How would you handle this dilemma?

Ok, ladies, I have a dilemma.

I have 2 dck's that will be leaving in the next few months...one will leave the end of school and the other will be going to a different school in the fall.

So, I met this mom at the school, who I've been talking to about care. She has 2 kids, a boy whose in jk and a baby girl. Originally she said she was going back to work around July, but now she says she can start a position within the next few weeks.

My dilemma is : do I fill the spots that I would need to fill in the next few months anyway or do I tell her no and keep the other kids and fill the spots then?

I'm torn because in order to take these new ones, I would have to give the others their notice early. What would you do if you were me?

Are you terming them or are they leaving due to school changes?

If they are leaving by their own choice, then in my mind, you do not have open spaces at this moment and the new mom will have to go on the waiting list.

The one dck is leaving because mom is having twins in July, the other is starting jk at another school.

I'm just afraid that when the time comes for them to leave, I won't be able to find 2 kids to fill their spots......and the mom will find other care.

I think it's just a risk that I would take as it's part of the job. I don't term one client because a better one comes along but that is just me and what I would do. I depend largely on word of mouth and I wouldn't want parents scared to come here because they've heard I term early to fill potential empty spots. I appreciate when parents give me lots of notice of them leaving but I wouldn't want them worried that I term them before they are ready to go. Hope that makes sense

It's a tricky one and I can see what 5LM is saying but don't necessarily agree....

5LM you mention...

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I don't term one client because a better one comes along

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That isn't what is happening here and I too do not do this.

also...

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I wouldn't want parents scared to come here because they've heard I term early to fill potential empty spots

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This would make sense, but in this particular instance, they aren't potential spots, these children ARE leaving.

If the tables were turned and the provider was expecting and gave a lengthy amount of notice, a huge amount if not the majority of parents would look for a replacement daycare provider and would leave as soon as they found an open spot, out of fear of not finding a suitable placement closer to the time. This makes good sense when the parent is looking out for THEIR best interests even if it leaves the provider suddenly down on numbers. It sucks but they have to look after their best interests not the other way around. I see this situation as similar.

Looking out for the best interests of your business should be your number one priority. I understand word of mouth is important, but you aren't giving notice because someone with shorter hours comes along, or you can charge a higher rate etc you are advertising to fill spots that are coming up and are faced with the option of replacing a family earlier, who are now a short term family, with someone who is more long term and from a business perspective are more financially sound as best as anyone can predict. They will provide you with more financial stability and certainty, versus the possibility of not filling those spots later on down the line which is when you may kick yourself.

I don't have a sure yes or no on what I would do. It would depend greatly on the individuals involved, my financial situation and my gut feeling.

I would speak to the Mom and ask her if she would be able to find alternate care sooner. I've always been able to speak freely to my parents regarding these types of things and they have always been accommodating as much as they can. JMO.

I personally wouldn't drop the 2 families early to take on this family. It just seems wrong to me. I would continue to advertise for the spaces for when they open up. You should have more than enough time to find a family for a July and a September spot. I can understand ending your contract a week or two before their intended end date for a new family but you are looking at ending the contract 4 and 6 months early which just seems to early to me.

What I dont understand is why the mom having twins in July is taking her kid out ? Isn't she going to have her hands full enough as it is without having to entertain an older child ? I have two moms currently on mat leave and one that just came back then one that just came back kept the older child in full time until the baby was was three months old and then switched to part time .... One of the two moms on mat leave now kept the older child full time till baby was 5 months and is now on part time and the other one who just had her baby this morning says she is keeping him in full time ... Why not suggest to the mom to keep older child in for several months at least to get some rest ... Not that there will be much resting with twins ....

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Originally Posted by bright sparks

It's a tricky one and I can see what 5LM is saying but don't necessarily agree....

5LM you mention... That isn't what is happening here and I too do not do this.

also... This would make sense, but in this particular instance, they aren't potential spots, these children ARE leaving.

If the tables were turned and the provider was expecting and gave a lengthy amount of notice, a huge amount if not the majority of parents would look for a replacement daycare provider and would leave as soon as they found an open spot, out of fear of not finding a suitable placement closer to the time. This makes good sense when the parent is looking out for THEIR best interests even if it leaves the provider suddenly down on numbers. It sucks but they have to look after their best interests not the other way around. I see this situation as similar.

Looking out for the best interests of your business should be your number one priority. I understand word of mouth is important, but you aren't giving notice because someone with shorter hours comes along, or you can charge a higher rate etc you are advertising to fill spots that are coming up and are faced with the option of replacing a family earlier, who are now a short term family, with someone who is more long term and from a business perspective are more financially sound as best as anyone can predict. They will provide you with more financial stability and certainty, versus the possibility of not filling those spots later on down the line which is when you may kick yourself.

I don't have a sure yes or no on what I would do. It would depend greatly on the individuals involved, my financial situation and my gut feeling.

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I totally get that we need to look out for our businesses best interest but imo, in the long run, this would do more harm than good. It is getting rid of one client to take on one that better suits the dcprovider in my eyes so yes it's terming because something better came along. All of the children will eventually leave our care so terming to accept a new one isn't right to me. But we all run our dc's differently.

As far as dcp becoming pregnant...I see your point but don't agree. Parents will have to leave because the dc is closing and have no other choice but to find another dc. We all know that children will leave our care but there are always other children needing dc. Sometimes it may take longer to fill a spot but that's a risk we all should have considered before choosing to open a hdc imo.

Op, all I can say is do what feels right to you! I try to put myself in others shoes and try to think how I would feel if i was the parent and my dcp did this to me after I was considerate and gave months of notice so she could fill the spot.

I agree with a lot of what others are saying. I had to let go of an awesome family last January. It was under different circumstances. They were two b/a care kids. I had plans to open my hdc a few months down the road but both my husband and I lost our jobs and I needed to open my daycare asap. Financially, I had to fill all spots full-time. I had no idea I was going to fill my spots so fast, I was lucky. So I made the decision to let them go to fill their spot. I felt HORRIBLE but it made sense. The parents pulled their kids out for about 2 months because dcd lost his job, I had no idea when or if they were coming back. During this time I lost my job, I was advertising like crazy! I filled my spots about 3 weeks after they came back. Now for me, I felt like it was the best 'business' decision because I needed the income, it was hard but a no brainer. I don't regret my choice but I do miss those girls and still wish I could have kept them.

In your post my you mention she might have a job opening in July. So she might not. I would be very honest with her and tell her that your spots are not open until the XX date. Because she might make the decision to go back earlier thinking the spots are open now. I'm sure if she knows, she will postpone it until then. If she can't she will tell you and then make the decision. I think its too early to stress over it. But if she is going back, and cant wait, maybe she can find someone to watch them until your spots are open. It's a tough decision but if I were in your shoes i wouldn't let the other families go earlier. But that's just me. I would try and work something out with all families involved.

Good luck!

I have termed a child going to JK in July when an ideal care situation presented itself and while I felt a tad guilty, I knew that they were never stuck because there is no shortage of high school kids looking for a summer job and the child would have loved the one on one for the summer and it would have been cheaper than what I charged anyways. I have only ever done it when the summer was involved meaning there were options.

I would never get rid of a family early to accommodate someone new. The spots open when the spots open and that is that. It doesn't seem like very good business to me to drop someone for something better and that is just not the kind of person I am nor want to be. I know parents do it all the time but so be it.

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Originally Posted by mickyc

I would never get rid of a family early to accommodate someone new. The spots open when the spots open and that is that. It doesn't seem like very good business to me to drop someone for something better and that is just not the kind of person I am nor want to be. I know parents do it all the time but so be it.

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Some people don't have the luxury of choice though if they are in financial hardship and daycare is competitive in their area and/or it is a dry spell.

Here we are 4 months into 2014 and I have had double the enquiries that I had for the whole of 2013. I understand it isn't ideal, and not something I ever plan to do, but certain situations present themselves and neither of them may be 100% ideal but it is the question of the lesser of two evils. This may not be the OP's situation but....To a provider who is only getting calls once or twice a month, the worry of filling those spots could have really bad consequences. Stress, anxiety, depression, physical illness as a result of the stress, all because you are putting the needs of the other family before yours. If I was in this situation and the family didn't have any back up, no family in the area, I likely wouldn't replace but that would have a really bad impact on my life and my families well being, and even though it may be the "right" thing to do, it is of no benefit to me. It's just not as cut and dry as "Oh I would never do that" What about the providers whose husband gets laid off and their households only source of income is a daycare provider who has multiple days open but nothing they can fill because originally they took part timers on so have days all over the place. How many full time enquiries do they turn away in the best interest of their current clients even though they can't pay their mortgage and are defaulting on their credit card bills? What I am saying is that it's not fair to replace families "just because", and maybe it isn't "best business practice" but maybe it is what some people have to do to survive. Let's not be so harsh in our judgement of others in situations like this when we know not what it is like to walk in their shoes. It is not an ideal situation to be in and anyone with a heart would feel conflicted, but it doesn't make them bad people or bad providers.

I didn't think I was being harsh. It still isn't something I would do. I rely heavily on my income and cannot afford to have a spot open either. I have a spot opening in a month and yes I have anxiety, worry as well, all the things you said but I still would not boot the family out that I have now just because someone needs a spot in 2 weeks. I have had a spot last year open for over a month, we made do, cut back, it kept me up at night etc. It is just the kind of person I am, I don't like it when families do it to me so I certainly wouldn't do it to any of them (and it has happened to me often). It is the hazards of working for ourselves and we need to be prepared in the event a spot cannot be filled. If the new family wants the spot bad enough they can make other arrangements while they wait for the spot to be open IMO.

This is just going to cause parents to not want to give much notice for fear they will loose their spot early. They will likely lie and then just give them minimum notice possible. I want as much notice as possible.

I understand what your saying bs. If it was a matter of a couple weeks and the family had alternate care then I would maybe (that's a big maybe tho) consider terming to accept the new family. However, in this situation, it's 3 and 5 months from now and I would think these spots could be filled in that time. Like I said earlier tho, I don't think terming early would benefit my business in the long run once word gets out.

I do agree though that we need to do what allows us to survive but how we do that will be different according to our personalities, morals and work ethics. There is no right or wrong way, just what we feel is the right choice for us and our business. It's a tough spot to be in for the OP and I wish her the best no matter what choice she makes!!

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Originally Posted by 5 Little Monkeys

I understand what your saying bs. If it was a matter of a couple weeks and the family had alternate care then I would maybe (that's a big maybe tho) consider terming to accept the new family. However, in this situation, it's 3 and 5 months from now and I would think these spots could be filled in that time. Like I said earlier tho, I don't think terming early would benefit my business in the long run once word gets out.

I do agree though that we need to do what allows us to survive but how we do that will be different according to our personalities, morals and work ethics. There is no right or wrong way, just what we feel is the right choice for us and our business. It's a tough spot to be in for the OP and I wish her the best no matter what choice she makes!!

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It's a tough spot to be in, I don't begrudge her tough decision. Last year I wasn't down on my numbers for a month or two, it was a full 12 months and my income was 1200 a month, down from just over 4000. Not even close to minimum wage before expenses. Prior to this I had on average 8 to 12 enquiries a month and then all of a sudden my town has now become saturated with stay at home mums charging $10-$15 less a day which people are more than willing to go with, so this wasn't something I could foresee happening after having 6/7 years never experiencing this, and having just bought a new place 2 months prior to the loss, I didn't have a years income sat in the bank. That is a huge difference, and while we managed it was at huge expense. My husband took a new job position and worked 60-70 a week which has dramatically effected his relationship with his children as a result of his absence. I wasn't presented with the same situation as the OP as there were just hardly any enquiries coming in for even unsociable hours let alone a normal part or full timer, but I would not put the needs of another family before my own if it cost me to do so. If that makes it seem to others like I have a poor character then so be it because they are not going to pay my bills or put food on my table. I have spent the majority of my time in this field prioritizing the needs of my daycare parents before mine and now I am paying the price. I have learnt my lesson through experience.

Referring back to what you said in an earlier post 5LM about a provider taking mat leave and a parent leaving early because the daycare is shutting...well it is just the same thing in my eyes. Why can't they stay till the date I am closing? Because they worry they won't get alternative care if they don't snatch that spot up when it presents itself which is fair enough although results in hardship for the provider. Well I think this is similar in that enquiries are not always consistent and there is the worry that you will turn those parents down now and then have a dry spell when your spots open. Yes it leaves your current parent in a tight spot now, but the parent leaving you early prior to mat leave, leaves you in a tight spot too. The same thing really.

That being said, I had two kids leave for school last September and I never bumped them because of other enquiries, even though they were scarce I still had September enquiries. I am just saying not to be so quick to judge (not aimed at anyone specific), and/or be so quick to say you would act one way or another until you are presented with this situation and have to face a difficult choice. I don't make any decision lightly which is evident in the simple fact that I have put off closing my daycare for a few years now to go to school for the benefit of my daycare families. One more year and I have fulfilled my commitment period and I will have no issue leaving the other families hanging. It's time I looked out for number one a little bit more! Somebody has to ;)

I'm with MickeyC. I'd never let an existing client go to make room for a new one out of convenience. I totally get the need to put food on the table. As a single parent with a mortgage, children of my own, almost never getting child support and as many bills as anyone else, I'm still able to do that, even with empty spaces. Is it ideal? Not so much, but part of the job, in my mind. To each his/her own, but I can imagine that it could, as stated before, that a reputation for that sort of thing could become a problem in the future. I always factor in empty spaces. I NEED 3 kids to stay afloat. 4 kids is great. 5 is awesome and I tuck money away. I have 4 parents that have either just gone on mat leave or are going on it very soon. They were honest with me and we discussed options and they committed to paying me until the firm date they'd set to leave, regardless or when they actually did leave. This allowed me to advertise and subsequently fill all those spaces as soon as I knew they were pregnant and they'd had a month to think about what they wanted to do with the space.

Something you also have to think about is that a new family is never a guarantee either. You may make room for a new family (by getting rid of one that is a guarantee for a set amount of time anyways) only to have the new family leave shortly after. So she gets rid of the old families for new ones and then the new ones find something better and leave and you end up having to fill again anyways - you have had to go through the transitioning etc but if you would have stuck with the old family to start with they you wouldn't have had that.

There is nothing that ticks me off more than me having multiple families to pick from, I pick a certain family and then in the end they leave in a few months. Apparently I was just a "good enough" provider until that spot opened up in the center! Drives me absolutely crazy but nothing you can do. It is all about honesty and being an honourable person. I always tell my families I am looking for long term parents but there are still ones that take advantage.

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Originally Posted by bright sparks

It's a tough spot to be in, I don't begrudge her tough decision. Last year I wasn't down on my numbers for a month or two, it was a full 12 months and my income was 1200 a month, down from just over 4000. Not even close to minimum wage before expenses. Prior to this I had on average 8 to 12 enquiries a month and then all of a sudden my town has now become saturated with stay at home mums charging $10-$15 less a day which people are more than willing to go with, so this wasn't something I could foresee happening after having 6/7 years never experiencing this, and having just bought a new place 2 months prior to the loss, I didn't have a years income sat in the bank. That is a huge difference, and while we managed it was at huge expense. My husband took a new job position and worked 60-70 a week which has dramatically effected his relationship with his children as a result of his absence. I wasn't presented with the same situation as the OP as there were just hardly any enquiries coming in for even unsociable hours let alone a normal part or full timer, but I would not put the needs of another family before my own if it cost me to do so. If that makes it seem to others like I have a poor character then so be it because they are not going to pay my bills or put food on my table. I have spent the majority of my time in this field prioritizing the needs of my daycare parents before mine and now I am paying the price. I have learnt my lesson through experience.

Referring back to what you said in an earlier post 5LM about a provider taking mat leave and a parent leaving early because the daycare is shutting...well it is just the same thing in my eyes. Why can't they stay till the date I am closing? Because they worry they won't get alternative care if they don't snatch that spot up when it presents itself which is fair enough although results in hardship for the provider. Well I think this is similar in that enquiries are not always consistent and there is the worry that you will turn those parents down now and then have a dry spell when your spots open. Yes it leaves your current parent in a tight spot now, but the parent leaving you early prior to mat leave, leaves you in a tight spot too. The same thing really.

That being said, I had two kids leave for school last September and I never bumped them because of other enquiries, even though they were scarce I still had September enquiries. I am just saying not to be so quick to judge (not aimed at anyone specific), and/or be so quick to say you would act one way or another until you are presented with this situation and have to face a difficult choice. I don't make any decision lightly which is evident in the simple fact that I have put off closing my daycare for a few years now to go to school for the benefit of my daycare families. One more year and I have fulfilled my commitment period and I will have no issue leaving the other families hanging. It's time I looked out for number one a little bit more! Somebody has to ;)

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Thanks, Bright Sparks. If I wasn't in this position, I might be quick to judge too, but since I am in this situation, it has been hard to figure out. I see what everyone else is saying, but the fact is that I have had so many parents over the years, just up and leave or give me almost no notice because either they found other care or Grandma will take the kids, etc. They don't think twice about screwing me over when it benefits them.
Maybe this makes me cynical when I comes to these things, and don't get me wrong, I know that 2 wrongs don't make a right. But I need to think about the fact that during the last 6 months or so, I have had a total of maybe 2 or 3 inquiries, then all of a sudden I get a few at a time and I don't know if I will have any more inquiries before these kids leave. Then I will have lost a great amount of my income at once, without anyone to fill the spots. Also, I have a fulltime child starting school in the fall as well, so that means lost income there as well.

I have spoken to the new mom and explained my situation and she has said she understands and is willing to work with me. Even if it means finding alternate care until the summer. I just hope it doesn't backfire on me. Lord knows, that has happened many times and I would always swear that I will never think about not putting my family's needs first.

You could also advertise now with the opening dates as July and September( if those are the correct months) and see if you can find children to fill for then. If June rolls around and you have had no interest, than you could consider the option of terming and accepting the new mom.

Have you spoke to the current parents and asked if they will for sure be staying until July and September or asked if they have alternate care if you need to fill the spots before then? If new mom can find alternate care until at least the first spot opens, that would be my preferred plan.

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Originally Posted by 5 Little Monkeys

You could also advertise now with the opening dates as July and September( if those are the correct months) and see if you can find children to fill for then. If June rolls around and you have had no interest, than you could consider the option of terming and accepting the new mom.

Have you spoke to the current parents and asked if they will for sure be staying until July and September or asked if they have alternate care if you need to fill the spots before then? If new mom can find alternate care until at least the first spot opens, that would be my preferred plan.

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The current parents are definitely leaving as planned. And yes, I am definitely planning on stepping up the search near the end of school. As I said, I just hope that telling the new mom she has to find alternate care won't backfire on me, in the long run.

I hope it doesn't either!

It sorta makes me think of this saying....if your going to cheat with me, you will probably cheat on me. Yes an odd comparison but as a parent I would wonder if you term for me will you term me when needed? Does that make sense? Lol

I am sorry mattsmom - I still don't agree with you. It is like a get them before they get me attitude. For me personally I would just keep the family you have now and advertise for the spots with the start date of when mom said they are done. How do you know that the new family will stick around? there are no guarantee's in life and we cannot predict the future. I think you are jumping the gun IMO. How do you know you won't have a pile of inquiries about your spots if you advertise for those specific days?

For me I would stick with what is a guarantee - the family you currently have. Advertise spots now for when they are leaving and let what will happen happen.

If it were me i would probably keep the children I already have. There are always people looking for spots, so I'm sure that you can find someone within your time frame. But its up to you and what makes you comfortable. Good Luck!

Making a business decision is just that. A chance to fill spaces has come about and I would certainly consider it if clients in your area are hard to find. What I would do is say you won't take them till July when first family is leaving and let second family know now that you will not be keeping them for the summer. Gives them plenty of time to find a summer camp, or to hire a high school student for the summer. It is good for the child going into school to have summer camp and get used to larger groups and group rules anyways. Also what if they are planning to move to the school based care or a new caregiver and are told in beginning of Aug the space is now open. You know full well they will just leave and go rather than lose the space and sometimes we need to make changes so we aren't the ones left high and dry.

To let them go in June I too see as rude and not proper practice but to say you are making changes starting July and give them a month to make the changes when you know there are options out there is not wrong it is practical.

I think I'm along the opinion of the others ! I would stick to the dcf you have and let her know when a spot comes available . I believe it is more professional . I'm not passing judgement on anyone else or their choices , it is just my opinion and how I run my business . I have had my share of being taken advantage of and being "awesome " and "a life saver" one week and losing the same family the next week over a sick day . It doesn't matter to me how many times peoples behaviour effects me , it's how my behaviour effects people that I am working on !