What would you do? (nap issue)

Ok here is the scenario...
5 kids, 3 nappers, 2 non nappers.

The non nappers are a 4.5 year old and 2.5 year old. The 2.5 year old in my opinion needs to be napping, in parents opinion he doesn't go to bed well if he has had even a 15 min nap. So for months now my quiet time has been watching a movie, reading etc with these 2 while the others nap.
Now, come Sept my 4.5 year old is leaving for school.
So, I would like to see everyone nap and for once in months to actually get a break?
Problem is, this 2.5 year old has slept with mom his whole life so, he cries and whines mommy mommy mommy for a long time. Luckily my other nappers know it's nap time and tune him out and go right to sleep. Today was the first experimental day where I put him in the nap room. His mommy mommy crys were heart breaking and lasted about 35 minutes, he is now asleep.
Knowing the parents don't really want him sleeping, the heart breaking hurt this child seems to feel without sleeping with mom, do I continue this pattern daily?
It obviously worked out, I believe children need naps at 2.5 years old and the break for me would be great too!
What would you do?

I tell my parents at the INTERVIEW that all children under the age of 4 nap here (or have quiet time). If they don't like my rules there's the door. I NEED MY BREAK. They get it.

If the child does not sleep/rest, then they get termed. The parents also don't tell me what to do while I have their child in my care. MY RULES.

If the parent continues to complain/whine about the situation about the child not sleeping during the day, it's not our problem. Like you stated, children need naps! It's obviously the night-time routine that needs to be changed!

I hear what your saying! Really I do, but heres the other part. He wakes up after about 45 minutes today. Right back to the same state of mind, except worse! Crying mommy, I want to go home. He just keeps crying after I have woke all the kids up for snack, he is still out of sorts...just crying for no reason. He's puffy eyed, red faced...looks terribly sad. It almost seems like more work then it's worth at this point. Maybe I should give it a few more days and see if he adjusts? We had a talk about why naps are good for our bodies and he kept saying ok and nodding over the tears :(

All children are required to nap/have quiet time here too. It's mandatory and in my contract. Parents who have a hard time getting their child to bed at night has nothing to do with the child napping and everything to do with putting their foot down at bed time. The child will get use to napping, just give it some time and he will fall suit with everyone else.

Same as fruitloop stated:

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The child will get use to napping, just give it some time and he will fall suit with everyone else.

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Do NOT go into him at nap time. The child needs to learn that it is quiet time, and this is how things are done at daycare.

I'm not sure what your setup is like but here is how I dealt with a similar situation. I have a 3 year old who does not sleep, although parents want him to. My playroom is separated from the kitchen by a gate. He must sit/lie on his mat and have quiet time alone. He is allowed books but no toys. I sit in the kitchen, have lunch, read etc. I can see him but there is no contact!!! Works perfectly and he often falls asleep anyway!

I think if you are going to commit to letting a child grow accustomed to naptime, then out of fairness to the child, you need to commit. He did well today, if this is the first time in his 2.5 year life that he fell asleep alone! I would definitely keep at it! I think he will adjust quickly and you all will see big changes in him thanks to the sleep! Do you need to tell his parents? Tell them you have a new nap policy that everyone lies down for 30 minutes, and only if they're still up after that time can they come do a quiet activity?

Is there a room he can sleep in on his own, or does your state allow that? We aren't regulated so I always have a newbie learn to nap in their own room and then integrate them into my group room once they are good at falling asleep.

So did you have him when he used to nap? Or did he come to you, as a non-napper? My policy is all children under 3 have an afternoon nap, and the others have quiet time. This is when we can put on a movie or some music, we can read or do puzzles, play a quiet game, etc. The bottom line is....shhhhhh. The kids know that I will not be playing "with them". I use this time to get things done, or just have a little bit of time to relax.
I agree that if this is the first time that he has fallen asleep on his own, he did pretty well all things considered. You mentioned; "the heart breaking hurt this child seems to feel without sleeping with mom". As much as I am okay with co-sleeping arrangements, it is still necessary for a child to learn to sleep by themselves.
I would recommend that you speak with mom and dad, though. If he is a full-timer, then it's important that they know what your day-to-day is. Otherwise, if you continue to put him down for naps when they are under the impression that you are not, in my mind it's dishonest. Explain to them that being at daycare is very stimulating both mentally and physically for a toddler, and that by mid-afternoon thier little angel is beyond ready for a rest, both mentally and physically. Ask about bedtime, and it's routine. If mom and dad are putting him down at 6:30 or 7, because they are probably tired, then he will definitely give them trouble at bedtime.
As for continuing to cry after nap; it sounds to me like he is still tired! Hard to say, but I would keep it up. In order to strike a compromise, perhaps you can put him down to sleep last and wake him up first?

I hear you all about mandatory nap time, but I just want to share my experiance with my own daugther. She was 2.5 when she started at a daycare in the neighbourhood, her and 2 other 3 yos were the only ones that napped while the older kids (my son included who was 4) had quiet time (movie, or puzzle or whatever). Now I have ALWAYS been strict about our bedtime routine, as I learned with my son, its a necessity!! On the rare occasions they did give me any trouble you can belive my foot was already down!! LOL! My kids go to bed very easily even now at 5 and 6years old. However, I did notice about 2m into our daycare arrangement, despite our clockwork bedtime routine, (ended in bed at 8pm) she was still awake at 10pm. On the weekends and holidays when she was home with us, she stopped napping all together and was suprisingly fine, bedtime was normal. However, after speaking with the provider even though she was waking after an hour now (down from 2 hrs) she still maintained that she needed that nap and flat out refused to let her go without to see how it went. So her late nights continued. When we left care, she stopped napping all together and really very few problems with the adjustment. My son at 3.5 had more problems adjusting to no nap than she did. So being on the other end of it, I try to be flexible regarding nap time, of course if the child is miserable b/c of missed nap, then she's clearly not ready, but sometimes I think it is possible that they are ready to give up that nap at a younger than average age.... I must say that as a parent I was slightly miffed that my provider did not think I knew what my child did (or in this case did not) need and would not work with me that way.... especially since she already had so many non-nappers.

Although it does sound like this little guy still needs his nap, he just needs to get used to going to sleep w/o his mom. I think if he's co-slept all of his life it would be a big adjustment to make for him to go to sleep w/o his mom at daycare, but I would imagine if you are consistent and give it some time he will learn to do it, hopefully sooner rather than later!

Every child has his own sleep requirements, we know that as caregivers, but there is no child who needs no rest even if he/she does not sleep during that rest. And we need our mental sanity too: why do we cut ourselves so short as caregivers? If we do not care for ourselves, we will get burned out and resent constantly being on-deck when the reality is, they should be resting.

I have parents all the time trying to manipulate the nap issue and it is for their own selfish good, not the good of the child. They are overworked, long hours, shift work, whatever, or just want to get rid of the child in the evening as early as possible. No family time, no wonder these little ones are sad and stressed out.

I stick to my guns on the nap issue: parents have to understand that we are functioning as a group and if they want individual schedules they should hire a nanny. Daycares don't work that way...period. So I let them know square and clear that the sleep routine is non-negotiable.

I have parents all the time whining about how the daytime nap is ruining their evening go-to-bed schedule...well what about the overly-tired whiny child of theirs I have to put up with all day, who is exhausted and needs a nap? Do they ever stop to consider how wearing this is on the nerves of a caregiver dealing with a grumpy, non-co-operative child? No of course not, so they (the parents) have to be "disciplined". Either they suffer or you suffer. Decide. Don't be desperate.

We are not servants; we are running a credible business and a tough one at that. Because we are caregivers we have a certain personality type which is not attune to being hard-nosed. It is hard to be a caring person towards children and tough with their parents, but you have to be otherwise we will end up burned out and resentful like many of us describe on here.

It requires a change of attitude towards ourselves as caregivers. We love the children but we have to primarily take care of ourselves and our energy levels by showing ourselves the respect that parents don't.

Be fussy about who you take on as parents: they need to be "trained" from the get-go. Easier said than done, but if you don't like them from the beginning...forget it...don't even take them on. A clear written policy which forms A. part of the contract and B signed by the parents at the get-go will serve as a starting point. Revise it twice as year as issues arise for you or whenever you take on new parents...update it to serve your needs and protect yourself...then when things get tough you have your policy and conditions to fall back on. They form an integral part of the contract and the parents are violating the contract by not respecting your terms and conditions. Sounds tough as nails but hey...it's that or get walked all over.

I believe sleep is crucial to the brain and body's development and as parents (and caregivers) we need to ensure our children learn to like, value, appreciate sleep.

My just turned 3 yr old has big naps still and sleeps 11-12hrs at night. On occasion she doesn't need a nap BUT she still goes to bed with the same routine and she happily lies there near silent for 2 hrs. She sings, talks, plays and stares at the ceiling. There are other nights where she did a huge nap and therefore isn't ready for sleep at 8pm...but she is in bed, alone in the dark at 8pm and she again just lies there still, quiet and calm.

I think we NEED to have children learn to appreciate the still and quiet time. They need to learn to just think and process and relax. BUT this is a long, painful process for the adult because it means months and years of training on our part to make sure we do NOT allow poor sleep habits to form. It is just easier to exhaust kids so they don't put up a fuss or to cave to their many demands to stall the bed routine or to engage when they try to get up over and over and over. My daughter is HIGH energy, non-stop chatterbox with a very fast moving brain (like turbo speed) but she knows she is to rest in bed when we put her there. She knows she is not allowed to get out of bed once we put her there. This process was learned through a lot of work on our part. We NEVER left her to cry it out or anything like that...we just slowly worked to the end goal we wanted and we made sure to never allow her sleep to get to something we didn't want. If you don't want your 3 yr old running out of their bed all night you don't let you infant out of their bed at night.

It is harder to untrain than it is to train.

A movie at nap time provides NO rest for the child, though it is a totally acceptable way to keep them distracted so you get YOUR rest which is also crucial. But what goes on the in the brain of a child watching tv is NOTHING like rest. I am not against tv by any means but we do need to be careful when we use the terms rest with watching tv.

Wow, there's some strong opinions on this thread (which I see if from 2011 :)). I felt the need to chime in because I see things differently than most people on this topic. As a daycare provider, I absolutely understand the need to have a break in the afternoon. But as a parent of a 3 year old who if he naps during the afternoon is up past 10:00 at night, I can also relate to all those parents who beg their providers not to make their children nap. It's a vicious cycle. Of course if children are up until 10:00 at night then they are not ready to get up at 6:00-6:30 in the morning when most working parents have to get them up. Then they are miserable by late morning, which makes providers think that clearly the child still needs a daily nap. What many people don't realize is that if these particular children did not nap and went to bed at a normal time each night, then they would have a good long sleep and be well rested and happy during the day.

So am I selfish, whiny parent because I want my child to go to sleep before I do at night? Am I bad because I want them to wake up rested in the morning instead of me trying to drag them out of bed? Just like daycare providers who like some down time during the day, are working parents not entitled to some down time at night? We too have taught our kids that if they can't fall asleep that they should just lay in bed. I'm very fortunate that neither of my kids are constantly getting up or calling out. But I wouldn't expect them to do that for 2+ hours on a regular basis.

I do have quiet time at my daycare, but I respect the parent's wishes if they ask that their child not nap and just do quiet activities instead. I'm not suffering because of it. I still relax during that time. And parents aren't evil (as least most aren't). They aren't making such a request to be manipulative. They don't need to be trained. They just know what their child needs.

Dcb here just turned 4 so they have asked me to remove his cot and give him quiet activities to do with the idea he'll sleep better at night and be ready for JK. This isn't a problem at all for me, the kid is a gem. Only thing is he always falls asleep on his activity on the rug for last hour and I'm not going to wake him every time he sleeps. He loves sleeping mid day. Do u let the older kids sleep if they happen to fall asleep?

I simply do the math, if a two year old is here for 10 hours a day, add the hour (min) to get here and home, 11 hours, throw in dinner for an hour, 12hours, that means they only have another 12 hours at home....so there is no way they are getting enough sleep at home unless all they do is eat dinner and get ready to come here in the morning. I have had many parents ask for early doscontinue of naps too, but I also know that a lot of those parents like to get their kids to bed by 730-8 at night. I also believe that an over tired sleep deprived child has a much harder time going to bed at night than one that gets a good healthy much needed 10-12 hours a day/night. So I firmly believe that a child that has trouble going to bed at night is because the bedtime routine is not working, not because they had an hour or two nap after lunch. I am firm on mandatory naps/quiet time too

Must Nap, and mandatory nap always makes me giggle. How on earth do you make someone nap lol

I do not have nap time, I have quiet time, that way it is all inclusive regardless. Everyone goes for some quiet time and rest. If a child falls asleep then that is their body naturally getting what it needs...some shut eye. For other kids they may lay down for an hour and be awake but be chilled out and recharging. Don't underestimate the power of down time...not every child needs to sleep during the day contrary to belief but resting is important. Nighttime sleep is different.

If a parent requests that their child doesn't nap, I explain that should their child fall asleep it is out of my control and they obviously need the sleep. If a parent communicates to me that the child is struggling to go to sleep at night, I work collaboratively with them to identify any bedtime routine issues that might be causing problems and will maybe put their child down for an earlier rest time if necessary.

If there is one thing I've learned it is that no matter how much experience one has, every child is different and don't ever think that every child needs to sleep in the day. Yes, the vast majority but not all, there is no way anyone can know that for certain.

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Originally Posted by MsBell

I simply do the math, if a two year old is here for 10 hours a day, add the hour (min) to get here and home, 11 hours, throw in dinner for an hour, 12hours, that means they only have another 12 hours at home....so there is no way they are getting enough sleep at home unless all they do is eat dinner and get ready to come here in the morning. I have had many parents ask for early doscontinue of naps too, but I also know that a lot of those parents like to get their kids to bed by 730-8 at night. I also believe that an over tired sleep deprived child has a much harder time going to bed at night than one that gets a good healthy much needed 10-12 hours a day/night. So I firmly believe that a child that has trouble going to bed at night is because the bedtime routine is not working, not because they had an hour or two nap after lunch. I am firm on mandatory naps/quiet time too

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I guess we have to agree to disagree. A child who is wide awake, happy and ready to party for two hours at night because he had a two hour nap in the afternoon is not doing so because the bedtime routine is not working. He's just not tired! Now I'm not talking about an infant or a 1-2 year old. I'm talking about 3-4 year olds (and in some case a child who is 2.5 year old). Again, I use my own son as an example. When he naps, he will not go to sleep until at 10:00 at night and then be miserable in the morning because he's not ready to wake up. Thankfully having my own daycare means that he can sleep in a little longer in the morning. Most parents don't have that luxury. But if my son doesn't have a nap, he's great all day. He's not overtired or grumpy. And when bedtime comes at 8:00 (which I think is a realistic time for kids his age to go to bed), he falls asleep easily. So why wouldn't I want to stick to that schedule?

Sorry, I don't mean to vent. And I do agree that kids still need some down time during the day as well (along with daycare providers). I just think it's really important that we listen to the parents we work with and not just assume that every child is the same when it comes to sleep.

I guess the issue is where does the caregiver get her break? Yes it can be taken as selfish. But when u have five kids everyday and have activities all morning then lunch then u have to keep going in the afternoon with more activities for the non nappers even if it's quiet activities when does one get a break? The parents that ask to not nap their child get an hr lunch at work....to take a walk, run an errand, sit in quiet, to eat lunch. Caregivers deserve the same. A parent can not expect their caregiver to go non stop with their child for 10 hrs a day. Do they do that at home? Probably not. They can switch off to the other parent if they need a break. Caregivers don't have that option. It is this reason that I only take children under age four before they go to school and nap time is required here even for my three yr olds. It is just so unrealistic to ask me not to give myself a break exspecially on the busy schedule I run. And I don't find it a break when I have three yr olds sitting on my couch doing quiet activities and I'm constantly saying shhhhh. Been there and not again. :)

At the end of the day what it comes down to is the contract. If a family has signed on being told that ALL child MUST nap then the families need to either decide to accept the naps or move on to a center daycare where they can keep older children busy during this time.

It doesn't really matter who is right or wrong on the aspect of which kids need a nap. It falls to the contract. They have been informed that THIS daycare functions in this specific manner and they need to accept that or move on.

In my experience, it is often quite telling to see how the child behaves, sleeps after an extended absence. I am talking about the few children I have had who have a hard time going to bed at home during the week and the parents ask for no nap. Usually, these are the kids that want to go to sleep earlier and stay asleep longer the first day back from vacation, because they are over tired from not napping at home. If they truly don't need the nap, then why are they the first to fall asleep? I think it's because here, we have a routine, and at home, not so much.

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Originally Posted by Lee-Bee

At the end of the day what it comes down to is the contract. If a family has signed on being told that ALL child MUST nap then the families need to either decide to accept the naps or move on to a center daycare where they can keep older children busy during this time.

It doesn't really matter who is right or wrong on the aspect of which kids need a nap. It falls to the contract. They have been informed that THIS daycare functions in this specific manner and they need to accept that or move on.

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I do agree with this. That being said it does get a bit more complicated when a child starts when they are 1 years old and the nap issue doesn't come up until they are 3 or 4 years old. Such a situation puts everyone in a bit of a tough spot (the parents having to look for new daycare, the child who has developed a good relationship with their current daycare provider, and the daycare provider who has to now fill the spot which isn't always easy to fill). But again, I agree that if it's written in the contract, then a parent has to accept that. I think I was just defensive because some of the comments on this thread made it sound like it was bad parenting and selfish if their child didn't need to nap anymore. That I don't agree with. But I do agree that as daycare providers, we also need to do what best for us too. And that will be different based on a caregiver.

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Originally Posted by MommaL

I do agree with this. That being said it does get a bit more complicated when a child starts when they are 1 years old and the nap issue doesn't come up until they are 3 or 4 years old. Such a situation puts everyone in a bit of a tough spot (the parents having to look for new daycare, the child who has developed a good relationship with their current daycare provider, and the daycare provider who has to now fill the spot which isn't always easy to fill). But again, I agree that if it's written in the contract, then a parent has to accept that. I think I was just defensive because some of the comments on this thread made it sound like it was bad parenting and selfish if their child didn't need to nap anymore. That I don't agree with. But I do agree that as daycare providers, we also need to do what best for us too. And that will be different based on a caregiver.

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I can understand the frustration on your end (the parent) but I think a lot of us caregivers are frustrated with the high number of parents that request no naps but have no sleep routine, no sleep expectations and have no control over their child's sleep. It can be a touchy subject for all...but this job is hard and having to be on our feet the 10hr day because "those" parents whose kids are not sleeping at home (with or without nap and for reasons completely unrelated to naps) believe everything will be magically solved by us forcing their kids to stay awake (you know, the kids that are asleep within 10seconds of lying down because they are so exhausted).

I don't doubt many kids don't need that nap, are getting plenty of sleep at home and can function perfectly without any nap. BUT I do believe we have all seen that the number of kids that are not sleeping at home, are not functioning due to lack of sleep far outweigh the ones who are. It is those children that often make us clamp down on the nap rule...for everyone's sanity.

The kids with good sleep habits would be able to just hang out on their mat with a couple books being still and quiet (and not fall asleep within a short period of time). In this case there would be no issue over the nap or no nap because the caregivers is still getting their child free rest time even if some kids are awake on their mats.