Cooperative Agency - ONTARIO

Several weeks ago, CICPO approached the Ministry of Education with the idea of a Cooperative Agency for Ontario ICPs. They listened and have put together a smaller working group to discuss the potential of this model. Included in the group are members of CICPO, CCPRN, Municipalities and Agencies. Our first meeting is August 20th!

There will be a video released soon (CICPO and Megan Elford - welcometothezoo.ca ) outlining what this model will look like and offer a bit of a comparative to other agency models. I will post as soon as available. Basically, the model we're proposing would cost ICPs somewhere between $750-$1000/yr (tax deductible) to be affiliated, which is thousands of dollars lower than the current agency model. While allowing ICPs to retain their autonomy (selecting own clients, setting fees, creating contracts, etc), the agency will provide ongoing professional development, support and mentoring. In addition, where applicable, there would be inclusion in a registry pairing children with special needs with ICPs with specialized expertise and education in these areas. The registry will be the first of its kind.

With Universal Child Care a very real possibility in the future, the Cooperative would allow ICPs the licensing they require to continue to participate in the childcare industry unencumbered as well as allow us the 6th child and the ability to apply to the ministry for waiving the 2 under 2 (special circumstances). Basically, we'd get everything agency providers do, but with a lot less hassle and expense.

We need feedback from ICPs across the province that we can incorporate into our briefing with the Ministry on Aug 20th. The main question we need answered will come out with the video in a short survey. So please, mull this new information over, talk about it with your friends, clients, etc and keep an eye out for the video and survey. It would be truly wonderful if we could get this off the ground for providers all over the province!

This is such a great idea, I am really excited to see this come to fruition. Please let me know if there is any way I can support the CICPO in their efforts! :)

I will RedRiverELC! We're all very excited about it and look forward to seeing this work out. My computer hasn't stopped pinging since I posted this morning! We need lots of people to talk about this, share info and, once prepared, to fill out the short survey.

YAY! This is fantastic news! I'm an independent childcare provider. I've never had problem filling my spaces or doing the administration myself so I've never had a need for signing up with an agency. I did explore the option when I started out but they wanted to pay me significantly less than the going rate but charge the parents even more, that's a high price tag for admin so it didn't make sense to me. The only real set back for me is that I can't take in subsidized children because I'm unlicensed, I've had to turn away families that wanted me personally to care for their most prized possessions. I would much prefer this option, I could still cut out the middle man and have the freedom to run my home daycare the same way I have been for the last 6 years.

Glad you think so lauramartin! Yes, our price tag is much lower! What I like most about this set up is that it's going to be run by an organization that fully supports us..that has fought for us. Well...essentially, it IS us :) I love that we would hold the same 'license' as any agency provider, be able to take on subsidies, obtain the oversight that will satisfy the Ministry and still be able to run our businesses in our unique and vastly varying styles.

Thanks for starting this. This is exactly the sort of thing I've been looking for. Always wanted to have the option of being licensed but didn't like financial and operational restrictions that the current agency model imposes. And based on discussions I've had with fellow independent care providers alot of people feel the same way. This has the potential to be very successful once word gets out.

Would we beable to accept subsidy families?

Yes, BlueRose. All providers under the cooperative agency we're proposing would be held to the same licensing standards and privileges as a provider from any agency out there. We will be able to accept subsidized families, apply for a 6th child, apply to waive the 2 under 2 (special circumstances). Anything they can do, we can do (better...hehehe)! This WILL be an agency, but it will be a cooperative...run by ICPs for ICPs. Less fees and services we need and want, not a bunch of others we have no interest in.

In order to make this happen we need one regulatory change - Currently, the inspector to home daycare ratio is 1:25 with monthly home visits. We want to get that changed to 1:100 with quarterly inspections. We have research behind this and solid arguments. But we also need to have the support of ICPs everywhere in the province to show that this is what we want. The Ministry is aware of what we are looking for and added us to this working group with other agencies knowing our numbers. They are listening. They want us to come to the table with a viable option. This is it...we have a really good shot here.

I'm not in Ontario, so this doesn't apply to me. But I did want to say that sounds like a great option. It sounds awful dealing with the agencies in your province. :)

I'm sorry but I have a question, being new to the home daycare world. Why would any icp want to join an agency? With all the fees we have to pay and they pay us less then if we do it on our own, why wouldn't we want to do it on own? I get that if a provider can't fill spots or are just starting out they can benefit from an agency helping them find clients and such. I guess I'm asking if a provider is well off, always full spots on what they want to charge what is the incentive in joining an agency? I see it as they will take money for fees and if they provide a child I'll make less on that client then if it was private. Plus I find the inspections invasive. I have nothing to hide and my parents are always welcomed whenever but they can disprubt a day or routine. I've also heard horror stories of being shut down because a paring knife was left on the counter while serving snack.
Sorry this is long.....I guess Im trying to understand why everyone seems so excited about joining an agency....what am I missing? :)

Babydom, that's a good question. This is going to be long...sorry...

Until now, most ICPs felt the same way. Since the birth of Bill 10 (CCEYA), the landscape of childcare has changed dramatically in Ontario. Our ratio restrictions are tighter and our professionalism has been held to major scrutiny. While all of us would love to continue on as we always have, and of course are still free to do under the new legislation, there may be some benefits to belonging to an agency. BUT, we're suggesting a Cooperative Agency which is a different model than the ones we're currently familiar with.

Typically, agencies charge a certain fee to clients and deduct a portion from what goes to the provider under their license. Most agencies dictate what the fees will be, provide a contract and take over different parts of the business that a provider in our circumstances is already doing for herself. The lost wages of the provider go toward running the agency - home visitors, contracts, admin costs, etc. There is no cap on what percentage an agency can withhold. For someone starting out in the business, an agency can help them obtain clients to get the business off the ground. Agencies can offer the use of equipment, craft supplies, mentoring and ongoing support in the home daycare setting. For someone starting out in the business, this can certainly be a useful tool. BUT, not all agencies are created equal. There is a vast degree of variance in the level of quality from agency to agency, region to region. A major complaint that most ICPs have about joining an agency, aside from the massive loss in wages, is the loss of autonomy and individuality. Currently, agencies generally cost a provider approximately 30% of her income. Now, they are coming up with new models which are decidedly better than what's currently available, but they could still be better. Andrew Fleck is currently putting information out for a pilot project including a pay per use service, for those who don't require all the current model offers (equipment, contracts, sourcing clients, chasing payments, etc). They project an annual expense for providers of anywhere between $1450 and $4000.

With our Cooperative, the cost of running the agency would be covered by the annual fee of between $750-$1000 membership fee. We will offer ongoing access to resource materials and support, inclusion in a parent searchable directory matching special needs kids with providers with specific training and expertise, workshops/professional development. Most of all, providers retain their autonomy and run their businesses their way. Set your own fees, write your contracts, pick your clients, set your menus and curriculum. The inspections are unavoidable. We are seeking to have quarterly inspections instead of monthly.

The other issue that is encouraging us to push this idea is the idea of Universal Child Care ($15/day childcare) that the NDP government wants to bring in. In fact, it is Mulcair's main platform for the upcoming, Federal Election in October....and so far, he's in the lead. In addition, the Liberals voted in favour of it provincially....and they're socialist, so I would imagine it's not a stretch to see this happening. This is a very real possibility and we can see, in Ontario for sure, that they are setting up for this. They are closing schools in Toronto with partial enrollment, merging them with other schools. The empty buildings have been earmarked for massive daycare centres. There is a massive push for UCC and the campaign has gained tremendous momentum. ALL the childcare sectors (except us) are pushing for it. The Canadian Childcare Federation has a huge stake in this and has really been advocating for it. They also have government funding. You can imagine what UCC will do to the independent sector. With joining an agency, ICPs will have the licensing status they require to participate in UCC.

So...there you go. Why join our agency? In a nutshell - It's ICPs running it. You get to continue to run your business your way. You keep more of your income (a LOT more). You have licensed status to satisfy UCC requirements. You can take subsidy families. You can apply for a 6th if you wish. Workshops. Support. Professional appearance (we are all professional, but the media ruined reputations last year). The list goes on.....

This is why I continually come in here and leave posts about CICPO. We've been following this and have been actively involved in Bill 10 since its conception. We've got a good, political foothold and are involved in the regulatory process. It is going to effect everyone in here...everyone. UCC is in the hopper now, too. This is a big, big issue and childcare is at the forefront of the next federal election. We're hoping, that with enough support from ICPs, we can make an affordable and flexible option available to ICPs across the province.

I think this is amazing! It is such a thoughtful and kind reaction to what Bill 10 has given us. There is a lot of work on the path ahead & I think this is a perfect step in the right direction.
I love that this is for ICPs by ICPs, there is a lot of wisdom, strength and integrity in our industry, who better to represent us than ourselves?
I'm very happy to hear this :)

I've debated writing this post for a couple of days. I don't want to sound ignorant or come across in a negative way. I'm just starting out in the daycare world but I have been doing research about running a home daycare for about a year and half to fully prepare myself. Most of you will have a lot more experience in the field than I do and maybe that is why I'm not fully understanding what the excitement is about. I suppose my biggest issue with this Co-operative Agency is the cost of it. Yes, it will be lower than the current agency model but $750-$1000 annually is still a pretty hefty fee. During my previous career, it was mandatory to pay an annual fee of $130 to the professional association in order to maintain professional certification status. Many of my colleagues even had a problem with paying that amount. I know that I cannot compare two different professions, I am just a little surprised that the previous posts sound enthusiastic and easily willing to pay the agency fee. With it being a different agency model, allowing us to retain autonomy, why would the fee even be that much? If we will continue to do most of the work ourselves, what exactly are we paying for? I understand that part of the cost will go towards support and mentoring, etc., but if ICP's have been doing well this long on their own, do many really feel they need the support and mentoring of an agency? I also understand that part of the cost will go towards the inspections. I agree with Babydom saying the inspections sound invasive. If it comes down to it and there is no way around the inspections, of course I will oblige. However, I must say that I am not starting my own business out of my own home to have someone else (an inspector) breathing down my neck. I believe the parents are best at regulating us. With quarterly inspections, what would that really help to have an inspector come every few months? The parents are at the daycare twice daily and can tell if their child is happy and in good hands. Many parents now have no problem sending their children to an ICP. If parents want a licensed provider, then they already have that option out there. With the co-operative agency, it was said that we will get to keep "more" of our income. Well, I want to be able to keep all of my income. This profession isn't exactly something that allows us to rake in the dough. Paying the agency fee means less income of course, as well as less money available to go back into my daycare program. With the CCEYA already affecting a lot of provider's income (mine included), why would I want to take another $750-$1000 off my annual income?

I do agree that having a registry to pair children with special needs with certain providers would be a good idea, as well as allowing us to take subsidized children. I don't think it is a necessity though.

With UCC being a very real possibility, I understand that there may be no way around this co-operative agency. I know that joining the agency (should it come to fruition) may be the only way to stay afloat if UCC does in fact get implemented. At that time, I feel the decision will be to either pay the agency fee or close up. Of course, I will pay the agency fee but I will not like feeling like I was forced into it. I understand the agency would have no control over whether or not UCC comes into effect. At this time, I feel that having UCC would be the only real reason to join the co-operative agency - to stay in business. If, by chance, UCC doesn't come to light, I don't really see the benefit of joining the agency. Maybe someone can change my mind?!

If I am forced into paying the agency fee in order to stay in business, I feel like I will be paying $750-$1000 a year just to be able to stay home and take care of my own children. After all, that is the main reason I am choosing to run a home daycare.

You aren't saying anything that we haven't been saying for the past 18 months. We'd all love for the industry to allow us to carry on as we were. Unfortunately, the industry is in the midst of lots of big changes. It is clear to us that the Ministry is making concerted efforts to push ICP care right out of the market. And frankly, they've got a decent chance at doing that. Thanks to a few bad providers, the Ministry not doing its job properly and a concerted effort to destroy our image in the media, the view of ICP care has changed dramatically across the province. I"m seeing it on parent sites and in my own interviews, news articles and general conversation. People do want oversight and the desire for that is growing, regardless of what we know to be true about our exemplary safety record.

If UCC comes in...well...I think you can see what's going to happen. Unfortunately, waiting until UCC is here to get the agency up and running is too late. We have the Ministry's ear now. They've set up a working group with other childcare players to discuss this. This is our shot. Our goal is to get enough feed back now to show the desire of the ICP community to have another, affordable licensing option available to them. We're not forcing anyone to join. We're asking if this is something you're interested in. Even with UCC, the choice to join is yours. But if we can't even get it off the ground then that's one choice you don't have. This is a professional organization that will certainly give ICPs a much better image in the future. Aside from being able to continue in the event of UCC, we'll be held to the same standards and with the same respect as all other sectors of the industry.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm confident that many of us feel the same way: If we don't make strides to keep up with and adapt to a changing industry, we may just go the way of the Dodo. It's easier to stay put and keep the status quo, but I'm not sure it's in our best interests.

The other team leads and I have been very active politically and socially with Bill 10 and now getting set up for UCC. We've seen an awful lot that not everyone is privy to. Heidi continues to attend meetings with various officials and high ranking members of all facets of the childcare community in an effort to make sure there's still room for us at the end of the game. Not many know about or see what goes on behind CICPO, but I think you'd all be pretty impressed to see how far these women have pushed to help our sector. I'm in absolute awe of them. No one is trying to make a buck. No one is trying to steer anyone into anything detrimental. It is to help. That's it.

Thank you for the information cfred. What I'm asking, is maybe for a more detailed breakdown of exactly where my annual fee would be going? I understand it's only in the works now, so maybe a question for a later time. I'm not behind the scenes, so I'm unaware of the costs involved in running the agency. I definitely don't think anyone is just trying to make a buck. I do believe a solution is trying to be found for us. I just wonder if the price has to be so high in order to show that we are making an effort and wanting to look professional.

I understand we won't be forced to join. But if it comes to light, joining sounds like the only option. If there becomes an agency for ICP's, parents will definitely wonder why any ICP doesn't belong to the agency and of course will go for one that does. I'm not completely opposed to joining, just seems like a high price. What if we feel that we don't need the support/mentoring, resources, etc.? How much of the annual fee goes towards the inspections, and what else is our membership fee going towards exactly?

I've asked around and heard some conflicting information about UCC. Some say there will only be a certain number of UCC spaces available. Do we know if this is true? If it is, once the spaces are full, won't parents have to go with an ICP whether we are licensed or not?

Yes, it is a bit early for a complete breakdown. Everything is still at the conceptual stages now. Our meeting on Aug 20th is our first step in making sure we can even do this. The Ministry is interested in what we have to bring to the table, so that's a good sign. Agencies are also stepping into action and creating better plans....though they're still more expensive than what we're proposing. So far a what your fees would go to pay for; home inspections, workshops, licensing and all the admin that goes along with it, etc. The Cooperative will be, of course, non-profit.

While we would love to create a Cooperative that is tailored to each individual, the cost would be considerable and the logistics a major roadblock. I am speaking from my own viewpoint and based on many conversations with other providers regarding what they'd like to see in a Cooperative. Workshops and resources were definitely a big one. I cannot speak for everyone, but a great many of us want opportunities to enhance our skills and learn a few new ones. We want to keep up with best standards practices. Even for the provider who doesn't wish these things, $750-$1000 is really not a big price tag, particularly in comparison to other agency models. Of course the option to not affiliate is always there, as you know. But you do raise a valid point: If a province wide Cooperative was in place offering affordable licensing to ICPs, I'm sure that will factor into some families' selection of childcare. I can only speculate, but as a parent myself, I can see that being an issue.

You are correct. Mulcair is promising 1000 000 spaces across Canada for now. It's a reasonable assumption that, if he wins, that is a jumping off point. But I don't know. Even if that is it, those spaces will be coveted and clients will be quicker to leave should one open up. I don't really know how that will play out. We know Ontario can't afford UCC on its own (the Quebec system), but who knows how deep the federal pockets are.

I wish I could answer your questions more definitively. CICPO is currently setting up its Board of Directors for the Cooperative, on which I have just begun. I only took this role on last week, so am still learning as, like most others, I had no idea what was going on behind the scenes. It's a bit of a learning curve!

The survey isn't meant to commit anyone to anything. It's a conduit for information. All we want to know is whether providers are interested in a Cooperative - do you all think it's a good idea? Given the changing industry climate and the uncertainty, is this an option you would appreciate having in the future? It's important to think ahead to the 'what ifs' and beyond just today and the immediate future. Should Canada ever adopt a system like Sweden (as an example), would you value having an entity like ours in place? We need the information to back our numbers and research in our meeting on Aug 20th. An opportunity like this is unlikely to come along again.