Need to vent...going to snap!

My 18 mos DCB is my "handful" as 5 little monkeys calls them. He has been challenging from the beginning. Difficult transition, hunger strike, crying, wants to be held all the time. There have been some big improvements but I kind of think I am done or about done.

He cried all week whenever we were outside. This is a problem as we spend a lot of time outside. We had to come in early today as he was just too much of a mess it wasn't worth it anymore. He woke up from nap today after an hour and has just been screaming. He has now woken up the other kids sleeping in the room with him. This is usually the case on Mondays after a weekend with mom and dad but once Tues hits he knows not to cry in his bed but lay quietly/sleep until nap time is over.

The parents have been working with me, putting him to bed earlier, not picking him up as much but I am wondering if he should be with someone else who will dote on him all the time. Maybe a new provider with less kids or a nanny. His parents are always excusing it with "teething," woke up early, the sky is blue etc. I think he is just a fussy/sucky kid who gets his way at home and is coddled. His mom makes him alternative meals and does baby talk with him (my pet peeve)

What has saved this kid so far is that he is so cute. He is very sweet and truly loves me. I care about him too and like his parents but I don't know if I can't keep this up for much longer.

Can I make this work. Am I just having a rough day/week and need to deal with it?

Damn, it's always the cute ones who are a pain in the butt initially. It's the kitten syndrome. LOL

Although it sounds like the parents are listening to your advice, it also sounds like some of it is being taken with a pinch of salt when their justifications/excuses are offered. I know it's so damn hard when it's going on.

Baby-ing by parents is my pet peeve too. I'm having this at the moment here with a 2.5 year old who is one of the oldest so I feel your pain.

Take the weekend - put some distance between you and the situation and then decide. If it is too much, then fair enough but don't make a rash decision at the end of a long, hard week. In terms of notice, it's not a lot of difference if you issue it Friday evening or Monday morning.

I think you need to be a little easier on this kid and his parents. If their child is upset and they choose to comfort him in the way that is best for their family, that is their choice as parents. Withdrawing love and affection from children, when they are going through a tough time, is counter-productive. I think any reasonable daycare provider would know this. It hurts my heart to see these posts. Yes, you have a hard job, and children can be challenging and frustrating, but the more you deny a child the physical and emotional comfort he NEEDS, the more difficult and challenging he will be as he gets older. I would seriously question any provider that tells me not to pick up, comfort and hold an 18 month old. Perhaps they would be better off with someone who is a little more understanding about high needs babies.

From my understanding, Torontokids has been VERY understanding when it comes to this child! It sounds like this child is spoiled, and Torontokids isn't withholding love/affection from him, she's just refusing to coddle, which I completely agree with. I didn't coddle either of my two daughters, and if anyone insinuated that I withheld love from them, you have another think coming! I believe because I DIDN'T coddle them, they have both grown to be independent, respectful, children! This little guy needs to learn that he's at daycare, and there are certain rules, like staying quiet in bed until nap is over. All my dck's learned it, but the ones that were coddled/spoiled at home, took a little longer to figure it out. Torontokids, I would take the weekend to think it over, but I have a feeling you've already made a decision. Good luck!!

Thanks for the feedback.

I will take the weekend to think things over. I appreciate the perspective re: withholding affection as you call it. I think there is a difference between being affectionate (which I am) and answering to every child's beck and call and holding them 24 hr's a day. We would clearly not be a provider/parent match.I think that kind of parenting is a recipe for burn out really. I have friends that parent this way. Not only do they start to resent their child and lack of me time but their relationships with their partners are put on hold as one person can only give so much

And to add, I've been working with this child for 6 mos and he is definitely high needs

agree with FSD 100% not carrying a child 24/7 is not withholding love it is teaching independence. I too have had a few sucky kids and it drives me nuts. I don't have time to hold multiple children all day and refuse to. That doesn't mean they don't get hugs and comfort when needed.

My "handful" has been giving me issues eating lately. He will hold the food in his mouth forever. Today while reminding him to chew he decided to stuff about 4 tater tots in his mouth (without chewing) and had his mouth so full he was gagging! WTH!! This better not be his "new thing". I made him spit it all out and of course that resulted in him crying. I don't know what to do with him. Mom says he doesn't do it at home. It usually results in me having to clean his mouth out with my finger because he won't swallow and I can't put him to bed with a full mouth of food. sigh.....is it the weekend yet!!

Love means appropriate boundaries and expectations. It does not mean pandering to their every whim.

When a child is taught that they are the centre of the universe - they believe it. What a complete injustice to that child. When a child is never told 'no', they don't understand boundaries. When a child doesn't have to work towards a goal, they have no sense of achievement.

Pandering to the whim of a demanding child is very, very different to placing boundaries in a loving and caring environment.

I think to be fair to the child , parents have to understand in a dayhome setting , a child is not treated as an individual but rather as part of a group . To make my point clearer I do not mean the child is not an individual , he/she should be treated as a lovely part of a bigger unit .
The focus is in the group as a whole , if only one dislikes bananas , we will serve bananas the one child's individual likes/dislikes are taken into consideration but are not the only concern . As it sounds , these parents of course love their sweet child but unless you are employing a nanny , the caretakers focus will be on the whole group a opposed to one child getting special treatment .
I love this board ! Reading about other dayhomes crafts , vents ect make me feel supported , what I dislike is an obvious misconstruing argumentative response to a question that truly exists !!
And is relevant . I have a couple of princesses and princes as well and it totally depends on parents as to if it works out ! I have told my parents I care for them all equally !! They are all special ! My whole group gets special times sitting with me ect but I do not cater to one child specifically . If that makes me hurt your heart ..... My parents would back me up ! I have most of my dayhome kids not want to leave !

LOL....to be fair, I affectionately call them my handfuls!! Seems like every group there is always one though....I dread the day I have a group with more than one handful ;)

I agree with the other ladies. Take the weekend to think about it and re-evaluate on Monday. If you don't think you are a good fit I say you gave it a good try!! Some kids need more attention than group care can offer. Nothing wrong with that!!

My issue isn't that you are having trouble with this child, and are trying to find a good way to deal with it. It's with the fact that you identify the fact that a parent decides to pick his/her son up as a "problem", and believing that an 18 month old is coddled. If this child were older, then I would agree that coddling may be an issue. But an 18 month old? Nope. He has only been in this world for 18 months, and maybe the world is harder for him to adapt to. Yes, as care providers, you have every right to have policies and procedures in place in your own homes, in order to make the day run smoothly for everyone. I am not unrealistic. I don't expect care providers to hold my daughter all day long. I expect them to have standards and policies that benefit the group as a whole. Let's not make the very illogical, uninformed leap from me saying "understand where the kid is coming from" to "that child will be ruined because you pander to his every whim." That is a completely false equivalency, it is reductive, and it distorts the point that I am making. These parents have every right to talk to their son how they want, to feed him what they want, to hold and snuggle and care for him how they want to. If it makes your life more difficult, then maybe you aren't a good fit. But it is extremely unfair to come here and criticize their parenting, when they have no recourse to defend themselves.

At this point in time, this child doesn't seem to be a good "fit". But that may very well change in a few months. I take issue with the fact that kids who have high emotional needs are automatically lumped into the "coddled" group. He is obviously having a very rough time. My friend's daughter was the same way, and it was only recently, after being in care for 8 months, that she has finally come around. Luckily, she had a wonderful care provider who stuck it out. So for some kids, it takes much more time. It doesn't mean that they are coddled, or spoiled, or difficult. They just have different needs, and that is ok. This is what you sign up for when you have a home daycare. Different kids, different parents, different styles of parenting.

What are you talking about?????? I think you need to take a step back and chill your attitude, and point of view. I understand you only joined this group a few weeks ago, so I suggest before casting stones you visit all past posts prior to judging
I have a 10 month old that is coddled to much, like never touches the ground, and I'll let you in on a little secret, She never misbehaves at my home.
At their home, she throws food on the floor, screams non stop, doesn't nap at all, and needs to have her bottle held for her at home.
The reason why, I put my foot down on day one, and said "No", you need to play with your friends, you need to nap, you ned to use your mannors ect. She has only been foe three weeks and is awsome now, while at home they still have all the issues listed above.

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Originally Posted by Kathleen12

... and maybe the world is harder for him to adapt to....I don't expect care providers to hold my daughter all day long. I expect them to have standards and policies that benefit the group as a whole. ..If it makes your life more difficult, then maybe you aren't a good fit....

At this point in time, this child doesn't seem to be a good "fit". But that may very well change in a few months. ...My friend's daughter was the same way, and it was only recently, after being in care for 8 months, that she has finally come around...This is what you sign up for when you have a home daycare. Different kids, different parents, different styles of parenting.

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Although I agree with a lot you've said, I think tempers are boiling due to some basic misunderstandings.

No carer denies love or attention to a child who needs it. We all understand that initially, a child is adjusting to a new carer, a new environment and a new situation. And yes, some children do have high emotional needs especially in times of change. I think you feel that we cut off all physical comfort to a distressed and upset new child but that's not the case.

Please understand that every single carer here will pick up an 18 month old child who is crying and upset to comfort them. But when we are referring to a screamer, particularly the child who prompted this thread, we are referring to a child who screams to be picked up, clings to us like a vine every time we put them down. We are referring to a child who expects to be carried ALL day. They are so distressed being away from their parents that they literally will not release their carer. This goes on for the entire day, for months, unless we address it.

You made the point of stating that you wouldn't expect a carer to carry your child around all day - however, it's often the case that children with high emotional needs do indeed hope for this. It's been shown time and time again, when we pick up a child and the crying immediately stops, and yet when we try and put that child down, even if we've waited until they are giggling/watching their peers/interested in the activity, they will immediately scream again and not cease until back in our arms. This is when, many providers have to harden their hearts a little and be firm from the get go.

We know why they are doing it. We understanding they are upset, not familiar with what's happening, seeking comfort, however, experience has often shown us, that by picking that child up, we are merely re-enforcing to them that screaming will result in what they wish for. We've all tried doing this for days, weeks, months, but it always results in the same - sooner or later we merely have to deny them. It's simply time geography in when we do it. - Do we do it from the get go or do we do it months down the line which is additionally distressing as the child doesn't understand the change? Do we all suffer the broken back, the difficulty of trying to give equal attention to the others, just to delay the inevitable? Do we take that child who refused to be put down to the bathroom with us - is that appropriate or even fair to us, as human looking after a toddler who isn't ours to have to pee with an 18 month old clingy desperately to us?

As providers, many of us learn, not to pick a child up initially when they join, especially if they have high emotional needs. Instead, getting on the floor with the group, making sure there's lots of interactions, changing activities frequently, all help to reassure the child that we are here and not going anywhere. Also, in the few mins when that child isn't screaming, we make a point of putting them on our knee - effectively giving the attention they all would like, when they are calmer vs rewarding the screaming. This approach has proven time and time again, to help a child settle faster.

Carrying a child for weeks and or months before tackling this, is not a settled child. It's an illusion of a settled/settling child who is demanding most of the carer's attention and taking time away from the other children who are equally entitled to her attention.

We have to put in place age appropriate boundaries and expectations. As much as we would like to say to parents that we will rub a child's back until they fall asleep, we don't have 6 hands. As much as we would like to say to parents that we will carry a child as often as they would like, we don't have 6 arms - or 6 backs. It is far kinder to the child to be clear from the get go and to love and support them as they adjust.

But please understand - this isn't about what is easier for the provider! LOL It's about making it easier for the child!!!! It s about that child getting consistency.

Inconsistency between home and day care are confusing. Children like security - security in consistent expectations, boundaries, outcomes.

A nanny caring for one of two children can certainly mirror the parenting style but a day care environment who has several small children, cannot. We cannot mirror 6 sets of parenting styles. It's impossible. But what we can do, is when we see a child struggling, approach the parents in the hope that all the adults can work together for the success of that child.

Some children come to day care and skip in on day one, ready to make friends, bubbly and confident. Those children are an absolute joy to have because it's creates no stress for the child, the provider or the other children in the day care.

Emotionally needy children need the parent and carer to work together to develop realistic expectations on behalf of the child. An emotionally needy child does not always benefit from parents who are overly accommodating of their demands. More often, with gentle encouragement and persuasion from adults the child trusts, what gets the better results, is gradually exposing that child to their insecurities. Getting them used to Mommy popping out for a few hours and leaving the child in the care of someone else (NOT Dad). Getting used to not being picked up everytime they wish for it. Being made to wait those few mins for Mommy to eat her hot meal before getting the child a second drink, lifting onto her lap. These are simply steps that the parents of an emotionally needy child can take to show their child that the World won't stop spinning for the few mins the child has to wait. And they are massively helpful for a child to adjust to day care.

You'd be amazed how many parents will carry a 4 year old from the car up the front steps. Why? Because it's faster for the parent to do so. However, it's confusing to the 4 year old why I won't carry him over a distance he's more than capable of walking.

You'd be amazed how many parents come in at pick up time, put the shoes and jacket on their child and zipper it up - and yet, I've likely just spent a good hour plus with that child, teaching them how to do that and the child is super excited about their achievement.

You'd be amazed at how many parents bring their child in with a toy from home despite knowing that outside toys (other than a napping friend) aren't permitted because they didn't want to deal with upsetting that child in the car by insisting it was left there.

You'd be amazed how many parents pick up their baby because she/he is crying as a newborn but then they continue to do so each time their child cries age 1, 2, 3 and beyond.

Eight months for your friends child to settle is a very long time. We have all had those children and we've all stuck it out. However, as our experience grows, we realize how very stressful that is not just for the child or even us but all the other children in the group and to be honest, we all pay a very high price for accommodating a child whose having a tough time settling for so long.

Yes - we understand that children have different emotional needs but understand too, these aren't our children. We aren't obligated to work and work for months and often lose clients who think their child is missing out on attention during this time. Consider how upsetting it is to 5 children who are in an established group, who play nicely, who love their day care and the adventures they have, who enjoy snuggling up at story time to have a child come in and and demand 100% of their carer's time or they scream for hours. Who enjoyable do you think that day care is for the other children?

And that is why, as carers, we ask for parents support. We ask for certain actions to be reduced. We ask for parents not to pick up their 18 month old each time they whimper. "Coddling" is the term some use and I think that's what aggravated you - but we cannot mirror a parents actions for dealing with a high emotional needs child and so we ask for a consistent approach for the benefit of the child.

When after months of doing all we can hasn't resulted in a settled child, we have no option sometimes but to let them go especially if a parent isn't being supportive in resolving this.

Yes, parents can parent in anyway they choose but sometimes, parents parent in a manner than emotionally paralyses their child if the exact same processes aren't followed. No one, however much they love children, is obligated to try and fix that emotional neediness single handed without the support of the parents, and no-one is obligated to try and do so beyond a time frame that the provider feels appropriate. They have a responsibility to all the children in their care not just one.

I totally agree with Rachel's post!! Perfectly said!

I would also have to add that we need to give these little people more credit. Yes they are only 18 months but in their 18 months they have learned A LOT. They know how to get what they want and how they want it, they know structure and rules already. I have an 18 month old. I have had him since he was 11 months. When he came to me he was on 100% puree baby food. Mom said she could not get him eating chunky food at all. I worked at it (he was stubborn) and now he eats everything we eat. He still screams for mom and often gets fed soft foods like pancakes, blueberries etc. He has also never ever had a soother here (I don't allow them). Every time I see the family out they have it in his mouth.

Personally I don't say too much to parents unless it is something major. I would never tell a family what they need to do. I will make comments like Oh that might be why he isn't sleeping the full nap time here (when they say he sleeps for over 12 hours at night). Kids learn the rules are different at one place to the next. My handful hit his mother in the face on Friday when she picked up. He would never ever try that with me. Kids aren't stupid, they learn and learn quickly. Lets give them some credit.