Opening in a new Province

Hi ladies,

I have successfully run a home childcare centre in Ontario for four years. I never struggled with enrollment/payment/deposits.
We recently moved to PEI and I reopened my centre in April. I am having a horrible time with enrollment! I have two part-time children enrolled and one is leaving in January as her mom is a seasonal worker.

The mention of deposits turns most people away, however I've been screwed over three times already by saving a spot and the parents opt out (don't go back to work, get a spot within a centre that an older sibling is at/ do not want to pay a deposit). It frustrates me that parents do not want to pay a deposit, because this is my job and I am holding their spot (one person wanted a spot in 2017, but didn't want to pay a deposit).

I have top notch advertising with a private parent facebook group and public group where I share pictures of meals, activities etc. I serve mostly organic, whole food meals, which is a complete reverse of the centres here (French fries, icecream, cookies etc). I am at a loss of what to do.

I know its a close knit community and the island is not always welcoming to people "from away". I've had numerous people trying to add me on facebook so they can see more of my personal profile, which I do not do. I am highly professional and although everyone needs to know everything about you if your from away, I have professional boundaries.

Has anyone experienced similar issues? Do you have advice for alternative advertising or ways to enhance enrollment?

I forgot to add, I have 18 years experience in the field, some of which through public health programming for parents and infants. I also have a professional website for parents.

I think Suzie Homemaker is from PEI and she mentioned a group of providers she connects with. I'm sure she'll have insight into what works in your new neighbourhood.

Where in PEI are you?

Island life even Atlantic life very different that other provinces. PEI has lot seasonal worker and lot shift worker.

I not hold place unless deposit and contract and I not hold for more than couple week but they get deposit back on last week of care. If you charge non-returnable fee, I can see that not working - small communities all about trust, but even so, they forget that when they change mind. For the parent wanting 2017 care, I would not asked for deposit because you not going to hold empty spot until 2017! You going to fill spots and maybe if one empty when she need it, then you call her. I would just take information and add to wait list. I can see she not want pay deposit in 2015 for 2017 place. At moment, you are outsider and so, they will want know all about you. This why they want add you on FB personal and see you account.

I say always be wary of child with older sibling in centre. Parent want children together. I make no logic to drop off in two place before going to work. Normally, if they have child in centre but come to dayhome their centre not take children until 18 month so they seeing if you can be stop gap. They really looking for cheap babysitter because they see centre as real daycare and dayhome as pretend so they not want pay same money while waiting for baby to be right age.

For many service worker in PEI, it about word of mouth. Not always word about your service, but word about you personally and being trustworthy and it take time to prove your worth.

I not do ice-cream either or package food. People do want healthy food for their child but they not prepared to pay extra for it.

We have group providers in my area and it work well. Check your area for buy and sell group if no local dayhome group. Lot provider use these for ads. You could set up FB group locally and then watch Kijiji for other provider ads and message them, explain you trying to set up group of providers for local support each other and see if they respond. Some will, some won't, others will ask their friend if they know who you are, where from before adding you. It take time.

Allow full year to fill places. Nothing happen fast here.

Best approach here is friendly, drop by and see daycare space, chat about what you do. If you approach interview as formal process, they will be wary. Time to get formal, is when they say they want come and you send contract for signing. Until then, overly formal, will scare lot of people away.

I not saying not to have process and contract - I do - but I saying relaxed approach is best otherwise they feel you might be too stuffy.

I live on PEI for 30 year now, I still considered outsider.

Thanks Suzie. I'm not in PEI but I always love your thorough, well thought responses :-)

I thinking more about you last night.

I lucky that we lived here before opened dayhome. You coming in cold and unknown person, trying open dayhome. Get involved in community! Get your face known. Church group, school event, go to social event locally like fundraiser, church supper.

If you in bigger town like Charlottetown, you have denser population and it not so bad. If in small community like Tignish, you have to establish yourself as known person. When less than 1000 people in your town, or live on edge of Island with no traffic driving through your location get to work, that reduce client pool.

Huge amount children in smaller communities looked after by friend and neighbor. Competition much bigger than maybe realize. Can have up to 5 children including your own, in unregulated day home but no more than 2 under age 2. If you have 3 under 2 years, then you only allowed those 3. I have 5 based on small home. If you regulated, then can have more. I think it 7 for regulated dayhome, including own, and no more than 3 under age 2.

Because unregulated care allowed, many people know someone who be home who can watch their child. There always at least one person in community who is the go-to person when mat leave end. Many time, these stay home parent, who viewing it as taking in other children, and so it more casual arrangement. Few contract, few deposit, very flexible with late pick up without financial penalty. It really is someone to watch children when parent work and child picked up when parent get there. If this is type location you in, then the best advertising is not going help if you unknown. Parent not going pick stranger from internet when they can ask friend, neighbor, and really get inside information on what local carer like from first hand knowledge. Advertising only help once established to spread work you have opening.

If you in North Rustico/Cavendish area, employment for many is tourist season in Summer. Lot people on EI over winter (unless snow plow driver). Typically young person staff many tourist area but these often the young parent who need care. These tend prefer the more casual arrangement because when tourist gone, so is work, and they not able to pay care until open again in Summer if they not have winter work. Or these area tend be high turnover daycare because child need removing when tourist season end.

To run dayhome in smaller community, and have formal contract, you must be known. It take time to prove you worth the money, you doing more than less formal people, especially if you not regulated carer. Even regulated carer not have to provide food for children and it okay for child bring food from home. But if you are provide food, then there are rules about what you can serve and the Canada Food Guideline. I think where you say provider in you area give fries, ice-cream and cookie, this mean they likely unregulated carer too because it not in line with rules for regulated carer providing food.

Where you located? Borden is good area because people go to mainland to work sometime and drive back over bridge at night. Bridge is open when sometime ferry is closed so Borden have more potential client than Wood Island area where ferry is. Bridge is good location because then it local community plus all people travelling from other place on island to get to mainland.
How big your town?
Is there daycare centre in town? How many?
What is price for your town's daycare centre?
Is centre open longer hours than you?
Does centre provide food or not?
Does centre charge enrollment fee or deposit?


These important to know if you trying operate "professionally" because these who you compete with.

Is there lot regulated dayhome in your area?
Do they charge deposit?
What their fees?
Do they provide food or child bring from home?
Do they hold place?
Is there lot unregulated dayhome in your area?
What are they charging?
Do they charge for day attend - most not charge for days child sick, on vacation or with grandma.

You need to find out what parent in your area paying, what they getting for their money, what hours are covered, if rotation shift worker only paying for day attended.

If people in small community are used to going to known person, who everyone knows and trust, paying $20 a day, with meals (even if not very healthy), no charge for non-attendance, then it will take time before they come to stranger, who no one know, pay $35, pay for day enrolled even if don't come, who has shorted hour. Even more unlikely if centre close by charging same rate and parent not have potential issue of carer sick or on vacation.

The smaller your community, the tougher it will be.

What your area like in Winter?

Lot Islander go to mainland once month for Costco supplies but in Winter, some area have to time this around weather. Not possible to always say on 3rd weekend every month we going for bigger supply shop because more remote the community mean if snow storm come that weekend, you maybe not getting out of town until main route plowed out.

If you in one of these remote areas, your location to client is critical. For people used to bigger town living on mainland, it easy to forget that even though it not take long to drive across whole PEI in summer, when it winter that whole new situation.

Thank you, Suzie!

I am in Summerside and have two local Facebook groups. One for advertising and one closed for parents. I advertise in all the local childcare/buy and sell and daycare groups.

I have done 6 tours where parents spend over an hour chatting, I am not formal, but I follow a professional process and I am not changing that because I am running a business. I've never had a parent feel uncomfortable here, mostly they will spend an hour plus and say they were just checking it out and already have a provider. I find people are nosey because I am new, not because they're necessarily looking for childcare. I will not be bending the rules for adding strangers or families to my personal Facebook page. I practice professional boundaries and feel it's invasive for people to be that nosey. I believe we can still be friendly and welcoming without people having a backstage pass to our personal lives.

The deposit goes towards their first weeks of care, so I am not just keeping a large sum of money. I would be holding this spot for 2017, as I am having a baby in March an this mother was well aware of that. I personally do not think it's overboard to ask for a deposit, when thy are reserving me for over a year.

I agree with the older sibling issue. I am loosing a child due to this in January. Mom I always looking for free days or me to hold her spot without pay while she waits for her contract. I am a half an hour away from her other child's daycare and now that she's old enough she will
Be switching.

I charge the same amount as local centres and I feel it's worth it. I only take 3-4 children, they all have individualized attention, structured programming by age and development,
I do not charge for holidays, my holidays etc. I can confidently say I am ran like a larger centre without the numbers.

I think some of is forget we are running a business and not jut making a few extra bucks on the side. I would never change the quality of my process, invasion of privacy or services because I move provinces. My response may sound stuffy, but I am in no way stuffy. Islanders make the assumption I am stuffy because I am from Ontario and then assume I am from Toronto and think I am better then them. It's not the case. I do not see a problem with getting to know someone the old fashion way, rather than stifling through their private info (not that I have anything to hide).

Suzie,

The centres I was referring to in my area are large regulated centres. My child went to the best ones in the community and they were fed french fries, icecream and ketchup on everything.

I've lived in the community before and worked for a large organization through public health. I do know people in the community and a lot of young mothers, as that's who I worked with.
Unfortunately, I cannot volunteer my time to local events or the school. My husband works long hours and I do not have a support system to help with my other children.

Yes, I believe there are a lot of unregulated homes providing care, but it's not fair to compare our services. I agree people look for the cheapest form of care no matter what our children are eating/doing. However, when a provider is putting in the extra time to program care, provide your child a stimulating environment through crafts, sensory activities, music and movement and healthy meals that do not involve KD, you shouldn't be charging $20 a day like the providers that do nothing and do not invest in their childcare.

I do charge for their sick days. Again this is my job and they're taking up a spot. You pay for sick days at a centre and you would at professionally run private homes. I charge $30/day and that's exactly what centres charge. There are quite a few centres in the area, all of which are full, unless they're undesirable. Some parents prefer the structure, but not the craziness of a centre. They want their child safe and hugged throughout the day, not crying amoungest a large number of children.
I am advertising to a certain market and that may be part of the problem. I do not want to attract future families that are using me for the bridge between daycare or temporary employment.

Could you change your Facebook privacy setting? If they can't search for you, then they can't try to add you. Try to make your personal facebook almost invisible.

I understand - and I not saying you should change your way. I just saying that it will be harder to establish daycare because of the historic mindset of islander and explain why.

I agree it not overboard ask for deposit - I do - but if no one agree or willing to pay it, it not matter if you and I think it reasonable requirement, if your community not in agreement, it not going to happen, until you have proven reputation, especial if you only one with deposit it in your area. This why I suggest it key to know what your competition doing. When you know what others do and charge, it easier to explain why your fee different because you know what in your service is different. But you have to explain it in way not to belittle lower fee provider and their service because chance are, they have connection to other person and not like implication of friend or family providing lower service.

I agree it not far to compare the casual $20 day people to others but again, it not matter what you and I think, if your community has 20 people charging $20 day and that's what the market value is seemed to be. It take time to educate people about differences and even then, some not really care. That their choice as the parent.

I charge $35 a day. I charge based on day registered not attend. I charge deposit that go toward last week of care. I charge 10 personal day each year. I charge for all stat and public holiday and closed. I not take short term client and I do much what you want do. I take 5 client children. I have private daycare page for document, photo, activity plan, and I have public page for general public too.

But my point is this not happen overnight. Whether or not I like it, people want know me, people want proven track record, some people would never pay my fee.

I just trying explain to you what challenges might be - I not saying you wrong want to do things way you want do them. Since you have wide network of young parent, lived here before and know what island life is like, offer more than centres - then you have to assess why you finding hard to fill places - and that might mean either some bending toward parent expectation. My husband would say - Do you want to be right or do you want vacancy fill? It fine to have standard, policies, boundaries, expectation, but if your business model is such you have no customer, maybe time to see if you are fitting your market. That all I mean.

I think Suzie is right. What is your goal here.

Are you looking to be full or are you looking to stand by the policies you have in your last province? If you want to fill up quickly then you will need to adapt to the local ways. It doesn't how right you are in requesting a deposit if this is not the norm for your new area then you will struggle to find families willing to pay a deposit. If your local area is all accustomed to easy, unhealthy food then most likely won't pay extra for healthier meals. Some will, but it will mean long time to fill up.

So, do you NEED to be full NOW? If so, adjust your ways...build that reputation of being a home daycare parents trust then make the changes you want to get back to how you ran in your old province.

It is MUCH easier to justify to parents that you want a deposit if you have been full and are filling a future spot then if you are new and empty.

It sucks...but it is the reality of your new area.
If you do not need to be full right away then just wait it out.

Lady who want care in 2017 is never going pay deposit. I think even in big city in other province, few provider would expect. Fact you pregnant and hold space is not parent issue. Person looking for care more than 12 month away, with option of centre near by, is really just looking at options. They not know if child healthy, if they going back work, or anything at this time.

Would you pay deposit to anyone for something you might want in 2017? I not think so.

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Originally Posted by Suzie_Homemaker

I understand - and I not saying you should change your way. I just saying that it will be harder to establish daycare because of the historic mindset of islander and explain why.

I agree it not overboard ask for deposit - I do - but if no one agree or willing to pay it, it not matter if you and I think it reasonable requirement, if your community not in agreement, it not going to happen, until you have proven reputation, especial if you only one with deposit it in your area. This why I suggest it key to know what your competition doing. When you know what others do and charge, it easier to explain why your fee different because you know what in your service is different. But you have to explain it in way not to belittle lower fee provider and their service because chance are, they have connection to other person and not like implication of friend or family providing lower service.

I agree it not far to compare the casual $20 day people to others but again, it not matter what you and I think, if your community has 20 people charging $20 day and that's what the market value is seemed to be. It take time to educate people about differences and even then, some not really care. That their choice as the parent.

I charge $35 a day. I charge based on day registered not attend. I charge deposit that go toward last week of care. I charge 10 personal day each year. I charge for all stat and public holiday and closed. I not take short term client and I do much what you want do. I take 5 client children. I have private daycare page for document, photo, activity plan, and I have public page for general public too.

But my point is this not happen overnight. Whether or not I like it, people want know me, people want proven track record, some people would never pay my fee.

I just trying explain to you what challenges might be - I not saying you wrong want to do things way you want do them. Since you have wide network of young parent, lived here before and know what island life is like, offer more than centres - then you have to assess why you finding hard to fill places - and that might mean either some bending toward parent expectation. My husband would say - Do you want to be right or do you want vacancy fill? It fine to have standard, policies, boundaries, expectation, but if your business model is such you have no customer, maybe time to see if you are fitting your market. That all I mean.

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Thank you, Suzie!

I appreciate all of your feedback and completely agree :)
I think I am a bit defensive, because in my personal experience there has been a lack of professionalism and boundaries here. The excuse is always "they're islanders and it's laid back". Don't get me wrong, I love it here and have amazing friends from the island, but I also feel that's a blunt statement for the island.

I really do want to increase my enrollement, but I guess what I was trying to say, I will not sacrifice quality, boundaries or substantial income to be competitive. I know my name has been passed around a few times for care, but to part-timers.
I will have to wait and ride it out :)

Do you mind me asking what part of the island your in?

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Originally Posted by Suzie_Homemaker

Lady who want care in 2017 is never going pay deposit. I think even in big city in other province, few provider would expect. Fact you pregnant and hold space is not parent issue. Person looking for care more than 12 month away, with option of centre near by, is really just looking at options. They not know if child healthy, if they going back work, or anything at this time.
Would you pay deposit to anyone for something you might want in 2017? I not think so.

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Yes, I would. It's quite common in other provinces for private and centre care. Infant spots are hard to come by. If you want a say as to the environment your infant is in, you pay a deposit. Why would someone hold a spot only for you to change your mind and then the caregiver ends up with no one?

I held spots with a two week deposit consistently since 2009 and it has never been a problem. It's an expectation of the parent. People in Ontario are wait listed when pregnant or with a young infant.

I am not asking for a deposit from every family, as stated I only enforced it for the family who wants to hold a spot for a year.

As stated in my comments, the policies I am referring to are boundaries and not adding people to my personal Facebook, which again isn't a rule that needs to be bent.

I am not charging more because I provide healthy meals, I was stating what I was providing for care. I charge $30/day, which is five dollars cheaper than a centre for under two.

My opinion of full is three children, I do not go to the mass,. So I am looking to be full for me, not for the provincial ratio.

Just to add, I haven't made mention of a deposit to any of the parents in PEI except this lady and I've lowered my price by $20/day to be competitive in this area. I have no idea what other providers charge in this area, other than the ones that advertise. These people are not comparable to me because they're looking at making a few extra bucks and not proving group childcare. That's what I was trying to get across.

Lot parent come to carer through word mouth. When new this not tool you have available. If limited people experienced your care, only way to check you out is come for tour. It like going to open house viewing when not planning to move. Sometimes it nice to be nosy and see what that high priced home is like inside even if it not in our budget. When we get inside and see it lovely home and everything we wish for, it does not mean we able or willing to buy it.

If you charge more than other dayhome near you, then have to accept it not in everyone budget. It not matter that they can see your service is better, food better, program better - if it outside their budget they can't afford.

Not every family with child is potential client. This true for all us. Some of family already have carer they love so it only family who not have carer or not happy with carer who potential client. Our location, hours, policy, fees, personality, all remove people from the potential client's. If they think us more expensive, less flexible, that also take people away. This is fine when you have big client pool available and small number of space to fill. But when you have only handful client left in client pool, it is problem.

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Originally Posted by superfun

Could you change your Facebook privacy setting? If they can't search for you, then they can't try to add you. Try to make your personal facebook almost invisible.

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I thought I did :(
I am not sure what else I can change. You literally can only see my profile picture if it comes up in a search. I believe this is why I've had a lot of attempted adds so they can see more of my profile. I've even had a mom ask me what my name was on Facebook so she could look me up and where my husband is employed.

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Originally Posted by islander

Thank you, Suzie!

I appreciate all of your feedback and completely agree :)
I think I am a bit defensive, because in my personal experience there has been a lack of professionalism and boundaries here. The excuse is always "they're islanders and it's laid back". Don't get me wrong, I love it here and have amazing friends from the island, but I also feel that's a blunt statement for the island.

I really do want to increase my enrollement, but I guess what I was trying to say, I will not sacrifice quality, boundaries or substantial income to be competitive. I know my name has been passed around a few times for care, but to part-timers.
I will have to wait and ride it out :)

Do you mind me asking what part of the island your in?

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There will always be lack of boundaries in smaller communities but don't confuse lack of formal process as always being lack of professionalism. It not that people islanders and laid back is blunt statement - it reality that we rely on each other so friendship extended to all and for non business owners it can seem overly formal having paperwork trail for our friends and neighbors. It very blurred line so easy for people confuse formal process as offhandness.

I am in Kings county.

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Originally Posted by islander

Why would someone hold a spot only for you to change your mind and then the caregiver ends up with no one?

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The flip side this is why would someone hold a spot for whole year if service good as they claim they would expect fill much sooner and not lose whole year income.

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People in Ontario are wait listed when pregnant or with a young infant.

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Not here but I am in small community. Here people start looking about 2 weeks before they want start. That said, we know who had baby lately, they know who offer care.

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Originally Posted by Suzie_Homemaker

The flip side this is why would someone hold a spot for whole year if service good as they claim they would expect fill much sooner and not lose whole year income.


Not here but I am in small community. Here people start looking about 2 weeks before they want start. That said, we know who had baby lately, they know who offer care.

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Well as stated, one of those spots I was holding because I am due to have a baby in March. She and anyone else inquiring about childcare knows I m having a baby and do not keep at full capacity.

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Originally Posted by islander

Well as stated, one of those spots I was holding because I am due to have a baby in March. She and anyone else inquiring about childcare knows I m having a baby and do not keep at full capacity.

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Have you consider maybe expecting own baby is deterring people? Maybe people think you might not open after or that they not want you as carer if you going be closed on mat leave and they need find new daycare.

Maybe other ladies who have child when running dayhome might know more about if it affect signing client during pregnancy?

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Originally Posted by Suzie_Homemaker

Have you consider maybe expecting own baby is deterring people? Maybe people think you might not open after or that they not want you as carer if you going be closed on mat leave and they need find new daycare.

Maybe other ladies who have child when running dayhome might know more about if it affect signing client during pregnancy?

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They're aware of this when they contact me. I am only takiñg two weeks off and will have a registered nurse as my helper the first few months.