After reading the responses in my vacation pay thread, I have come to realize many of you do not charge for your vacation days.
Why or why not?
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After reading the responses in my vacation pay thread, I have come to realize many of you do not charge for your vacation days.
Why or why not?
I posted in your other thread already but I will put it here. I don't know any daycare's in my area that charge for their vacation days. If I don't work I don't get paid. I don't charge for my sick days or my holidays. I do however charge for 10 stat/civic days.
I don't feel right about charging for days that I make myself unavailable. If I'm open and they choose not to send their child- that's another story. I don't believe that daycares in my area tend to charge either.
Its the norm for my area, and as most of my clients have jobs where their vacation is covered. I feel its only fair. So its what I do. I also recently changed my contract to have personal, sick or bereavement time of 5 days..
No, I don't charge for my 3 weeks of vacation per year. However, I charge full fees for the other 49 weeks of the year no matter what happens, so if the families take any other vacation they pay. If they have any sick days, the closed stat days listed in my contract, snow days, whatever, they always know they pay full fees and I never have to answer a question about how much people owe at any time.
It's not the norm in my area. However, I rarely take time off, but most of my families all take the same time off. So I had 4 days off during spring break, and I had most of christmas break off. So far I'm happy with it. And none of the parents have to feel like they're paying for my vacation days, because I'm technically open.
I'm with Daisy123, if they choose to keep their child home or have a relative take them for the day or whatever, but I am open and supposed to have the child, then I expect to be paid. I do give each family 2 weeks' vacation a year that they don't pay me, and I take 2 weeks' vacation that they don't pay me for. I don't know of anyone here that charges for vacation time. If I close for any reason, they don't pay. Luckily I haven't had to close for any sick days yet, but I did have to when my son was in the hospital and when my daughter had a specialist appointment in another city. I figure, if they have to pay someone else to take the kids because I can't have them, then they shouldn't have to pay me, but if they choose to pull them for the day but I still have a spot open and waiting for them, then they should be paying for it.
I am beginning to realize how fortunate I am - I have been doing this for 7 years - In my child care agreement I account for, 2 weeks vacation (usually in the summer but not always), the usual stats, the days between Christmas & New Years. I also have 6 sick/personal days and if necessary - 5 bereavement days. Lucky, I know. I also require payment at the beginning of each month in form of post-dated cheques so there is no haggling over fees. Again, I am feeling very, very fortunate with the choices I have been able to make regarding my business. I don't know I could do it otherwise.
I do charge full fees for my vacation (4weeks total). None of my families questioned this at all. I do not charge for sick days...I chose to do this because I feel that little bit less guilty when I have to close last minute and leave families scrambling. I'm sure in the future this will change as I'll feel less guilty about it the more their kids make me sick :-)
I did have a family question why I don't want to be paid for sick days as they thought it was odd and that I should be.
This same family insisted on paying me when I closed last minute to travel to an out of town funeral for 3 days. Since it was last minute and was not holidays I decided to just use unpaid "sick" days. This family felt that it was not appropriate not to pay me, that I wasn't in control of the situation.
I loved the fact they respect me and my daycare enough to insist on paying me more than I loved being paid for the 3 days :-)
Some families just really "get it" and I try hard to only enrol those families!
This is how I view it....I am a small business owner that provides a service out of my home. If I am not open and am unable to provide the service, why should families pay me? I would not pay my plumber, hair dresser, nail artist etc for times that I am not able to use them.
I am in the same area as mickyc and superfun and like they said, it's not the norm for our area anyways so even if I did charge, I likely would have a hard time finding clients.
When I started, I decided to charge for 11 stat/civic holidays and be closed but at a $10 less per day fee. I also charge $10 less per day if the parent takes holidays. At the time, I was the only one I knew that did this. It was my incentive for parents to choose me but also an incentive for them to keep their child home when they could which then in turn makes my day easier :) It has worked beautifully! I very very rarely have children here on parents days off or parents holidays and I am still paid but not feeding or caring for their child so in the end, it balances itself. The parents like that they are getting a deal on these days and I like that I'm down in numbers and can sometimes go out on field trips in the car.
I am very lucky that we are in a good financial spot to be able to offer the care I do at the price I charge. If we were in debt and I needed all the extra money I could get, I would likely not offer the discount for the families vacation but I would still not charge for my vacation as it just doesn't feel right to me. Each to their own though!
*Just as a side note....Does anyone know any other small business owners that still get paid if they are not working? (other than daycare providers I mean) Genuinely curious...not starting a big debate lol
I would love to charge for my vacation time (although I close for 7 weeks a year), and sick days and days for appointments and Stats, etc.... It's not done in my area, so it would effect my ability to get clients.
For those of you who do charge, you need to be careful with your wording in your contracts. I will include the link, but here is an excerpt from The Childcare Providers Resource Network out of the Ottawa area.
How many holidays can I take?
Caregivers are self-employed and therefore are not entitled to "paid sick time", or "paid vacation". To accommodate for this some caregivers charge more per day and bank the extra money for when they are sick or on holidays. Others use statements similar to the one below:
"Weekly fee for care is _____, totaling an annual amount of ______. Payment is expected for the agreed upon hours/days whether the child is in attendance or not. Payment will not vary due to statutory holidays, child’s illness or appointments or parent vacations. Fee will be negotiated if caregiver takes excess of ____days off annually."
Another term for this is being "paid by enrolment". The language is very important in case of an audit by Revenue Canada. If you are audited and your contract mentions "paid vacation" and "paid sick time", Revenue Canada can request the parents pay CPP and UI Benefits. Remember also, Revenue Canada can go back 6 years.
http://www.ccprn.com/en/information-...or-caregivers/
I get paid for all 52 weeks per year ..... I am closed for three weeks holidays, all stat days (I think its 11) , 5 personal days, and I have 1 bereavement day also however thankfully I have never used that.
I used to. 10 paid days per year plus 5 sick days.
But then we moved and it is not the norm in my area at all. I know of one provider who does.
Thanks for the above info, that is good to know.
I do charge higher rates throughout the year in the hopes of being able to tuck some away.
I often think that I should get paid sick days as I usually get sick from the dcks.... might encourage parents to keep their sick kids home.
Nice. I wish my area would support this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crayola kiddies
Same here. Except I am only closed for 2 weeks a year. I have no idea what is and isn't the norm in my area as I do what works for me, not necessarily what everyone else is doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crayola kiddies
I get that parents want most daycares to be similar but I try to stand out and not be like everyone else so I set my rules and policies according to what works for my family.
Interested clients can choose to sign on if my policies work or look elsewhere.
There is a right fit for everyone.
I do occasionally have families ask me to discount days or weeks in which I am closed or they were absent but I usually just refer them back to my handbook and let them know rates are based on enrollment not attendance and that payment is non-negotiable.
Totally agree:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Daisy123
I think you are lucky but this approach could backfire. It isn't as simple as saying if a family isn't happy with that policy they can go elsewhere if there are more providers than demand and lots of competition. Some providers rely on this income and it's not always a case of additional income so they don't have the luxury of doing this. It may be tough to fill those spots to begin with and when the parents have the pick of the crop they are obviously going to go with another caregiver who doesn't charge them for days they are not available. In an area where it is not the norm to charge for vacation days to do so potentially sets the provider up for putting themselves in a tough spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat3168
It's like pricing yourself out of the market when you charge more than the areas average going rate. Unless you are offering something above and beyond and can justify the extra then you have eliminated a percentage of your possible clientele to begin with. The same with paid vacation, if you are closed for business how can you possibly justify charging someone for a service that is neither available to them or being provided by the person they are paying. If they are paying for childcare services, then shouldn't they be able to use the services instead of having to pay double to get service elsewhere? They either have to pay someone else to care for their child costing them additional money, or take time off so money they receive from their vacation pay as an EMPLOYEE, they are just giving straight to the provider and they are left out of pocket. Yet when the parent takes time off to go on vacation you want them to still pay you...seems like a double standard to me.
Yes I would love to be paid for vacation days but that is a labour law set out by the government that employers must pay their employees the minimum legal amount per year, it is not an employer "doing what's best for them" it is them following employment laws. As self employed people we can do what we want when setting up our business policies, but like someone else said in this thread, and others on the many other threads regarding this, what other self employed business owners get paid vacation time off? My daycare is paid by enrollment but only for days that daycare is open for business or Stat/Civic Holidays or named paid days off as stated in the contract.
Obviously if you can get away with charging vacation days then good for you regardless of whether it is the norm or not, but in my opinion those providers are lucky because I don't feel like we are somehow entitled to it.
bright sparks .....all of my parents take holidays at the same time as me ....they ask me in feb what im taking and they book those days so they are not paying double. most of my families are government and have way more then 3 weeks a year any way.....I have never even been questioned ...it is totally the norm in my area...I guess I should be very grateful
That is great don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not saying people shouldn't take the time off paid if that works for them. I suppose announcing to parents in Feb makes a big difference too. I don't do that. I have never and will never tie myself to set weeks and days so far in advance unless I have made travel arrangements well in advance. It is one thing to book time off that far ahead if you are going camping or staying home and have the ability to go whenever you please but travelling means I sometimes have to wait for the deals or simply don't know what my plans are for the summer in the winter as it depends greatly on my kids competitions, games and recitals. Summer camps have only just been announced in the beginning of April to know when my daughter will be away and when my son will be enrolled in summer break activities too. As I'm typing this I am shaking my head at myself though because I am notoriously an obsessive planner lol I know I will be off next summer for 2 weeks because we have a trip to the UK arranged for a wedding but otherwise I don't know when I will be off. If I feel a burn out coming on then I want the ability to take time off without having the parents begrudge me the time because I made a commitment/ promise to certain dates already. I don't have sick days/bereavement days/ personal days etc I simply call everything a vacation day and what I do on that day is really irrelevant as it is unpaid if I am off for any reason. Last year I took March Break off to be at home with my kids, two weeks in August to go away, 2 weeks in October for surgery and bed rest and then 2 weeks over Xmas and New Year. This year I have not had any time of bar a few days so far...maybe 3 I think and really its just because of finances. I hope to take some time in the summer but its again a money thing as I am down on my numbers and have a kid leaving in August. I always take a good 15 to 20 days off over Xmas and New Year. Where some people stipulate x amount of weeks paid vacation a year I take all my time off unpaid but do not limit myself so I suppose that could be as equally off putting for some parents with little vacation time of their own and no back up. Each to their own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crayola kiddies
I have in my policy book that I have to give a minimum of 4 weeks notice so no spur of the moment vacays for me and my families mostly work in offices so they have to book their vacation time by feb in order to get the weeks they want .... I had one family asking me over Xmas holidays when I was taking my summer holidays .... Yikes !!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momof4
This is what I do.
I feel lucky that it works for me too. I've read many threads from providers who struggle to make ends meet and work far more hours than they wish to simply because they can't afford to take the time off.Quote:
Originally Posted by bright sparks
For ME it IS as simple as saying if it doesn't work for a family then they can go elsewhere.
Charging for vacation has worked for me for 21 years so I will continue to do what works for me.
Which is why I said there is a right fit for everyone.
I justify it by making sure that parents understand that this IS a high stress job and when I take a paid vacation it eliminates the need for me to have to work when I may be sick, stressed out or not physically or emotionally able to... SO in an essence my parents are paying for the comfort of knowing I am not working when physically or mentally exhausted. They are paying for that peace of mind. Knowing their provider is emotionally well. (Again, this goes along with parents having the ability to sign on with me knowing my policies in advance or find a provider that better meets their needs)Quote:
Originally Posted by bright sparks
I'm in the states and here we are allowed to set up our policies and rules as far as payment and which days we charge or don't charge in any way we wish to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by bright sparks
I don't feel I am entitled to anything... I simply do what works for me.
I've changed certain policies over the years to better meet the demands of clients but still do what is best for MY family first and foremost and won't be made to feel as though I am doing something wrong for doing so.
I simply stated how I personally do things.
Charging for vacation days works for me and for the parents I have in care. Bottom line is as long as I am able to make things work and still maintain a client base then I'm good.
In no way was I trying to argue whether providers should or shouldn't do something. I was replying to the original question of "Do you charge for your vacation days" and the answer is yes. I do charge for them.
I charge for them because it works for me (and my clients) and that choice was not made on whether or not it is or isn't the norm for others in my area. :)