Would you ever contact another provider for information?

I received an e-mail this evening inquiring about daycare and was suspicious of it. The e-mail address looked familiar to me so I looked back into my folders, I keep all e-mails just in case, and imagine what I found! An e-mail a month and a half ago from the same exact e-mail address signed with a different name as well as completely different information on the child they are looking to put in care. Curious about this I put the e-mail address into google and it is listed in an ad for a home daycare in my area.


My question is have you/would you ever contact another provider pretending to be a parent searching for care?

It is actually very common to do that. One of the reasons is that it is actually illegal for providers to get together and discuss fees because it can mistrued as price fixing. We were warned about that from our association. For sure the child they need care for the second time would fall into a different age bracket right - as in first might have been under 18 months so an infant space and this one was for a toddler or preschooler as in they are trying to set their rates for each group.

The first e-mail for a 14 month old and the second was for a 2 year old. It surprised me I guess because it never crossed my mind to reply to another providers ad.

I have never done it by email just phone but that was back before caller ID, lol, and email didn't exist.

I have done it. BUT, I have only done it for two reasons:

1. I suspect it is someone who interviewed with ME and took my contract. It turned out my suspicions were correct and I warned the woman that using my contract was copyright infringement, not to mention, very unprofessional to have lied to me and wasted my time.

2. If I suspect this is a warehouser.

I have never done it, but I have had it done to me. It's dishonest, and I don't condone it. I have no problem with other providers looking at my site for pricing etc, as they are not deliberately misleading me.

When it was done to me, I was desperate to sign another family, and the person who contacted me acted like they were ready to interview. I found it sneaky and to be honest, kinda mean. The person wasn't even smart enough to change her name.

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Originally Posted by Alphaghetti

I have never done it, but I have had it done to me. It's dishonest, and I don't condone it. I have no problem with other providers looking at my site for pricing etc, as they are not deliberately misleading me.

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I agree. It IS sneaky and dishonest. But, would you condone it if you were highly suspect it was a warehouser or someone otherwise operating illegally? I say this because a few providers I know knew of someone who had THIRTEEN kids in her care (only 5 allowed in Ontario) and she left them with her 14 year old son to care for while she routinely went running errands. Eventually someone called on her and we got her shut down. Now, for THAT reason I do NOT think it is deceitful but more like detective work to keep our profession professional.

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When it was done to me, I was desperate to sign another family, and the person who contacted me acted like they were ready to interview. I found it sneaky and to be honest, kinda mean. The person wasn't even smart enough to change her name.

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I also agree. And the biggest kicker to me is that I will willingly help ANY provider if they had just called me up and asked. They didn't need to be sneaky.

I have been contacted by another day home provider asking my 2-3-4 days and full time care fees? I immediately suspect and checked her on facebook she wasn't there and then checked one of the head hunter web site online. There she was! She herself was a provider and she was doing this for almost two years. Anyway, I told her how much I charge for those days. And then she responded me immediately asking for to justify my prices like what I'm offering and what is it special in my day home etc? I then asked her, "are you enquiring as a fellow day home provider or as a parent"( I wanted to let her know that I know she has a day home too:))? And then she said "actually i have a day home too but I want to place my son to another day home so he will get over his separation anxiety? What the hell. Most of us here do this job so that they can stay at home with their kids and this lady is ....? She probably is in this board too.

Anyway, needless to say I said "NEXT" :))) I think I would like it if they ask me straight without sneaking. I'm sure there will be people who won't help. One might not help but I'm sure the second one would.

No I have never done that nor do I think I ever would.
I did check other people's ads when I was starting to see what they were offering and the pricing etc....and occassionally I will look up other daycares to see if they have pictures and what their set up is like etc....but beyond that I can't imagine why you would need to go 'undercover' for info.
I see other providers at the park and at early years and if I have a question I sometimes will ask them or else I come on the forum to get feedback. Beyond that I am not sure why people would do that.
Sometimes I find that other providers are too nosy with me. They will ask me all about my set up, rates, number of children, MY ADDRESS (WTH?) and how much I paid for certain things, what I serve for lunch and snacks etc. I don't mind sharing the info most of the time but sometimes I do get the REALLY nosy ones like the one who asks me about my house size, address, etc and I know she wants to do a driveby and check me out and look me up. Those are kind of annoying but whatever floats their boat I guess.

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Originally Posted by Judy Trickett

I agree. It IS sneaky and dishonest. But, would you condone it if you were highly suspect it was a warehouser or someone otherwise operating illegally?

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Most definitely.

I have contacted another provider for information, however, I was completely honest about who I was and where I was coming from. I told her I was a new provider and that I had heard of her "through the grape vine" from other people in the neighbourhood- she has a reputation of being an excellent provider. We have actually talked quite a few times since then back and forth. I would have not issues doing it again or having someone contact me AS LONG as they are honest and up front.

This is news to me that it is illegal to talk with other providers about fees! I talked to many providers in my area about fees before setting mine and never thought twice about it. They were open to discussing it as they get upset with people coming on the scene with much lower fees.

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Originally Posted by playfelt

It is actually very common to do that. One of the reasons is that it is actually illegal for providers to get together and discuss fees because it can mistrued as price fixing. We were warned about that from our association. For sure the child they need care for the second time would fall into a different age bracket right - as in first might have been under 18 months so an infant space and this one was for a toddler or preschooler as in they are trying to set their rates for each group.

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I'll admit to being nosy - I LOVE seeing other provider's set ups, we can all use a 'freshen up' from time to time and you never know what ideas someone else's daycare might spark for you. When I was doing 'orientation' when I was first licensed we were required to spend the morning in 2 different home daycares. I have to say that was the best thing they could have done for me. I got to see a home daycare in action and ask any questions that came to mind and I got real answers. I have become very close friends with one of the providers I visited 11 years ago and we still talk daily.
That being said; I would never contact another provider under false pretenses and I'd be pissed if someone did that to me. Don't waste my time. I'd be happy to talk to you about opening your home daycare, in fact I think it should be mandatory for new providers to visit experienced providers. If this would prevent even 1 daycare injury/case of neglect/abuse it's worth it.
I have people email me with questions often when I have a dc space posted on kijiji.
Actually I find that after I post on kijiji a few ads look awfully similar :glare:

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Originally Posted by kangaroomama

This is news to me that it is illegal to talk with other providers about fees! I talked to many providers in my area about fees before setting mine and never thought twice about it. They were open to discussing it as they get upset with people coming on the scene with much lower fees.

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I know. It's stupid. Yeah, tell me that most of those big grocery store conglomerates or the big box stores don't get together somehow. Seriously, how often do you see a store flyer from two unrelated stores and the same stuff is on sale? How come Home Depot and Lowes have the same items on sale within pennies of each other's price?? Like it or not that IS price fixing. The only difference between home daycare providers and home improvement stores is that the competition can walk IN TO each other's stores and just look on the shelf to see what their competition is charging for a door handle or a hammer.

It's stupid and I willingly talk fees with any provider who wants to.

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Originally Posted by VictoriaChildCare

.........in fact I think it should be mandatory for new providers to visit experienced providers. If this would prevent even 1 daycare injury/case of neglect/abuse it's worth it.

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Statistically, most kids who are abused or die from purposeful acts on the part of the provider, come from homes with "experienced" older providers who have been in business years.

It isn't illegal to discuss fees but you have to be careful that out of that discussion doesn't come the price-fixing which is illegal. If for example a group of caregivers in an area got together and discussed their daycares and decided you know I think we could get more for our services - if we all charged teh same amount parents would just have to pay it. That is the part that is illegal - why they were investigating price fixing at the gas pumps, etc. It seems silly but we do come under some of the same rules as major corporations, etc.

Indirectly we do the same on our own by checking out the ads of other caregivers to find out what the "going rates" are in our area and generally set our rates at the same as everyone else. But that is ok - it is just the I can't talk to you and together we agree to set our rates at a certain amount - limiting competition. We were warned that there is such a fine line that it is better to leave fees out of as many discussions as possible.

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Originally Posted by playfelt

It isn't illegal to discuss fees but you have to be careful that out of that discussion doesn't come the price-fixing which is illegal. If for example a group of caregivers in an area got together and discussed their daycares and decided you know I think we could get more for our services - if we all charged teh same amount parents would just have to pay it. That is the part that is illegal - why they were investigating price fixing at the gas pumps, etc. It seems silly but we do come under some of the same rules as major corporations, etc.

Indirectly we do the same on our own by checking out the ads of other caregivers to find out what the "going rates" are in our area and generally set our rates at the same as everyone else. But that is ok - it is just the I can't talk to you and together we agree to set our rates at a certain amount - limiting competition. We were warned that there is such a fine line that it is better to leave fees out of as many discussions as possible.

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Ah, don't you know already that I live in the grey area of life?!:yes:

Well, this is all new to me, but I suppose I at least understand where the rule came from. I think it is very important for new providers to find out what other providers are charging though so that they can set appropriate and fair rates and not undersell themselves or bring down the fees of everyone else (although I don't condone the sneaky methods the original poster was talking about...I have never and would never do that). Daycare centres are surely privvy to what the rates of other centres are when they set their fees (or raise their fees) as are agencies. I don't see why we shouldn't have the right to the same information.

I keep all my emails and notes from interviews in a book too so I can refer back if anything looks suspicious, like a family who jumps from daycare to daycare. Have you ever had an interview and something tells you that the woman is pumping you for intormation so they can open their own dayare? Now I find that sneaky.

That is one of the reasons I won't interview a mother without the child. I did have one mom come a few years ago who had set up appointments to gether info from several daycares as a way of ruling out the ones she didn't want and then once she had narrowed it down to 5 she was going to bring hubby and child for a second interview. I just didn't like her attitude at the interview so didn't allow her to come for the return interview.

I have had a potential daycare provider ask to come over during the day to sort of observe and decide if she was as committed to it as she thought. I let her come because I knew her but not sure I would let a stranger do that. Would totally depend on how they got my name.

I had a mother from down the road put her child in my care one day a week. The next week I found a day home ad with her number on it. I emailed her from an email she wouldn't know about and she sent me all of her information. She sent me my paperwork, with a few things changed. I printed out her ad and emails. I put it in her file. I was shocked when she showed up on her scheduled day with her child!!! I let her know why I was shocked and she denied everything....right until I showed her the emails and ad. She still tried to back peddle some before I told her to leave with her child. She left crying and I did not reimburse her any paid fees.

Actually I have had a situation where a caregiver that was with an agency put her own child with me for 3 months using a space I had open due to maternity leave because she was able to take another agency infant. Once her own child turned 2 she took him back and that was fine because I knew upfront what the plan and reasons were. It was in her best interest to do that since it had been a long time since the agency had any children to place and she didn't want to go to the bottom of the wait list for the sake of 3 months.

I also know of caregivers that have put their own child into a dayhome 1-2 days a week as a way of getting them ready for school and separating from the parent, learning to follow directions from another adult, make more friends, etc. so it is more common than you might think.

Bottom line, for me... be HONEST!! If you are a fellow provider, I will probably answer most, if not all of your questions. We are in this biz together!
But if you feed me some bull-poop, and I find out.... Not cool. :mad:
PS> I have found that I can find enough info online, by browsing other ads and sites of providers, that I have never gone "phishing" for info. If I needed to, I would contact them directly and be upfront. In fact, when I was opening up initially, I had a friend who also did childcare answer a number of my questions/concerns. That was, of course, before I found you lovely gals, LoL.