Advice regarding terminating care...

I have only had my daycare open since May. I currently have 4 children, plus my own 15 month old daughter.

I recently have taken on an almost 3 year old girl, about 4-5 weeks ago. The first week, was fine. Now it is an absolute nightmare. Every single thing, takes me at least 4-5 times of asking. She takes other children's toys away from them, she takes their drinks and hides under tables to drink them (they are usually kept out of reach, but when they drink them, she finds a way to grab them), she runs into places that are out of bounds, she purposely wakes children up when they are sleeping, she NEVER sleeps, she isn't toilet trained and won't even make an effort here. Most days she leaks through her diaper and pees on my chairs, her bed, blankets, etc. Her parents never bring her enough spare clothes, even though I have asked repeatedly. She won't sit at the table....half way through every meal, she is laying on the floor with food in her mouth. She goes through the other children's bags and takes their things. It's constant. She's like a little disobedient tornado that disrupts everything. I have praised her good behaviour (which is difficult to even find any in a day), I have tried time outs, I have tried rewards for good behaviour. Nothing works.

I speak to her mom every day about her behaviour. Yesterday, she repeatedly threw sand at the other children while playing in the sandbox. I asked 3 times and then removed her from the sandbox for her behaviour. As she was leaving she said "I'm going to hurt you". I reported this to mom, who laughed!!

Ugh. Anyway...it's a constant struggle. I really feel like a failure if I terminate care, but I don't know what else to do at this point. My daycare used to be so peaceful and fun, but now I am constantly nagging, and losing my patience.

When I talk to mom about her behaviour, I feel like they are all small things, and I feel like she thinks I'm overreacting.

I guess I mostly just needed to vent, but also wondering your thoughts? Is it too soon to terminate care? Do these seem like trivial reasons to terminate? I mean, she isn't aggressive, or angry. She doesn't hurt the other children. But she is very disruptive and disobedient, constantly. I haven't seen any improvement, and I have been very consistent.

My first thought is that you are giving too many warnings. Ask any of the kids in my daycare how many times I ask them to listen and they will tell you "One". For the throwing sand thing I would have given one reminder to stop and if she continued she would have a time out. If after time out she continues disobeying she would go straight back to time out. If she has to sit there and do nothing while the other kids play then that is her choice.

If she doesn't sit properly at the table I would be putting her in a booster seat with the seatbelt on. If have this problem with my own 2.5 year old daughter, I warn her that if she doesn't sit up properly then she goes in the booster seat - which she doesn't like.

Can you rearrange your daycare so that things she shouldn't be getting into cannot be accessible to her? Babygates to block areas that are off limits? Door knob covers? I hang all my daycare kids' backpacks on hooks mounted on the back wall of my coat closet that has doors. That kind of stuff may make your day abit easier.

Can she have nap time/quiet time somewhere else so that she can't disturb the other kids? Do you ensure that your mornings are busy and active to increase the chances that she will nap?

For the potty training, if the parents aren't working on it at home then it is going to be hard for you. Have you discussed potty training with her mom? Is this something they want right now? If she is leaking through her clothes then she needs to be changed more often or likely needs a bigger size diaper.

But if the mom isn't being supportive of you then maybe terminating care or doing a probationary period is in order. You need to stand your ground on the things you need, have a talk with the mom and tell her what you need and why.

I agree with everything Amanda said. I don't think you are being strict enough. Kids will walk all over you IF you let them. You need to make the changes like Amanda suggested to ensure that everything runs smoothly and rules are followed.

I also agree with Amanda and she has given great advice.

All the little trivial things add up and if it's affecting your mood and the daycare than it's time to let the parents know that they either have xxx amount of time to work on their child's behaviour or you will have no choice but to ask them to find alternate care.

I had a kid like this: disruptive, physically aggressive, told me he hated me. I tried different things and kept hoping that something would work. Eventually I terminated after realizing that this is my life, my home, my sanity, my business. Best thing I ever did!

Gathering mom laughed because it is normal behaviour as far as she is concerned for the child so doesn't even think about it any more and is not really realizing how the child comes across to others. Any chance she was let go from her previous daycare for similar behaviours. Agree on the being stricter. This is the type of child that you can not give an inch with. At the same time you can only tolerate so much in the home before it takes away from the day for the others and time for the child to move on - possibly to a daycare centre where she can be assessed and have someone assigned to work on behaviours with her.

Thank you for your thoughts. I realize now that I am being to easy on her. I guess it's because I feel like I'm already so hard on her by constantly being on her case about things. But today I am going to start with by telling her in advance that I will ask 1 time today. If she doesn't respond after 1 time of asking, it will be a time out.

Yesterday, her mom came to pick up and asked how her day was. I told her that it was a better day, but that she was testing a lot, and not following a lot of the rules. Her mom's response was "Oh, you know what? It's the age." She totally brushed it off. I really felt like saying how I have worked in many preschool rooms and have rarely encountered such rude, disrespectful behaviour from the children. It's not "the age". Ugh.

As for the toilet training, during the interview, the mom asked me how I felt about toilet training. I said I was happy to continue what the parents were doing at home. She made it out like they had started toilet training. She said that she felt bad that she had "dropped the ball", on her since she's 3 and not toilet trained. I asked her if she was going at home, and she said she will pee on the toilet at home, but she's never pooped on the toilet. Here I can't get her to do either. I am considering a reward system, but I honestly don't think that would work with her.

Her diapers are definitely too small. She is in size 4, which is the same size that my very tiny 15 month old wears. The mom said that she will eventually send her in pull ups, but that at the moment she has a ton of these diapers that she needs to use up first.

I also do need to take a look at restructuring some things in my daycare. We are in the basement, which is basically one big room. I have baby gates up at the kichen and playroom entrances, but the cubbies are just hooks on the wall, with baskets, so they have open access to that. Most times, they don't pay much attention, but since this little girl started getting into them - now they all want to.

I will try a few more things before I terminate. I will definitely cut down on the warnings and see if that helps. From now on, she gets asked one time.

Thanks for the help. I will give her a bit longer...she's paid for another week, so after next week, I will reassess the situation. Hopefully I can see some improvements soon, as I want to pull my hair out!!

Not sure if it's possible but can you put up a shelf to put the baskets on so they are off the floor and out of children's reach?

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Originally Posted by Poppy

Thank you for your thoughts. I realize now that I am being to easy on her. I guess it's because I feel like I'm already so hard on her by constantly being on her case about things. But today I am going to start with by telling her in advance that I will ask 1 time today. If she doesn't respond after 1 time of asking, it will be a time out.

Yesterday, her mom came to pick up and asked how her day was. I told her that it was a better day, but that she was testing a lot, and not following a lot of the rules. Her mom's response was "Oh, you know what? It's the age." She totally brushed it off. I really felt like saying how I have worked in many preschool rooms and have rarely encountered such rude, disrespectful behaviour from the children. It's not "the age". Ugh.

As for the toilet training, during the interview, the mom asked me how I felt about toilet training. I said I was happy to continue what the parents were doing at home. She made it out like they had started toilet training. She said that she felt bad that she had "dropped the ball", on her since she's 3 and not toilet trained. I asked her if she was going at home, and she said she will pee on the toilet at home, but she's never pooped on the toilet. Here I can't get her to do either. I am considering a reward system, but I honestly don't think that would work with her.

Her diapers are definitely too small. She is in size 4, which is the same size that my very tiny 15 month old wears. The mom said that she will eventually send her in pull ups, but that at the moment she has a ton of these diapers that she needs to use up first.

I also do need to take a look at restructuring some things in my daycare. We are in the basement, which is basically one big room. I have baby gates up at the kichen and playroom entrances, but the cubbies are just hooks on the wall, with baskets, so they have open access to that. Most times, they don't pay much attention, but since this little girl started getting into them - now they all want to.

I will try a few more things before I terminate. I will definitely cut down on the warnings and see if that helps. From now on, she gets asked one time.

Thanks for the help. I will give her a bit longer...she's paid for another week, so after next week, I will reassess the situation. Hopefully I can see some improvements soon, as I want to pull my hair out!!

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Tell mom that for sanitary reasons she needs diapers that fit her and that you can't have her peeing all over everything. Mom can use the too small ones at home and send proper ones for daycare - tell, don't ask, that she do so. Also don't accept the pullups unless she is actually having potty training success. Pullups aren't meant to be used as regular diapers, the leaking issue will just continue.

Ummmm ..... NEXT ...... The mom isn't helping in any way it's time for her to go!

So far today....it's been a better day. I started out telling her that I was going to ask her once and if she didn't listen it would be a time out. She's had two time outs so far, but I can tell that she's getting it a little better today.

I took them to the park to run around in an attempt to get her to use more energy. She used to sleep, her first two weeks here...and now she doesn't at all. The first two weeks, she slept every single day. She arrived at 7-7:30, until there was a shift change and now she gets here at 8-:8:30. I tried pushing lunch back just a little bit to see if she would be tired a bit later, but no luck. Anyway....sleep time hasn't been as great. And we just had yet another leak on her bed and sheets again!

I will definitely talk to mom about the diapers today. It's so frustrating dealing with leaks constantly. She is definitely being changed enough too...one minute I check her diaper and it's dry...and 20 minutes later she's leaked. So the frequency isn't the issue.

Good idea 5 Little Monkeys! I will try to fit a small shelf above their cubbies for their things. That would actually help a lot and I think I can fit one there.

I know that if a daycare provider told me that the diapers I sent with my child were too small and to bring new ones...I would automatically be on the defensive, and feel that my parenting was being questioned. How would you phrase it so as not to offend?

I would just say "I know you said you had a lot of diapers to use up but I'm wondering if you could use those ones at home and send bigger ones for daycare. I look after xxx amount of children and I unfortunately don't have the time to be constantly changing her to avoid leaks. If I don't change her every 20 minutes I am finding she is leaking through and it's making a bigger mess on the couch/bed/floor etc and it's just not sanitary."

Oh and again, not sure if possible but have you thought about using a dresser for their things instead of a basket?

In my nap/change room, I have a long 6 drawer dresser. I use the top for a changing area with a change pad and all the kids have a drawer to keep extra diapers, clothes etc. I think it would look really cute in an entrance way too to use as cubbies. You could put a boot tray on top of it to hold their dirty boots and such.

Ugh. So I told mom about the diapers being too small and she outright refused to buy more. She said she had to finish these ones and she wasn't going to spend 40.00 on a new box when she doesn't have to. She said she was "just going to leave it". Argh!

I like the dresser ideA. I hadn't thought of that. Thanks! I just need to figure out if I can fit one. :)

Ugh. So I told mom about the diapers being too small and she outright refused to buy more. She said she had to finish these ones and she wasn't going to spend 40.00 on a new box when she doesn't have to. She said she was "just going to leave it". Argh!

I like the dresser ideA. I hadn't thought of that. Thanks! I just need to figure out if I can fit one. :)

That is very frustrating! At that point I would have become more firm and asked again for bigger diapers and explained due to sanitary reasons that she wouldn't be allowed in daycare until she had bigger diapers.

Tell mom she can pay $40 for new diapers or she can pay for dry cleaning and carpet cleaning after each diaper leak. She could easily sell the open diapers on kijiji to recoup some of the money. There is no acceptable reason for a daycare parent to be this difficult.

Parents like this can make a tough job harder. If they are brushing off your feedback and not supporting you, then this will be a very frustrating experience for you.

As a minimum, I'd be speaking to these parents and telling them that her disruptive behaviour is more than just a phase and that you expect their support in addressing these issues. If they are not willing to provide the correct sized diapers, or to address these issues jointly with you, let them go somewhere else. It's just not worth the disruption, the frustration or the additional cleaning.

Sadly, not all clients are good clients.