Licensed Daycares ???

I am pretty new to the daycare world and I just opened my daycare. I run it privately so I am not licensed. I called WeeWatch to get more information about being licensed and I am most fell off my chair when they told me the rates. Their pitch was we find you clients and we pay you every two weeks. I said great what are your fees? She said we don't fees. So I told her do I keep my current fees or what. She proceeded to tell me that they charge their fees so I would get paid 28 dollars a day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!! Are you joking I have never heard of any provider in my area charging 28 per day. The average charge 35-40!!!

How is this allowed and how is that fair to the provider to get paid so low and then have additional costs!

Well....you just learned your first lesson about why we're all unlicensed :)

Agencies like the one you mentioned are absolute crap. Actually, that might be inaccurate....thievi ng, lying crap....that sounds right. For profit agencies, in general, are more about the money than the quality. I was, briefly, collecting stories from agency providers regarding their experiences. I read stories that included falsified documents and made up observations, of home visitors sitting down and running through a check list in 5 minutes without so much as a walk through followed by a cup of coffee and asking for advice on raising their own children. I spoke to one woman who was told that she didn't have to claim her income because it was considered charity. What???? I was in one agency approved home what smelled strongly of cigarettes and weed, had no toys and was dirty/in disrepair. Providers were often forewarned of an upcoming Ministry inspection so they could be prepared. It simply isn't in a For Profit agency's best interest to shut down poor providers...so they often don't. Unfortunately, good providers often don't get what they need or what's promised. It just isn't a good system.


They are an absolute rip off. Of course, there are some franchises which I'm sure are fine. But just the fact that they CAN be like this is enough for me to steer clear. Even with Bill 10, there's STILL more chance of making a living as an ICP.

That is terrible! I honestly had no clue it was that bad. She literally lied and said they don't have a fee and laughed when I asked that MEANWHILE they take the difference from the 28 dollars and say it's for 'licensing fees"!!!!!!!!!

I am so shocked by this and what upsets me even more is that people are brainwashed to think its better to be licensed. I told her my family eats organic food and we do a lot of juicing/smoothies so in order for me to do that I need to at least charge 900 per month! Not to mention I am a certified Waldrof teacher so there is no way in hell I would work for 28 a day!! I couldn't even buy organic food for myself for 28 a day lol!!! Crazyness

LOL....yeah, she's talking semantics here. Perhaps they aren't charging YOU fees directly, but they are skimming it off the top from the client fees. They do have to pay the home visitors, so the money has to come from somewhere, but I'd argue that they probably don't need to take that much.

Yep, the licensing myth is alive and well. I'm not sure how closely you followed all the bill 10 stuff, but here's an interesting tidbit for you: The Auditor General's Report found that the licensed sector had 29000 serious incidents last year, including lost children, abuse, serious injuries, fires and 6 deaths. SIX DEATHS! They hold 22% of the market and had 6 infant deaths. Unlicensed holds 78% of the market and also had 6 deaths. That means that a child is ACTUALLY 2.3 times more likely to die in licensed care. Interesting that no one heard about these deaths, isn't it? Liz Sandals chalked up the other serious incidents to the toaster setting off smoke alarms and injuries warranting a bandaid. The report clearly states what constitutes serious injuries.....it ain't gonna be fixed with a band aid! And then throw in agencies like the one you've discussed and it's enough to boil my blood.

It boils my blood for you guys and I'm in BC

The part of agencies which burns me the most are the implied falsehoods they put out there. First, the agency is licensed. The provider is not. They claim they are, but it simply isn't true. This implies that these providers are somehow more qualified that an unregulated provider when in actual fact, many times, this is not the case. An agency can provide their pseudo license to someone with a background in coal mining or running a fishing boat....they do NOT need to have experience with children or the educational background even remotely related to childcare or child development. BUT, the implication is there. The implication is that they are actually licensed. They just aren't. It frustrates me to no end that parents believe agencies such as WW are always offering superior care. The do not, but the implication is there and the government stands by it. And what kills me is that there are thousands of people out there who still wonder why so many of us remain unlicensed. They don't realize that in order to get this license, which doesn't denote any actual ability, education or experience, we have to sacrifice 30% of our income and live well below the poverty line, at the mercy of an agency's competence at even finding clients for us. Of course, I've done lots of educating in this area through CICPO, but man.....there are just sooooo many people who know nothing about the system and our government just isn't forthcoming with accurate information.

Sigh....time for a glass of wine.

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Originally Posted by Van

It boils my blood for you guys and I'm in BC

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This is my thoughts almost exactly, except I'm in MB. This forum has really made me appreciate independent licensing.

My impression, from what I have seen and heard but have no basis to say it is accurate, is that the agencies are for the home daycare providers that cannot find clients themselves. Whether it be their location, their house, their work background, lack of experience or what ever they just can't find clients of their own.

The families that use the agency, in my impression, are families that cannot maintain care in a unlicensed dayhome (have been terminated due to behavior of child or parent) and those that need the government subsidies and thereby need to use the licensed system.

I DO NOT feel that licenced is better care, better quality, better learning, better nurturing or better in any way. I don't doubt there are some great providers that are licensed. But from what I have seen I think the well experienced/education providers that offer a solid day home are wiser and go unlicensed because it makes no sense to let an agency profit $10-15 a day per child when they are not doing any of the work. It makes no sense. I have had numerous families ask me why I wasn't licensed they were under the understanding licensed was better. When I explained Ontario's licensing process they all thought it was absurd and commented they would never do it themselves that it just did not make sense.

Superfun, we would kill for independent licensing and have pretty much begged for it. We even had members in standing committee (the few individuals who speak before all members regarding a bill....the last plea for changes). Nope...flat refusal. With the Liberals having majority government, all they had to do was say NOPE, and so it was. In reality, there is no money. Ontario is in a financial mess due to Liberal spending and we're on the cusp of bankruptcy....or so I understand. They will not put any money into childcare. Agencies exist and offer a good enough solution, in their minds. The agency sector also were the policy writers, interestingly enough. The whole thing stinks to high heaven. Enjoy your independent licensing and know that here in Ontario, we'd love to be in your shoes.

Lee Bee is likely right. Newbies who aren't familiar with the business may take some comfort in going with an agency. Unfortunately, with for profit agencies, they often find that they never have enough clients to make a living. So far as parents go, we are slowly educating them on how the system actually works. No one knows as there's nothing out there, but us, to inform them. We've been trying, but, as we're discovering, many of the media outlets are politically affiliated and influenced. Forget the Toronto Star...Liberal. CBC....nope...Libera l...although my interview with Lucy Lopez bordered on ok toward us. Most of the time, we are completely misrepresented. But, on the upside, at least we have a media and political presence now. We even have a seat in the Regulatory Committee meetings, which the Montessori sector was quite envious of. They've also been adversely affected by Bill 10.

I will note that one somewhat intelligent lady at the licencing place I called when I was first opening offered me great advice. Don't use a licensing agency lol. I had 3 spots filled (with parents paying me $55 a day) and was looking into them to see how it would work if I used them to fill the other 2 places. She said if I have already signed on parents willing to pay me that much then it would be foolish to use them instead of just finding more families on my own (her words may have been a bit more diplomatic). I filled those spaces quickly after, and wouldn't have used them even if she tried to get me signed up. But, it was surprising to head that from her...it was as if they had no interest in signing on home daycares that can find their own clients at a higher cost. Sketchy.

I actually had the opportunity to meet with an advisory team for the province regarding accessible childcare for everyone. They kept coming back to agencies, and everyone assured them we did not want to go that route!