Ministry Visit for Unlicensed daycare (no report)

I have already called the ministrey of education to varify this vist apparently its a new thing they are doing, but wantedto kow if any other providers have experienced the same.

Im from Ontarioand have five kids including my own two. Also only have 2 under 2. But the other week I was grabbing lunch from my upstairs stve and heard a knoc nthe front door ianswerd it and much tomy surprise the ministry was there to ask ifi a
Had a daycare on the premises. They showed me id nd letme know r
That no I have not had any complaints filed agaist me but they were taking providers information that advertized online (this is the only site that I have listings on currently) andgoing outto inform them of the new regulations regarding Bill 10. They asked what ages were of the children in my care and came in to do a head count.

Has anyone else experinced this?

Not yet. But yes they are doing random visits more and more.

Yes, I've heard of the surprise visits this year. What area are you from jupadia?

I'm from North York area of Toronto.

I was very surprised to see them but had no issues. The o ly thing that I had missed in yhe new bill 10 stuff. Was to have in writing and signed by the daycare patents that I am unlicensed. I did get a letter after their vist saying g to do this (they let me know as well) and to email or mail them a letter letting them know that I had complied. I also now added it to my contract for any future parents. I phoned the ministry directly after the vist yo make sure it was not some kind a scam or something. They also let me know before they came in that they were not their to hand out fines but to inform providers of the new bill. But who's to say what they would hzve done if I had not had the correct number of children.

We have this in PEI too. Agency affiliated homes referred to in Community Services documents as "regulated" but we have regs for private homes too. They can come in anytime and check we in compliance. It little annoying as the terminology they use suggests private is not regulated but that far from truth.
I have no issue with the come here. I just wish they would not imply private = unregulated.

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Originally Posted by jupadia

I'm from North York area of Toronto.

I was very surprised to see them but had no issues. The o ly thing that I had missed in yhe new bill 10 stuff. Was to have in writing and signed by the daycare patents that I am unlicensed. I did get a letter after their vist saying g to do this (they let me know as well) and to email or mail them a letter letting them know that I had complied. I also now added it to my contract for any future parents. I phoned the ministry directly after the vist yo make sure it was not some kind a scam or something. They also let me know before they came in that they were not their to hand out fines but to inform providers of the new bill. But who's to say what they would hzve done if I had not had the correct number of children.

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I'm in Newmarket....maybe 30 mins from you. I've not heard of any visits up this way as yet, or in your area for that matter. Guess I should have my stuff at the ready for a pop in. It's bound to happen eventually.

A provider I know in Kingston was visited. She said they had a long list of providers to visit while there and that they'd come from Toronto. They also admitted to using Kijiji and other online advertising to suss out providers.

What I don't understand.....if they're making the rounds and checking in anyway, why can't they afford to give independent licencing and oversight, like other provinces? Why the need for agencies?

That was my thought as well. Instead of having to spend the money on the manpower to look on the Internet for private unlicensed daycare provides then send someone out to random homes. Have us register and then come to us.

I'm in Ontario for unlicensed daycares they don't normally come and vist unless a complaint has been filed. It's why we are unlicensed. I had no problems with them stopping by its just the firdt I heard of it.

Hi, I'm sorry to heard you were surprised. We do not like surprised but it happens. I'm used to this surprise visits. I just make it work on my own benefit. First they leave you a letter with a check mark showing that you are "COMPLIANT " so, even better for me I post that letter at the entrance of my daycare so, parents are reassured.

It is funny to tell this but, since I got licensed through an agency that supposedly doesn't belong to my neighbourhood, the agencies in my neighbourhood keep reporting me. I'm always out with my six kids so. They know me aND they also knew that I was working privately for many years. Now they just assume that I'm doing it illegally. The big surprise is for them. I'm licensed :D
I'm sure they're wondering how and with which agency.

I just let the ministry reps. Come in and look around count heads, I usually show my playroom, bathrooms, closets etc. They leave satisfied and I stay in peace. Way before a training I had I used to think, that everything should be in order all should be perfect. But, working with children it is impossible so, the ministry visitors know that. Could be visits during lunch time or snack time or bathroom time, nothing out of this world. So, I just take my time be friendly and it goes fast. The children also over act but it is all part of our work. Do not stress out, it is all part of what we do.

How do they get all your info, address etc from KIJIJI?

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Originally Posted by cfred

I'm in Newmarket....maybe 30 mins from you. I've not heard of any visits up this way as yet, or in your area for that matter. Guess I should have my stuff at the ready for a pop in. It's bound to happen eventually.

A provider I know in Kingston was visited. She said they had a long list of providers to visit while there and that they'd come from Toronto. They also admitted to using Kijiji and other online advertising to suss out providers.

What I don't understand.....if they're making the rounds and checking in anyway, why can't they afford to give independent licencing and oversight, like other provinces? Why the need for agencies?

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I might be wrong but I think it is less liability for the Ministry. If they had a registry or licensing us independent ly then the Ministry will have to be responsible for each one of us. And doing this surprise visits at least I guess they want to show that they do their "job" but not being liable for all of us. It is kind of hard to answer. Other provinces are licensed individually and it seems it works but the advocacy for better child care is also complaining about that system and they want to change it. I've seen few proposals and it is not looking good also for these providers.

You're absolutely right. Risk management is a huge issue. We spent a great deal of time during 2 of the 4 meetings I attended discussing risk management. In fact, that was pretty much the ONLY think Marnie Flaherty continued on about. It's very frustrating! I can say that the vision for daycare, so far as the Ministry and advocates are concerned, is pretty cookie cutter....and it's all super, super risk free to the point that it's sucking the quality out of any programming. This whole emergent curriculum is wonderful, but just so long as the kids are nicely bubble wrapped. How much valuable learning are children missing out on at the expense of risk management? I visited some schools in New Zealand. What a difference! A very non-litigious environment breeds a lot more freedom in the classroom, preschool and otherwise.

Another thing that frustrated me to no end.....We have fewer serious occurrences, period. It was pointed out to me that they ONLY reason the licenced sector had so many serious occurrences in the AG report was because ICPs don't have to report anything. However, it would be interesting to find out how many of us have 'lost' children. I never have, nor has any ICP I've ever known. And their infant death rate was certainly huge compared to ours. And the AG stated that the incidents cited in the report were actually serious, not run of the mill nuisances. So I'm not sure why risk management is so much more a concern for home daycares, with the lowest group size in the industry, opposed to large centres. It's an odd way of thinking, to me. If anything, I would think, with oversight, we'd be the safest option out there.

I'm curious, is it their infant death reports in licensed Homedaycares or licensed centres? Or is it a general report?

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Originally Posted by Peacefulbird

I'm curious, is it their infant death reports in licensed Homedaycares or licensed centres? Or is it a general report?

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It was a general report. You can look it up online - 2014 Auditor General's Report. It broke down 27,000 serious occurrences into categories for death, missing children, abuse, serious injuries, fire, etc. There is no mention of unregulated care in the document. We got our information from the coroner's office. Both the licenced sector and unlicenced sector had 6 infant deaths each. The licenced sector holds 22% of the market while unlicenced holds 78%, making the licenced sector's infant mortality rate much higher than the unregulated sector's.

It is sad, that even in this reports they generalize. Of the six deaths in our sector ("unlicensed" or private home daycares), so far as I know two deaths were in illegal care. One with 27 or 25 children in a home and another one here in Ottawa Orleans, in a situation that two caregivers decided to get together and host a large number of kids (also illegal).

I do not understand why they will associate that with us. They have to categorize differently ex. Licensed, unlicensed (compliant with the regulations five children offering safe environments) and illegal (absolutely non compliant, unsafe, overnumbered, underground, etc)

They have ways to find it. Same as the police when there are scams. Or other illegal activities. Even when you file your taxes. One way or another they will find it.

[QUOTE=Peacefulbird;8 5211]They have ways to find it. Same as the police when there are scams. Or other illegal activities. Even when you file your taxes. One way or another they will find it. "That's how they can find caregivers addresses, or advertising on kijiji"

The death of Jeremy Odette (in Orleans) was awful! That gathering wasn't illegal at the time, but is now...though certainly common sense could have prevailed and prevented the tragedy. I believe, of the 6 deaths in 'Independent' care, only one was with a legal, compliant provider and was ruled accidental. The coroner's office doesn't release information regarding cause of death.

Regarding the MOE- they associate with us to a degree. We're still attending Advisory Committee meetings. We were able to pull together those meetings to pitch our Cooperative idea, ultimately resulting in the 1 home visitor to 25 home daycares cap removed. Agencies can now introduce new, more attractive packages to providers. We feel very good about that change and it only happened because t made sense financially to the MOE. We want a registry and that's on the table at the moment (casually), but it won't be through the MOE. It's ALL about money and risk management. They want to fully remove themselves from anything unlicenced. The licenced care advocates are pushing hard for a national framework, which, if we don't get busy, will not include us.

That survey I put out, needs to go out to more people. This this is consultation that should have happened via the MOE. If you haven't provided it to your clients/friends/family, please do....and have them send it out to their friends/family/colleagues. The numbers are very much in our favour, so far, but I really need more submissions to make it credible for the media, government, etc. I hate sending them out. I know they're a pain in the arse and aren't well received in this forum, but if we don't advocate for ourselves, no one will and the unlicenced sector will eventually be strangled. I'd love for all of us to be included in a national framework. I do believe this is the superior form of childcare and really don't want to see thousands of small business owners pushed out of the market.

https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/5MKY26M

I'm not sure if it was illegal, but 31 children and six adults in a home? Since I have been operating almost 20 years now. I knew it was allowed only five children and our own, per household. In any circumstances, we have been organizing play dates but 31 children? Where was their common sense? And now we are all paying for this kind of negligence.

I will pass along the survey. Thank you Cfred it is really appreciated all your hard work for us.

It was legal, but very reckless. There was no common sense at play in that situation. I can understand what they were trying to do, but they should all have known better. After Jeremy died, there was a big push for change, of which the result was the current regulation prohibiting play dates on private property.

Thanks for passing on the survey! I'll be starting the report next week, probably, and will post in here when finished. I'm happy to do this...most of the time, lol. I think it's important to defend our underappreciated, but very important, profession. I've learned a tonne about politics and gotten to know some very cool women (exec committee) through the process. I was so flattered when they flew/drove in from all corners of the province to attend my wedding reception this summer. It was very special :)