Ratios, fees, what's your thoughts ? ministry changes

Hi all, I would love for you to share Your thoughts on this proposed letter of mine:
I am hoping you can provide me with some insight and inform me of any plans or discussions that are taking Place that would or might change the way things are currently done for and at private home childcares.
In particular I am concerned about full day learning and how this is going to impact home daycare and licensed homes. Upon my research I have found that Non licensed homes have 5 or 6 children no matter the age. I have found that there is one insurance company that will even insure a home for 6 childcare children ...so now we know that this is what those "more legal" unlicensed homes are doing and we can figure they are earning 5childrenx$40=$200 or $240 per day minus all the expenses. We also all know that there are some homes that have 10 daycare children in them and therefore are completely uninssured.
Licensed homes can currently only have 3 children under the age of 3..and with full day learning in place for next year we home providers will be having a huge paycut that will not make doing home daycare financially feesable. 3 x $35= $105/day minus expenses and food. ($35 is the county rate for over a child 18months and older, which should be $40 at least all the way across the board for any child) Food costs have increased dramatically and it now costs so much more per child per day that the income is not the same anymore...more than half and nearly 3/4 of the childcare fees go towards expenses. Gas prices and increased insurance costs have affected everyone.
So I guess that brings me to county provider pay, ratios, and ministry policy.. now that we are under the new ministry regulations, are there or can there be discussions brought forward to address the concerns of the continuance of licensed private home daycare. As many are aware, private home daycare offers a nonconventional daycare service often serving the needs of families with varying schedules, very early, late or overnight or weekend care that institutionalized childcares do not serve. Without licensed private home daycare children and their families will have less licensed and subsidized spaces available to them and there will be a financial impact within the community.
In my opinion , There should be better incentive for providing nonconventional childcare hours. $5 per day for before 630am, or after 6pm or on weeends would be more appropriate seeing the additional time, food etc used by that child. Children in care more than 10 hours should be compensated more as well! Children using before and after school should be paying $25 per day standard no matter how many hours, as they are holding up a spot... and this is still cheaper than what the school board quoted families and should include breakfast. This schoolage care is a much needed service in our communities but providers dont offer the service because it doesnt create any income, the pay as it is is absorbed by expenses and these children take up a full spot when they use before and after school care. Ratios should be increased to maximum of 6 children per home no matter the age and allow should allow for assistants or partners to work together...
I hope my insight and suggestions can be considered in any current or future discussions around these issues.
Thanks for listening and for considering my thoughts and for forwarding them on to any appropriate bodies.
Best regards, I look forward to hearing back from you!

I understand what you are saying but don't forget that parents are paying the fees you are quoting - the licensed agency is skimming off the top. That is why privately I earn an extra $5 per child. For the little I received when I worked for the agency I figured I could do a lot more with an extra $25 week per child. I was much happier when I severed ties.

I do agree that the whole age ratio needs to be looked at. First the afterschool issue that there will now be 4-5 year olds only needing before and after care so there is no way they should count in your ratios the same as if they were there most of the day. But yes it then leaves you limited to having very few children all day and having to accept school age JK and up to make a group of 5. I think what is going to happen is a lot of caregivers are going to give up on agencies and a lot of families may follow suit if they are happy with the caregiver they have and not want to leave. That is what happened when I left the agency.

Hi Playfelt :) Thanx for the reply..I contemplate leaving the agency, but wonder how the families who need subsidy will ever find care if there are no more licensed subsidzed spots open..?? Especially the schoolagers, because the centres do not get them to school..and where I am only one school has care on site..also unfortunatly, The county said we cannot charge any additional fees on top of what they set fees at because they set the fees and we are not aloud to charge any extra..they say they already gave the parent a needs assessment and are told to pay what they can,,that they cant pay any more so we arent aloud to charge them. although I do charge a tiny amount to drive them to school..if i left the agency I could charge less and have more children in care...but not sure if charging less is better if there are too many children...sigh..I would love to see a big pay increase and ratios changed so they dont lose us licensed homes..

I think it will take full day care up and running everywhere with the schools doing the daycare they are supposed to do etc. before daycare centres and agencies will be forced to go to the ministry themselves to get ratios changed or they will be out of a job. I know daycare centres are upset too because they use the higher teacher ratio of the older kids to offset costs for the low ratios for infants. If they have just the little ones it will cost them more for staff.

so true playfelt! The crazy thing is..for some reason, it appears as though it is difficult to get $20 or $25 per day for before and afterschool in my home where im limited to 5 children, but the school can charge $27 a day and have 30...somehow their services are better? Well I wonder if the school will start care at 530 or 6am? Everyone appears to be concerned and the whole conversation has died in the media..

Most school based programs here are 7 am to 6 pm and include snack and homework help pllus the usual crafts, games, etc. Parents like the drop off and go and not have to worry about the kid - that is till the child is sick or school is closed. The school program also qualifies for subsidy spots too so some go because of that.

Which province are you in? In BC licensed family child care allows for 4 under 4 Yo. School starts at 5 years and has also begun as full days. We struggle out here as well, even with 4, we can however have up to 7. If you are running full at 7 then income really should be around $3000-$4000 per month before tax and running costs. I however am not full, I'm running with 4/5dcks right now so the income is a bit less then where I need it to be also because my own child fits in these ratios. **Sigh**

In Ontario. They are gradually move to full day JK and SK. Kids can start Junior Kindergarten through the school board in Sept as young as 3 3/4 as in they will turn 4 before Dec 31. For Senior Kindergaren they start at 4 and turn 5 by Dec 31. That leaves those of us doing daycare caring just for kids that are 3 1/2 and younger if we want full day kids. It also means it is hard when moms go back after maternity leave with the second because often there is only one more year of care for the older one till they start school. They then need to look for a caregiver in their school area so the child can be bussed to their school. There is a waiting list for school based care. For those that did JK/SK care it was a half day of school and often they charged the parents pretty close to the regular full day rate and then of course more on school holidays. Other than the hassles of getting them back and forth to school or bus stop the pay was good. Now we have just babies. The biggest thing I find with having only under 3 is that when I do a circletime I am much more the performer as half my group doesn't even talk let alone sing along. I have had to simply things over the years to the point it doens't seem like teaching anymore. In Ontario you can have 5 kids of any age mix. With an agency they have age restrictions of 2 under 2 and 3 under 3 and your own kids count so a mom home with her own baby and toddler can only have one other child that isn't in school if she is with an agency. Privately your own kids don't count so at least you can have 3 daycare children. But since the age mix doesn't apply we just take two more under 3 and have our group of 5. To me it works better because we are all on the same page doing the same things and I am not torn between babies and school agers. No more clock watching to meet buses.

Sadly I fear that the industry of family in home daycares is fading. JK as young as 3.5!? That's crazy...and these are full days!? Preschool for 4 hours a week is one thing but full time K. Ugh

I am with a Licensed Agency, the way that providers are reimbursed for subsidized clients placed in their care really discourages anyone who might be willing to offer this kind of care. The rate paid to providers for subisidized clients is not as much as that of the agency I have a contract with, so their are two rates paid by the agency, one for parents dealing directly with them and one for the parents who they provide the service for through the government contract. I believe the provincial government needs to practise what they preach, they cannot demand first class daycare; making additional demands for their clients, (additional rules and regulations must be met for them); when they are not willing to pay providers at the very least the going private rate. The provincial government needs to support home day care providers; to ensure this valuable service is available they must acknowledge that providers are hard working dedicated entrepreneurs and deserve their respect.

So I started my dayhome in may. I am private. Does that mean that there are no ate restrictions. I have been following the rules for licensed dayhomes Bc I could not find info on private. Does anyone know what the regulations for private dayhome is in Alberta?

OP, I assume you are in Ontario.

First off, leave the agency. You can do better on your own.

Second, I agree the rules and numbers thing is really STUPID. First off, if you are unlicensed, private home daycare you can have five chlildren PLUS your own. So, technically I could have SIX of my OWN kids and STILL have five dckids???:blink:

It doesn't make sense. I know most providers have two children of their own. So, all in all that means that when their own kids were little they actually CARED for and were responsible for SEVEN kids each and every day. But then suddenly when their own kids go off to school they are now only capable of the five max rule??

I hate full day learning. I hate how it has robbed home daycares of the older kids. Now we are stuck with only babies coming off of mat leave that we have, if we are lucky, for a year and a half - MAX- until their moms go back on mat leave with her second child. And, then, by the time that mat leave is over the oldest sibling (the kid we previously had in care) is old enough to go off to school so they find daycare close to their home.

It's insane. I am sooooooo tired of basically now only having babies in care ALL THE TIME. It feels like you just get them transitioned and they are gone. It also means more stress for providers as we are always transitioning a 12 mth old. And we ALL know what goes with that - the screaming, the extra work involved with the wee ones.

I actually see home daycare getting busier. If you look at the centre model the bulk of their money was always made from the older kids as the ratio of provider to child was much lower. But in the baby care it is 1:3. I know centers in Ontario don't make ANY money on the 12-18 mth groups due to staffing ratios. So, in order to survive with mostly younger ones in the daycare and all the older kids in public schools they are gonna have to jack their fees for the younger ones to a level that makes home daycare MUCH more attractive with regard to fees.

Centres are already asking for help from the government in making ends meet. Just read this:

http://www.childcareontario.org/?p=4828