Shocked-Social Services

I have been following Tammy Larabie's story and I am in complete shock. I have been running a home daycare or many years and as I mom with two children I can't believe this.

I have an issue I am dealing with currently with a family. This issue with a combination of Tammys story made me realize that daycare is too much of a liability.

I had a family who thought their 12 month old child got beat up by a toddler on his first day of her starting daycare. DCM thought this happened while I quickly went to the washroom. Her demands were insane but at the time I needed to fill the spot quick and being a single mom I didn't have any additional income.
She demanded that I rock the child to sleep and let him sleep in my bed, feed him pureed foods (no solids) every 1.5 hours and give him formula bottles every 3 hours (special timing). In addition, he could only be changed on my carpet not on changing mat or changing table in my washroom.

Needless to say this child had a horrible time adjusting and his first day he threw him self all over the floor and playpen when I would try to get him to sleep. I told mom she had to pick up because the child was almost to the point of puking from crying. DCM didn't like this very much.

DCB had a very red marks ( looked more like a rash). DCM didn't like that I wasn't able to accommodate all her wants as I had their children to look after not just her and that I called her to pick up because DCB was crying uncontrollably.

She wanted to term right away no notice what so ever. I ask for a three weeks deposit and in my contract it stats that if the contract is broken and I don't get a three weeks notice the deposit will not be refunded.

DCM showed up to my house the next day demand money (walking right into my house) I said I don't refund money if I am not given notice as it was stated in the contract BUT I will see what I could do. I felt bad for her since she was a single mom herself.

I don't know about the rest of you ladies but daycare has been VERY slow. I told DCM that since I still haven't been able to fill her spot there was no way I could afford to refund her. She told me she is going to take me to court and today I ironically received a phone call from child and social services. They will be coming to the daycare this evening because someone called in and complained about my daycare.

I have no idea what to expect or what to say. I am so upset I got all parents to pick kids up early due stress. I don't want to keep the children in a stressful environment. I have never ever had an issue with this so I am scared/not scared/sad/mad just a mix of emotions. Does anyone know what will happen when they come?

Any advice/support would be nice :(

If u have nothing to hide then don't worry. Obviously that mom called and is just taking revenge on u because you couldn't "nanny" her son. Go around ur home now and tidy it up make sure safe things are in place, plug covers, wires up etc. have your contracts ready they will want to see how many kids are enrolled. Just answer all their questions honestly and show them ur daycare space. Don't worry .....again if u don't have Anything to hide don't worry :). On another note, it really reks me when a mom insists we do all these demands with their child. Don't they realize we have or could have four other kids in our care to tend to? I'm sure they wouldn't like it if their child was playing on their own while we rocked another one to sleep urgh!!! Lol. Good luck tonight. No worries :)

First off relax! Despite what some people think about the CAS, they are not out to get anyone. The people that are really anti CAS are usually people who have a reason to be. If you have nothing to hide then I would try not to stress out (easier said then done!) They are just going to follow through with their obligation to ensure that there isn't anything shady going on.

As for the mom- Document, document, document! Any future conversations you have with this mom needs to be through email, text or written letter. Keep every conversation you have. Start a file with any and all communication, the contract etc.

What does your contract say regarding her deposit? Are you in the right to keep it as you aren't providing care but asked her to pick her child up? She may be entitled to have it back if you aren't honoring the termination period agreement.

I agree with both ladies. I am sure you will be fine so try to relax. Take some time and get the daycare "show ready" and have your contracts laid out so they can read them. If you have any letters of references from past clients or cards with notes in them, I'd have those handy too just in case. It shows that past clients were happy with your services.

I would be nervous too but not because I have anything to hide...it's just natural to be on the defense when someone makes a false claim against you I think. Have a bottle of wine chilling in the fridge and ask a friend to come over when the visit is done. I would want to have a drink and vent to a friend or my husband when it's all over lol

Good luck!!

Calm down. It will be fine. If you got nothing to hide, nothing to worry about.

I hope some of your issue with this parent documented. Not all verbal. It important when client being tricky to stop the conversations and use text or e-mail. This is hard evidence if needed. Conversation is hearsay. Always good idea to switch to e-mail or text for tricky customers.

One step at a time...

First social services. They will come in. They will look around. If you are registered, speak to your agency and get some advice. If you not registered, no big deal.

Do you know your regs and obligations and work inside them?

When SS come, they will look at your set up briefly. Unregistered not take long as fewer regs. They will check you aren't over number, they will check kids properly cared for. It might be good idea to have contracts copied for all babies and parent contact details. These client can back up your care and confirm to SS which children are in your care. Parent not stupid. They know how many kids you care for even if they not know the limits. This good for SS to be able to confirm. Transparency good.

If your regs for unregistered is just numbers, that's all they can check on except for obvious abuse/neglect/poor standards of care. They can't make you have covered sockets, stair gates or anything else that not in your provincial regs. If your regs are numbers and something else, then that's all they can check on. They can't make up requirements which not part of your regs.

Tell them straight that you believe this complaint from unrealistic client who you refused to return deposit to because she not give notice. Have copy of her contract there too.

Would be good if there is an e-mail exchange of her demands and then her leaving and wanting deposit returned. Is any of it in writing?

Understand they must come in if there is a complaint. They get malicious complaints at times. They not stupid. They not interested in making life hard for good carers. They just have to follow up.

Next, this client - Don't let intimidate you. She not give proper notice, so she not get money. Ignore her calls, you need everything in writing. If she text or message demanding refund, be professional and polite. Everything you say might end up in front of Small Claim Judge so good incentive to mind your words. Just reply that the contact explain that notice required or deposit forfeited and say you are not refunding because no notice. If you can, attach copy of her contract so she can see - but also so Judge can see that you made sure she had paperwork to check.

And sit back - she most likely bluffing about court. She is in wrong, not you. So, what she going to take you to court for? She will have to pay to file case and then if she lose, she have to pay costs too. She has no grounds to sue.

You not obligated to answer all her message. Next demand, just answer one time, with copy of contract and decline refund. Then stop talking. No need to repeat. No need explain. She can read contract. If she got problem still, let her file in court.

STOP BEING NICE - every time you agree to let her off the terms of the contract, you are changing it. If you have clear papers saying non-refundable and then you agree to give her refund being nice, you have just agreed to change terms and you lose all your rights. What is point of having contract and then letting client rip off anyway?

You told her you could not refund now STOP TALKING to her, STOP renegotiating. Only written replies, keep everything, and stick to your contact or you will talk yourself into a hole.

Thank you so much
I feel better already. I was dreading doing the dishes today but in the end I don't think I've ever finished so fast! I went over everything, it's all clean and tidy. I have all conversations saved Should I mention to the social worker how last night I told DCM I could not refund her and she said she would take me to court and then the next day? When I asked who made the report she said she could not say as they wanted to remain anonymous so is it worth it to mention this parent and show my communication with this paren t to the worker? the dcm left me 2 weeks ago and in this 2 weeks I was trying to refund her money because I felt bad about the situation and I honestly didn't want to be bothered by her as she is very demanding because I have my own kids to wrry about but I cant afford it I barely have any kids here last night I told the mom I just cant afford to give her her money back and she told me she will go to court and then this call today

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Originally Posted by Hape*

Should I mention to the social worker how last night I told DCM I could not refund her and she said she would take me to court and then the next day? When I asked who made the report she said she could not say as they wanted to remain anonymous so is it worth it to mention this parent and show my communication with this parent to the worker?

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I not think they too worried about details of your contract. That not their job. They understand disputes happen.

I think I would say that I am sure who is behind complaint, that they been tricky client and demanding refund not entitled to have. Leave it like that. If it not come up, don't worry.

Main thing is be honest when they ask you a question and look them in the eye - they just need to do their job and follow up on the complaint by a visit to your daycare - it is just part of their job , they see both sides and need to tell the parent they checked up on you and everything is in order
Good Luck and keep us informed

I just finished my meeting with the worker and I wantd to update ever body , the meeting was so good she was nice and said couple times that mostly these calls are out of spite only about 10% that they receive are truly real complaint. I told her about my conversation last night with parent and she little bit hint to me that she was the culprit although the she could not say she told me as her job require her to not say who report. Now she said part of the policy is to call 3 current parent to ask about me I am worried these other parents will wonder what happened and may leave now as a report is never good no matter what the intent is behind it. She told me she will put a good word while she question the other 3 parents but I still worry I will now lose the only client I had.

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Originally Posted by Hape*

I just finished my meeting with the worker and I wantd to update ever body , the meeting was so good she was nice and said couple times that mostly these calls are out of spite only about 10% that they receive are truly real complaint. I told her about my conversation last night with parent and she little bit hint to me that she was the culprit although the she could not say she told me as her job require her to not say who report. Now she said part of the policy is to call 3 current parent to ask about me I am worried these other parents will wonder what happened and may leave now as a report is never good no matter what the intent is behind it. She told me she will put a good word while she question the other 3 parents but I still worry I will now lose the only client I had.

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No. Just be honest. Tell client basics of what happened. Explain that SS have been out and are satisfied but this is a requirement. Tell them that you have nothing to hide, they are welcome to confirm that for themselves when speaking to SS. As long as you transparent, client's are understanding.

Just have a chat with the parent tomorrow that the ss may call her just as a follow up call as they came to visit and all went well and they may call you too - if the parent asks anything they don't usually say too much and it was a good visit so sound cheerful and she will know it is fine, just them doing their job- I am happy for you:)

This morning I receive email from the DCM. She state she was the one who called SS that she report me to SS for negligent. Then she said she will no longer be placing care with me due to risk of repeated assault ...2 very different things I think.
When I meet with SS they said it was very odd that she called 3 weeks later after I confirm she wil not be issue the refund as the matter happened 3 week ago. She also said she is willing to clos the matter locally if the last 2 deposit are refunded by april 2, I receive the letter just now. is this proper notice such as enough days by law?
she also state if not this will be escalated to proper authorities where full refund will be demanded and compensation for punitive damage.. I don't know what punitive is.

This sounds like bribery. If you have documented evidence and reasonable reasons the child was bruised or whatever the case, then stand your ground. I think this is disgusting that if she truly thought her child had been neglected or assaulted, she not only waits 3 weeks before reacting but she is willing to 'sweep it under the rug' for the sake of a couple hundred bucks.
That's a new kind of low.

Keep the email.

Do not respond to it.

Do the same with any further emails she sends.

Should she proceed with any further action, they will be to your benefit.

I would also consider sending this email along to the social service worker who came to see you.

Just curious...how long did this child actually come to your home?

Child come for one day. DCM got upset I call to pick up early because child was cry a lot and throwing self. I ask families to fill out "Child Information Sheet". She added to that I need to pay extra attention to her son because he throws himself a lot. This is where I think some red mark come from. He come to daycare with bruises already so hard to say it happened here. SS suspect racial profiling since DCM is fixated with DCB of color no other kid not even blam me. He 12 months and she want me to give him 4-6 formula bottles along with meals, snacks and water. She also say to change child on my carpet because DCB hates being changed in bathroom, also not to put DBC near big toy because he scared of big object. She also wanted child rocked (he very heavy 12 month size 6 diapears I have bad back so I cannot do this) and to sleep in my bed if playpen not working. If I give extra attention to her child then I neglect others but that didn't bother her. Very Selfish women. My mistake to let her come. We do interview in December start date for March 18. On 12th she tell me mom get laid off every year July-Sept and she cant afford to pay daycare so she ask me for more of a discount. She trick me and waited last minute to tell me this info. :mad:

Key word here is SHE ENDED IT. U didn't kick her out. Just called to pick her son up early to give his crying a break. If she ended it then according to your contract her deposit is not refundable because she didn't give notice. She is threating and trying to scare you because she wants her money and she has nothing better to do. keep all her email texts and such and DO NOT respond. Stay firm and strong. I would show that email stating she was the one that called and the bribe of the deposit to cas. Keep going strong ur doing great. It will end soon!

WHAT! OMG....Hmmm. ...I wonder if you had given her her money back at the beginning, if this would still have turned into something...just makes me wonder when you mentioned the word "assault"....the re are people out there that have this entitlement about them...people who would try to get a dollar from whomever or whatever.....wonder if she has done anything like this before? I agree with babydom...ignore and stay clear of this person....

I would be tempted to respond simply stating you will forward her email request to the SS worker and your lawyer and await their response as to your next action.

Nothing more...just enough to show you can play the same game. DO NOT get into any back and forth, any restating of the past or ANYTHING. Simply respond that you cannot give her an answer now until you speak with legal representation. Her next response should show whether you need to take action or if it is over. I suspect she will respond letting you know you called her bluff and it is over.

This is a desperate persons desperate last attempt to get her way. Do not give her anything to use against you, meaning do not speak without a witness and save all written conversations.

I would forward the email to the social worker, too. Print it off and add it to the DCM contract. Its very important to document everything when it comes to having difficult clients like this.


Its very upsetting to be put in this situation, hope everything works out for you.

My name is Sofia Palacio. she ended the contract so I iwll have better chance to win in court as I feel I did not do any wrong doingt. I will update as new informations come looks like this will be my first case in court with daycare problem.

Good luck!!! :)

I would be surprised if she does bring it to court as it sounds like she is angry about the money but document everything as the others have suggested and wait to see if she will bring it any further or not- hopefully just all words but be prepared either way

ok everybody, last night the cops showed up to my home wanting to speak to me about the situation..ironicall y yesterday when she send me that email I told everybody about I decide to reply to the email and I state" I will not refund the money and I will document this email " (thank you for the wise words) she immideatly send the cops I spoke to the cops and they also said they do not see any wrong doing. I show the police officer the email she sent me and he said that I was being blackmail. he also found it strange that the incident of the child being hurt happen 3 weeks ago and just now she is calling everybody after I said no to refund. I don't think she will bring me to court, I think this was her final try out of spite to do something. but If she does take me to court I now have very good evidence and in the end will help me more than her. she is very spiteful and very mean. I cannot belive it but I don't let it bother me, I have my own kids I am just very shoked

Sent the police under what pretence? Police don't just show up because someone asked them to.

Also how is she blackmailing you? She being a pest but that not blackmail. Strange police would call it blackmail. Strange police offer a legal opinion too.

I am so sorry you are going through this...what kind of person does this?!
You have done nothing wrong, and have nothing to fear. Remain the professional you are, and focus on all the positives in your life and karma will find her.

what you mean what pretence? I don't understand. she called the police officer because she said her child was hurt here and when a report is made I think the police must come. when i was speaking to the police officer i said this is blackmail and he said yes he nod his head.
Thanks to every body here I have hope this will end soon

blackmail because she said if she pays her she would drop the charges...if she wouldn't pay her she was taking her to court.

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Originally Posted by Hape*

what you mean what pretence? I don't understand. she called the police officer because she said her child was hurt here and when a report is made I think the police must come. when i was speaking to the police officer i said this is blackmail and he said yes he nod his head.
Thanks to every body here I have hope this will end soon

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I mean that when someone go to police ask for their help, they have to give a reason. Police not come for some matters, only where they think crime committed. They not tend to rush round for incident someone took long time to report. So I wonder what pretend reason she give to police for them to act.

Pretend reason = Pretence. That is correct word, yes?

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Originally Posted by torontokids

blackmail because she said if she pays her she would drop the charges...if she wouldn't pay her she was taking her to court.

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But that not blackmail. If day care parent not pay me, I would take to court. And I would tell them that is what I will do. That not blackmail but statement of fact. If the parent believe she is owed the deposit, saying she will take to court if not paid, not blackmail. She just being clear that is the direction she will go if not satisfied with outcome.

I not saying that she is right or have case but her saying that if she not get her deposit back, she will sue, is not blackmail.

I think it is blackmail because she intends to pursue the alleged abuse with social services/court unless the deposit is refunded. That is absolutely blackmail "if you don't refund my deposit, I will accuse you of abusing children".

I think the lesson here is to have your contract policies written out explicitly. So there is no misinterpretation, the deposit I am paid is always NON-REFUNDABLE under any circumstances. It can only be used towards the last days of care. I also go on to say that should a parent decide for any reason to terminate care immediately without notice, they will lose their deposit.

Does your contract say these things specifically? If it doesn't I would honestly give her the money back...if for no other reason due to Tammy's case. She followed policy by the book and got screwed over big time because the Child protection act was interpreted the way the judge wanted to because there was a hint of vagueness over what justifies a person being in a position to make that decision...okay so it was wrong and bogus, I'm not disputing that, but what I am saying is that if you have left anything in your contract about this specific policy with deposit and refund, even simply omitting that it's not refundable, you could be screwed. Parent doesn't sound like they have a leg to stand on, but we all know that the law doesn't always work the way it should and for the same of a few hundred dollars at most, I wouldn't put myself in a position to have my family and business destroyed with all the trouble this person could bring about. I do think you should fight because this woman shouldn't be allowed to get away with making such absurd accusations, but if your policies are not precise and absolutely crystal clear, then I probably wouldn't because weighing up the risks...for a few hundred bucks it really wouldn't be worth taking the risk. At the very least I would be talking to a lawyer about this...not a police officer or colleague or friend, someone who knows the law, and can see all of the documented facts and tell you realistically what the outlook is.

been her bought the tee shirt. here in ottawa, just so you know once cas has been called, even if it is unfounded, you will still have it on file. that was the part that really pissed me off. it was the exact situation as you. hugs and what ever you do, do feel like you have done something wrong. For months afterwards I was riddled with guilt at having put my children and husband through this.

She is a bully and a terrible person. Do not cave to her. Stay strong.

Yes, stay strong, even the Police agreed with you that this is not right, and she was using them to frighten you to give the money back and then we will forget everything, she is a bully like SillyGirl said- hugs to you