as long as we remember no matter how right we think we are it is just our own opinion. It is nice having someone that backs you up though. Trends in parenting come and go and change each year and that has more of an influence than anything. I do daycare much like I raised my own four kids and the daycare kids came before my current group while at the same time respecting the style of those new to daycare staying home with their own baby and trying to establish daycare under the current trends - not all of which are ideal sometimes.
I know, when I first read this string /posts this afternoon I thought WOW! The diversity of a group can make things very interesting. The only thing that has raised a few hairs for me is the possible 'assumption' that agency/licensed childcare is better than non-licensed/agency childcare. I have worked in: a nursery school, did respite care, 2 daycare centres, best start summer camp, agency home daycare, home daycare, live out nanny etc. I have worked as a home daycare provider with and without my ECE. I can tell you truthfully that I am not a better or worse daycare provider because I have my ECE BUT I am a MUCH better caregiver without being affiliated with an agency :)
Each and every daycare is unique just like every family's needs are unique :) If we all had the same daycare and all the families had the same needs, this forum could indeed be very dull!
Both caregivers and parents who need childcare have to make the most informed decision and then decide what is best for them :)
Talking about routines,
how many naps should a child get...every child is different but what do you guys suggest
or babies under a year and the group between 13-18 months...etc.
Most of my little ones start to transition around 13mth, to one nap. During the transition time sometimes the little ones are "11o'clockish" meaning that they need to eat early (around 11) then go to bed shortly after. At the moment I have one 18mth old in my care who still needs a morning nap (especially during growth spurts) but I also have a 15mth old who has never had 2 naps at my house.
My "2 nap kids" start to transition with a short (no more than an hour) morning nap 8:30 - 9:30... remembering that most of theses kids are up around 6:30 or earlier.
Then they go down for nap with the older children around 12:30.
Thanks Niveah I so agree with you.As a provider in hamilton ontario the children I currently care for are 2 or under and i have 4 as well as 1 before school aged sibbling and 1 after school sibbling . Seems how i focus on the little people I tend not to try for the circle time. I do alot of free play and try to get them intrested in music and movement be it on their knees or if they are walking around. I have never had a child unhappy with my care yet and have only had to ask 1 to leave and it was a parent issue rather then the childs issue. So i agree when choosing a care giver take your cue from your child.Also alot of provider will offer 1 or 2 free drop in days before the day your child is do to start to get your child used to going. My door is always open and when a parent is picking up they just come right in .Many a parent will come in quietly and see what their child is doing before letting them know they are their.
One other comment about self soothing. At this time I have 3 children 2 and under and my 4th starting next month.Out of the 3 i have now all are different.The 2 year old definitely self sooths and i admit it is nice .You change his bum lie him down give him his bottle and blanket he sleeps for a minimum of 2 hours .The next oldest is 1 1/1 and she definitely does not self sooth .She needs snuggles to go to sleep .My third is my youngest right now just turned 1 and he is learning to self sooth .However unlike the other he will only sleep maybe a hour and needs quite to do so. Its a challenge but i manage like this. The 2 year old goes down first as he needs the longest time and will sleep through world war 2 lol.Followed by about an hour later for the youngest ,then once he is down i have time to give the cuddlier her time.Sometimes its a juggling act but its a learning curve for care giver and child and eventually you know who needs what. Sure would be great if it was so easy as to just say OK nap time and they all went to sleep lol that's just not realistic IMO
Thank you busy bee. It is nice to see that there are different philosophies among providers and I am so glad that parents can choose what suits their children best.
Routines are good and ofcourse babies can be trained to follow a routine. However, every child has different needs and until 18 months ( atleast 15 months) things cannot be very strict and fast.
For some kids morning nap can do wonders for the rest of the day.
A little bit of flexibility can be a big blessing!
It is that easy. I've never had to self sooth a child to sleep. I put all my kids to bed, tuck them in, tell them it's nap time and wish them a good sleep and close the door. They all go to sleep. I agree that with young children under 18 months you need to have a little flexibility. I give young ones a morning nap if they need it. To deprive a child of sleep that needs it is ridiculous. It makes for a miserable morning for everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by busybee
Most children learn very quickly that the rules at home and daycare can be different and it is really interesting when I see the changes. Sometimes it is the parent either just assuming or doing things that make them feel better like taking a soother from their pocket and giving it to a 2 year old because they can't go without she says but as soon as mom is out the door out goes my hand and child gives me the soother and goes off happily to play. Mom went off comforted and that is fine but child shouldn't have to suffer for the day. For napping I put them down, talk briefly about it being sleepy time and leave them. For those that do cry I go back at intervals, assure them it is still naptime, lay them down and leave. It rarely takes more than a couple weeks for them to settle into the routine.
A lot of caregivers don't remember the days before the one year maternity leave but "way back then", lol, children came into care between 4-6 months depending on when mom started her mat leave. The children were just babies and therefore much more pliable and it was much easiesr to mold them into ideal daycare babies. Now we only get that if mom was willing for the last 6 months of her mat leave. All too often our role for the first couple months is undoing what was done for the past 6 months or doing what should have been done for the past 6 months but wasn't. Then the child fits into the childcare group really easily. It isn't that what the parent did was wrong so please no one jump on me for that all I am saying is that what works for a mom and baby such as rocking the child and even holding them while they sleep is just not part of daycare in a group setting. It is the child that suffers in the long run and the sooner parents come on board and reinforce some of the concepts at home the better for everyone.