Provider backing out on agreement and changing her hours

I am bit annoyed by the current situation with my daycare provider deciding to switch her hours. I found her on this website 6months ago and her posted hours of service were 7:30-5:30 pm which is pretty standard I think. One concern I had about this provider when we met her was that this was her first time running a daycare. She has 2 little kids of her own so she wanted to stay home. She has her ECE and has worked as a teacher but IMO running a daycare is something different. Anyways, turned out that my husband knew her from before through some friends, her Ad description sounded very appealing and the place was nice so we went with her. We explained very clearly that we have long commutes so our pick up times would be 5:30-6pm. She agreed. We started in January and I have to say I was pretty good at picking my son up, I was usually there no later than 5:15 and sometimes even earlier if I could. A month ago or so she asked me if I could manage my work hours to pick up my son by 4:45 pm during the summer as she wanted to take her older son to soccer. Of course I could not accommodate. I can get off earlier sometimes but it is not something that I can do on a regular basis. She was obviously upset but really I could not do it. At that time I was already pregnant with my second one, early stages but showing a big belly. My pregnancy was quite obvious but I did not officially told her because really I don't have to, I was still in my first 15 weeks and nothing was changing for her. Well, I guess she saw her big chance of getting out of the agreement assuming that a) I would pull out my son from daycare when baby 2 arrived or b) my hours would change or c) maybe will switch to part-time, which none of these options were in my plans. When she finally asked about what my plans were and I said that nothing would be changing in September when baby is due, she was visibly surprised and noticeably disappointed, which caught me off-guard as I thought this would be the ideal situation for any other provider. Then truth came out as she said she was sure that I would pull him out and if not she would have to think about it because she had been advertising already a spot (not my kid's but another one) and has received a lot of responses and these people are teachers, so it means shorter hours for her, and everyday she has to stay at least half an hour extra because of my son, and her boy cannot go to baseball this summer, and bla bla bla. Well, it was pretty obvious that she was unhappy so I just simply replied to her to let me know and I would find another place for my kid. This was a Friday so on the Monday she apologized for the way she approached the conversation (completely lack of tact for sure) and said she hoped we could work something out. We did not, she wants the shorter hours and I cannot do it for several reasons that I explained to her. So basically she is backing out on her agreement, and we are now looking for another provider. Nothing we can do except move on but I wanted to share my experience, for those parents looking at home day cares. Really insist and outline the kind of hours you will have and if there is a likelihood of changing, particularly with inexperienced providers. They figure that because they like children,have an ECE and want to stay home, opening a daycare is a great idea but underestimate the amount of work and responsibility it is. I realize that not everybody is like that thankfully.

I understand that this situation is frustrating to you considering you now have to look for a new provider and that's not easy. It doesn't sound like your provider was very professional about how she approached this situation, however I don't understand why you didn't just announce your pregnancy and share your plans for your mat leave in the first place. Sounds to me like this is just miscommunication or bad communication and both parties are at fault. If your provider wants new hours she is completely within her rights to give you the opportunity to adjust your hours accordingly or otherwise terminate her agreement. I know it sucks for you in the end, but she is doing what is best for her and her family.

Yes I agree. Why not just be open and honest with her and tell her your plans when you go on mat leave. We can't read minds. Parents expect us to be open and honest with our plans but don't want to give that courtesy back it seems. I agree your provider didn't act in the most professional manner but why not give her a heads up with your plans so she isn't left hanging? This is her livelihood and if she thinks she will have to fill a spot of course she will start advertising, just be open and up front with your intensions.

Also our families come first before our jobs (most people anyways and we are no different). If she decides that her current work hours don't work for her family she has every right to change them.

While I appreciate your frustration, I can't really blame her for her feelings or thoughts regarding your pregnancy, that said I do not agree with the way she did things or her assumption.

What I would do is simply say that my child had soccer, and we needed to leave by such and such a time, then offering for you to meet us at the soccer field; or offering an increased rate (with plenty of notice) to compensate for someone coming to take care of my little ones until close.

I agree with mickyc why not tell her that you were not planning on leaving her care? (Maybe she would have come up with a plan B had she known this)

I too, put my family first in this business, and while it totally sucks looking for someone new, she may just be doing what's best for her with no prejudice at all.

I agree with the others. I TOTALLY understand that it would be frustrating for you because not very often can we (everyone, not just dcp's) just up and change our hours. However, this is her business and she has every right to make changes to it that will benefit her and her family. It is no different than any other business deciding to change their hours to better suit them and their business.

I agree with you that it doesn't sound like she handled the initial conversation very well but she has apologized and there is nothing more that can be done about that. I can understand your dcp thinking you would be leaving (as most parents do tend to leave for mat leave) but you and her should have discussed this. Either way, it sounds like she would have been switching her hours so you would have been looking for another dc anyways.

Again, I completely understand your frustrations but please remember that this is her business and just like you will do anything that benefits your family, so will she. I don't think this has anything to do with her being a new hdcp and inexperienced though. I do think that she shouldn't have taken you on in the first place though because your pick up times were already passed her closing time. That was a poor decision on her part and also yours. Live and learn though, mistakes will be made but as business owners, we have every right to change our hours as needed. I have always given plenty of notice when I have needed to do this and I suspect most others would as well. Good luck on your search for another dcp :) Everything happens for a reason and there will be a dc out there that better suits your needs!

I agree ....if the OP was visibly pregnant then she should have said "I am expecting in xxxx but my intention is to leave johnny in care full time for the duration of my maternity leave" then the provider is not left wondering what is going to happen, especially if getting a replacement is going to be hard. sometimes the phone never stops ringing and sometimes it takes forever to get a call....it seems to go in waves and perhaps the provider was being proactive and if she already had a spot coming available then of course she would be advertising. I disagree with 5 LM and I do believe this was because she is new quite often when a provider just starts up the first year is a learning curve....perhaps she never thought of the implications of closing at 530 and has now realized that it really impedes on her family time...how ever I do agree with 5LM and she shouldn't have taken you in the first place because your pick up time exceeded her operating hours again part of the learning curve ..I know when I started I was open from 645 to 530 ....never really thought of how long a day this would be till I was running after several toddlers all day.....so when a family left that was my latest pick up I would move my closing time to the next latest pick up and I kept doing so till I got to my desired closing time of 430....any new families that I accepted into my daycare had to fall within the new hours .....so I can understand the provider asking if you can adjust your pick up time ....and for some it is doable ...I have several families where one parent drops off and the other parent picks up and that way both parents can still get their hours in and the children aren't in care so long. once you are on mat leave why wouldn't you be able to pick up earlier? I truly understand your frustration because now you will have to source out and transition your son into new care again however I get her point of view too and if she is new to the daycare world im guessing she never realized how much daycare impacts family life......

Yeah, we kinda like to know about the pregnancies as early as possible so we can figure out a plan of action. If the space is coming up for grabs, it's nice to know several months in advance, so we can advertise and take our time filling it.

However, changing the hours....not cool! This is a business! If one wishes to be treated and viewed as a professional, then one probably should behave as such. I had my kids in soccer and piano and tutors and.....you get the idea. Single parent running a daycare 6am-6pm and I managed to do it because, in my own situation, there was no choice in the matter. We had to eat. If that league or sport didn't offer reasonable hours, then look into something else. There would be the odd occasion that I had parents pick up early (graduations and prom being the only ones I recall). I took those kids to doctors appointments, track and field meets, the accountant, teacher meetings (with parent blessings of course) for years because, being in business, it's just what I had to do. I've never changed my hours and never, ever backed out on an agreement with a client. It's a business and as with any business, it often has to take a front seat. Although, after 14 years in the biz, I'm now toying with the idea of shaving my hours back a little (6:30-5:30)....once my last early drop family's contract is up in a couple years. Until just a couple weeks ago when my last late pick up left my care, I've always worked right till 6pm. I've been off by 5:15 since....it's GLORIOUS!!!!!

I understand your point crayola kiddies. The reason I said I didn't think it was due to an inexperienced provider is because I think changing hours is something that many providers do regardless of how long they have been open. This is something that any business encounters IMO not just hdc's. Hours open will change due to the hdcp's family needs as well as the dcparents need. When we have no parents needing late pickup's, it would naturally make sense to shorten our day for example.

I think the provider likely thought this family was leaving and was going to take the opportunity to shorten her workday while she could. When it turned out that the family wasn't leaving, she decided to shorten her day anyways. The grass looked greener with the teachers and who wouldn't take the chance to be done earlier if they could. It may not have been professional on her part by the way she handled the situation but we're not perfect and mistakes happen.

Sometimes when a new caregiver starts her business she takes clients just to get going and finds out she is in over her head and must make changes. Personally, I would not interview anyone who needed a pickup time after about 4:45 but that's because my entire group is gone usually by that time. There is a learning curve to this job and this new caregiver is just at the beginning of it. When she finds out things won't work for her she is going to have to make changes.

Sorry that this happened to you, but not every family is a match for every caregiver and that's why families must due their best to find their best fit. We must find our best fit for our daycares.

Hello Cassita

I hope that the stress from your unfortunate situation will be eased especially with the pregnancy.
It is of utmost importance in finding the right connection between a family and caregiver that will surpass the basics of scheduling. There is no reason why accommodations could not have been made to help with your agreed upon operating hours. I myself am a relatively new IPC
working with two families providing semi-private care, personally, my feeling is that honoring the contract is crucial in the success of her business. Maybe your provider could have asked her husband to come home early on soccer nights to help with the scheduling.

Just as parent's hours sometimes change at work with promotions, changing jobs, etc. providers sometimes need to make changes for their family needs too so it works both ways. When either party in the contract needs to make a change they need to give at least the minimum notice as specified and it then makes the contract void. Meaning that if the new hours don't work then the parent will need to move to a caregiver with more suitable hours. A contract is there for protection but is subject to change as circumstances change. Fees can be changed as food/hydro prices go up, hours can be changed as provider's children age and begin activities. Sometimes even the days of childcare change as a parent decides to go part time over full time.

There is no such thing as standard hours for home care and you will find several caregivers all on the same street with different hours. Care ending at 5:00 is the most common in most areas. When you have all of your other families picking up earlier and staying open for just one it doesn't make sense if it means you have to jeopardize your own family's activities and that is why the changes were made.

As far as the pregnancy goes I think the provider just assumed you would either keep the child home or have the ability to work within the shorter hours come Sept - if you are home on mat leave why are you not able to go pick up your older child by her new closing time and then negotiate with your work when you are ready to go back to find a job with hours that work for daycare. It doesn't always have to be the provider that adapts.

My experience is this , it wasn't working out ! Your dcp , as mentioned above wanted to change her hours . It is her business to do so . I agree with everyone else ! Did she handle it professionally ? Maybe not , but having my own experience with changing dcf hours , it's not the nicest of conversations to have ! Especially as you mentioned not feeling like you had to disclose your pregnancy news indicates there was some issues . So it prob went exactly like your provider thought it would !

Sorry to hear of your problems with your child's daycare. I am currently looking for children for my home daycare but I include written stuff about my hours, days, holidays... and with a legal binding contract all parties signs. I require a parent to give one month notice for termination and the same applies to myself as well. I had one family up and quit over issues with another parent during the sars virus spreading and without the proper one month notice and the parent who had every right to decide what was best for their child pulled the child out, but they ended up braking the contract I had with them. I ended up taking them to court and the judge sided for me because of the contracts and papers that were signed by the parents and myself. So my advice to you when searching for a center get things in writing, they will hold up in a court.

As a provider of over 15 years when you go into this type of business of home daycare,you are committing yourself to the parents and children in your care whether or not you have your own children.If you wanted different hours it should have been clearly stated from the beginning! I think it was very unfair of that provider to do this! It makes parents question the reliablity of home daycare providers out there . If you are a parent of course you children should come first, and that being said, home daycare should not be your choice of work then, unless, you can totally balance both worlds! Just my opinion as a daycare provider and someone who has worked with children and parents for over 38 years!

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Originally Posted by jplmrk045@gmail.com

As a provider of over 15 years when you go into this type of business of home daycare,you are committing yourself to the parents and children in your care whether or not you have your own children.If you wanted different hours it should have been clearly stated from the beginning! I think it was very unfair of that provider to do this! It makes parents question the reliablity of home daycare providers out there . If you are a parent of course you children should come first, and that being said, home daycare should not be your choice of work then, unless, you can totally balance both worlds! Just my opinion as a daycare provider and someone who has worked with children and parents for over 38 years!

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Well thanks for your opinion, that's great but I think you will find that the majority of home daycare providers would disagree with you. A home daycare is not the same as centre care. We are individuals running a "home" daycare so it is also a "home" with things that go on in a "home" like providers own children and everything that goes along with that. It is up to parents to research the best kind of care to meet their needs and if they do not have any flexibility then they need to go with a centre where they are run very rigidly as a whole. It was not unfair of the provider at all, that's ridiculous. Things changed and she notified the parent that these were the changes and if they didn't work for her then she would no longer be able to offer care. That is the true nature of a home daycare. Parents are not our bosses, we run our business the way it works best for us and if that doesn't meet the parents needs then so be it. We have contracts and providers with experience and know how would state that their contract can be amended at any time with a 30 day notice period to changes of policies which if the changes were not agreed upon would serve as notice period. We live in the real world where things happen and things change. We aren't employees punching in and punching out, we are running a business while caring for our family. I'm sure as hell not going to put the needs of my own children after my daycare families. It's a give and take relationship. I will be flexible and accommodate changes a parent needs to make where I can, and they should do that for their providers if possible but if things aren't able to be accommodated, people shouldn't take it so personal, such is life. I have been a daycare provider for nearly 9 years, I have also had my children in home daycare and centre care prior to this so I have experience on both sides. It's not my years that make me good at my job, it's being in touch with the reality of this job and my quality of experience that makes me a good provider. I know providers who have been doing this job for 30 years and they are a total waste of time, so the years mean nothing.

I think I understand what jplr...is saying. Yes this is our business and of course we are going to do what is best for us, the business and our family but it can't ALWAYS come at the expense of our business or it won't be a successful one. This is a business where multiple families depend on us daily to be consistent and reliable. If we are not those things we will have issues keeping clients.

Finding the balance of running a reliable and trustworthy hdc and keeping our families needs 1st priority is key but can be tricky. If one were to need to be flexible and always accommodating their family than owning a business may not be the best choice. It's no different than owning any other business. I grew up with a family run business and unfortunately there were times that both my parents couldn't be somewhere for us kids but someone had to take care of the business as that was our income. Taking time off whenever is not a luxury most self employed people have that work for/with clients.

However, I don't think this was the issue with the OP.

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Originally Posted by 5 Little Monkeys

I think I understand what jplr...is saying. Yes this is our business and of course we are going to do what is best for us, the business and our family but it can't ALWAYS come at the expense of our business or it won't be a successful one. This is a business where multiple families depend on us daily to be consistent and reliable. If we are not those things we will have issues keeping clients.

Finding the balance of running a reliable and trustworthy hdc and keeping our families needs 1st priority is key but can be tricky. If one were to need to be flexible and always accommodating their family than owning a business may not be the best choice. It's no different than owning any other business. I grew up with a family run business and unfortunately there were times that both my parents couldn't be somewhere for us kids but someone had to take care of the business as that was our income. Taking time off whenever is not a luxury most self employed people have that work for/with clients.

However, I don't think this was the issue with the OP.

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I agree with you for the most part but in reality when you run a home daycare while having your own children things are very different. I understand taking constant time off and making changes frequently to the original parent provider contract is a recipe for an unsuccessful business and bad reputation but we aren't talking about that. We are talking about a change in circumstances which meant the provider changed her operating hours. This isn't a reflection of poor business practice but a reality of life. It would be the same for an employed person if suddenly their life circumstances required an earlier finishing time. They could ask for a change in working hours or seek employment elsewhere but it wouldn't mean they were a bad employee or person for that matter. My response was directed at the post saying that provider acted unfairly which I think is silly. Just because something didn't work in the parents favour and was a major inconvenience doesn't make it unfair it makes it unfortunate but it isn't personal to them it is just simply that things change and peoples needs change both that of the parent and the provider. It could happen on both angles.

Here is an example of things I am dealing with now. My kids have summer camps which I have never enrolled them in before to save the inconvenience of the daycare parents who rely on me. This year I decided that the needs of my children are important enough that I needed to ask these parents to be flexible where possible. I have no issue with parents switching days, picking up late on occasion because their life throws a curve ball at them so I need parents to collect early so I can get to my kids on time or I have given them the alternative option that their children will come with me to pick up and I will drop them home myself on my way back. It's a give and take relationship. If they said flat out no to both of them and got all offended with me that is not my fault, not my problem and not a reflection on how I conduct my business. It is simply that I am trying to fulfill the needs of my daycare families and my own family without neglecting either. It requires some give and take on both ends.

I can see that you jplmrk045 have taken into consideration the parents views on home daycare reliability, stressing the importance of commitment to children and families. This is all good, as for the amount of years spent as an IPC I would imagine you held the same regard since day one...respect for the working parent who have to juggle their lives around childcare and busy working days. I feel from viewing many opinions from other IPC's that their family comes before business, child providers are lucky to have the job security that their children have a parent who can be there for them when ever needed. Most parents who are in need of childcare are at the mercy of the provider with the high demand for childcare and less space available to accommodate the numbers of children. Unfortunately, most parents do not have enough selection to find the ideal care provider, that being said, often settling into the daycare in desperation before having to return to work. Without a strong human to human mother to mother form of mutual respect these unfortunate situations will continue to happen. I strongly believe that beautiful relationships can develop out of sharing in the lives of each child so that the bond can continue to flourish over the years.

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Originally Posted by LITE-BRITE

I can see that you jplmrk045 have taken into consideration the parents views on home daycare reliability, stressing the importance of commitment to children and families. This is all good, as for the amount of years spent as an IPC I would imagine you held the same regard since day one...respect for the working parent who have to juggle their lives around childcare and busy working days. I feel from viewing many opinions from other IPC's that their family comes before business, child providers are lucky to have the job security that their children have a parent who can be there for them when ever needed. Most parents who are in need of childcare are at the mercy of the provider with the high demand for childcare and less space available to accommodate the numbers of children. Unfortunately, most parents do not have enough selection to find the ideal care provider, that being said, often settling into the daycare in desperation before having to return to work. Without a strong human to human mother to mother form of mutual respect these unfortunate situations will continue to happen. I strongly believe that beautiful relationships can develop out of sharing in the lives of each child so that the bond can continue to flourish over the years.

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Before I respond would you just mind clarifying what an IPC is? Thank you

Sure, we are all Independent Professional Caregivers :-)

Cassita, I normally like to read and not respond, but I felt you needed an opinion from another parent, as most the responses you have received have been from providers. Whom, by the way, have been a wonderful resource on this site with their wealth of info.

I actually agree with our daycare ladies (or gents) that your provider can change her hours of business. Her business, her rules. HOWEVER, as a client though, you have the right to take your business elsewhere. Advance notice should have been provided from your provider at least 30 days in advance so that you had the ability to find new care if the new hours did not work for you (as they don't). To be fair, with or without a long commute...4:45 leaves very little flexibility. Her regret may be that she will lack for clients given her restrictive schedule.

With respect to your pregnancy, your right to tell or not to tell. No one's business but your own. This is true in ANY industry. The lines seem to be a bit blurred here. Daycare providers need us to treat them as professionals but the nature of their work is personal. My opinion is that the contract rules the relationship. You are not under obligation to disclose your plans until notice is required. In this case...no notice needed...your child was going to remain in care. As a courtesy though, I would have mentioned it at some point as I would think the provider would be wondering...

I'm sorry but it does annoy me when parents, who knew what a carer's hours are before even going for an interview, think that's negotiable! No other business would stay open beyond their business hours and no one would expect them to.
Yes - I get that she agreed to do it but I'm going to go out on a limb here and make some guesses about your arrangement.

1. You expected her to stay open for you beyond her business hours for potentially 4 years until your child went to school.
2. You likely would also have expected her to offer these extended hours to your new baby
3. You likely aren't payin a red cent extra for the additional time.

Adults work to provide for their family. You work to provide for yours and we work to provide for ours. I've had some brilliant families over the years who have been long term clients and their children have been very special to me but not one of them was more special than my own kids. I don't work for free (I bet you don't either). I don't expect to lose my family time without being financially compensated - PAID - for it.

In terms of you not telling her about your pregnancy "because you didn't have to" is beyond selfish. You said you were showing but offered your carer no reassurances about your plans even though you had already decided firmly. You left her wondering what her position was. Of course she advertised the place! Most parents can't afford to remain in full time care during maternity leave and so it was a reasonable presumption of hers to expect either reduced care or for your child to be pulled for day care completely. Why wouldn't you have shown some basic human decency and reassured your carer that her income was safe?

I don't think all new day care providers under-estimated the work. What they do under-estimate is how much certain parents take advantage - expecting extended business hours, likely not paying for the extended hours and then not even the curtsey of being kept in the loop.