Potty training woes.

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Originally Posted by bright sparks

I personally think diapers and pull ups are problematic in training. If a child is ready to train, they are also smart enough to know that they are wearing a diaper. I see the inconsistency as permission to pee in the diaper because they know they can. I agree no naked children at daycare, but underwear should be fine if the kid is pretty well toilet trained at home. There likely wouldn't be to many accidents. As for pooping on the carpet, this is another requirement on my list that tells me a child is ready to train. There needs to be regularity in bowel movements. Once they have this, it's easier to predict when they will go and be prepared. BM is usually a tricky stage of training for a lot of kids, but if they are regular it's easier, if they are not then likely they have not got the control over their bowels so shouldn't be training. I understand why they are wearing a diaper at your place and like many others it is policy, but I personally think that this is the problem. Doesn't mean that going naked is the answer though. It's just inconsistency does nothing to help with toilet training. I think this is a classic sign of a parent starting too early. This child clearly doesn't have all the verbal skills or the physical ability to be successful and quickly to train. It rarely takes me more than a week to train here. On the occasion it does, it's because of parents undoing my work at home by putting pull ups on, or being lazy quite frankly. I don't care of a parent insists on training before I'm willing to do it. I give them the other option of taking a month of work to train them themselves if they don't like how I do it. You have how much experience with this mother?... I've trained over 30 kids and every time I've had any kind of issue it's because of the parents yet I'm the one left to deal with the mess. It's this first child...rush, rush, rush and second child, baby, baby, baby thing I keep seeing over and over. Lots of first time parents want their child to be first at everything, but hold their second back for longer so they can keep their baby. SIGH!!

I had a parent of one of my 21mth olds email me for my thoughts the other day because her child was taking an interest in them using the toilet at home and it took all my restraint not to speak my mind. You want to toilet train yet you won't stop breast feeding him??? The mind boggles sometimes...Fortunat ely this family like that I offer them guidance and generally take my advice.

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What are your requirements before you put them in underwear to train them? I completely understand how having them in diapers can make them think they can still pee in it etc. But, I've toilet trained about 15 children with the method of sitting them on the potty with each diaper change and in time they just start staying dry inbetween potty breaks and then quickly start communicating the need to go to the potty. It works in a relaxed manner when the child is ready (typically between 2-2.5yrs).

This child is very slow with language (though fully up to speed on all other milestones). She has yet to make any attempt to ask me to go and she has no ability to get her own clothes down to go on her own.

Until she can do one of those consistently it just seems that she isn't ready to be diaperless here with me.

I've asked mom (weeks ago and again yesterday) to work on the communication and the self help skills at home as my working with her on that 3 days a week isn't enough. Mom has decided just to leave the child naked and not work on the other skills...which to me, are essentially for being toilet trained.

While I agree having completely different expectations here and at home do not lead to successful toilet training...the child is not home 24/7 so toilet training needs to be done in a manner that is realistic (not just being naked for the next year until she decides to start communicating).

Bright Sparks how do you manage playing outside (in snowsuits) and outings to the library and playgroup etc? If the child doesn't communicate they need to go then do you just leave them in underwear for outings?

I just don't see a child being able to be truly potty trained if they can't communicate. Sure they can run off to the potty on their own while naked. But if they can't manage their clothing on their own and don't communicate then what do they do?

Anyways...if home starts to put the child in clothing and if the child is still successful then I am more than willing to try it here. But, until I see any attempt at communicating or being able to undress themself then the diapers need to stay on.

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Originally Posted by Lee-Bee

What are your requirements before you put them in underwear to train them? I completely understand how having them in diapers can make them think they can still pee in it etc. But, I've toilet trained about 15 children with the method of sitting them on the potty with each diaper change and in time they just start staying dry inbetween potty breaks and then quickly start communicating the need to go to the potty. It works in a relaxed manner when the child is ready (typically between 2-2.5yrs).

This child is very slow with language (though fully up to speed on all other milestones). She has yet to make any attempt to ask me to go and she has no ability to get her own clothes down to go on her own.

Until she can do one of those consistently it just seems that she isn't ready to be diaperless here with me.

I've asked mom (weeks ago and again yesterday) to work on the communication and the self help skills at home as my working with her on that 3 days a week isn't enough. Mom has decided just to leave the child naked and not work on the other skills...which to me, are essentially for being toilet trained.

While I agree having completely different expectations here and at home do not lead to successful toilet training...the child is not home 24/7 so toilet training needs to be done in a manner that is realistic (not just being naked for the next year until she decides to start communicating).

Bright Sparks how do you manage playing outside (in snowsuits) and outings to the library and playgroup etc? If the child doesn't communicate they need to go then do you just leave them in underwear for outings?

I just don't see a child being able to be truly potty trained if they can't communicate. Sure they can run off to the potty on their own while naked. But if they can't manage their clothing on their own and don't communicate then what do they do?

Anyways...if home starts to put the child in clothing and if the child is still successful then I am more than willing to try it here. But, until I see any attempt at communicating or being able to undress themself then the diapers need to stay on.

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My requirements are the following...

The child needs to be able to communicate their need to toilet. I have multiple copies of a potty book, by gender, that I loan to parents ahead of time and we read it consistently through out the day, everyday for a considerable amount of time prior to training. I have found this most helpful for a child to learn to verbalize their needs and I do a lot of mirroring with the child with the goal being to have them learn to request the potty, go pee or poop. The success of verbalizing varies from child to child, but sometimes they still make a certain grunt or will come to me if they need to go if they are delayed verbally, as they understand that they have to request.

Additionally, the child has to be having regular bowel movements and they must be starting to have dry diapers in between changes regularly, or minimal at the very least. I have a child now who doesn't do a solid bowel movement which is clearly a result of some kind of dietary issue, and while he is nearly two and I wouldn't train him until 2 1/2 unless he was checking all the boxes earlier, I have made it clear to his mother that toilet training is not something I will have any part in with a child who does not have properly formed movements. As far as BM's go too, I request that their diet stays the same as much as possible in the first 4 weeks so the child isn't faced with any unexpected tummy issues.

The child should ideally have the desire to use the potty. I use the books to hype it up too which generally works, and I like it when there is more than 1 training, call me stupid I know, but they have a model to watch and I find they usually train quicker. It's rare that I train only 1 at a time.

I do not require that the child be physically able to pull clothing up and down. I help them if needed, give them lots of encouragement and opportunities to try, but I would not hold back from training just for this. I have had very petite kiddies who just can't manage it and it has come in time. I do stipulate to parents that no zippers, buttons or jeans while training and underwear must fit properly. This helps a lot, but to be honest the first couple weeks they are in underwear so it's easier to just have them try and master underwear up and down first.

As for going out, this is the main problem I have with parents. If I'm going out in the car, I take a potty and a large pop bottle filled with water and disinfectant spray. The child should verbalize their need and I pull over and get the potty out and they pee at the side of the road. Some people may not like that, but honestly I don't care. It works for me and my biggest pet hate is when a parent puts the kid in a diaper for a car ride. The first few weeks of training, we don't go on any trips out, limited to outdoor play only. I also don't train in the winter. It's not really an issue, a child either trains at age 2 or 6 months later at a maximum of 2 1/2. I have 2 turning 2 in February, I wont start training them at the very earliest May, and likely later because they are boys anyway. When we play in the back yard, then underwear is perfect and if I'm training in the summer, then I set up shaded areas under canopies, and we spend almost all our time outside. Makes for clean up after accidents easy.

My biggest obstacle in toilet training is the parents. Starting to early, or not invested in being 100% committed at home. It all just seems to inconvenient for them and then 40-50 hours a week I have to deal with a child who is back peddling. Or when care is shared with a grandparent, that is almost worse because they know better having raised x amount of children and they can't be told anything lol

I'd clear your schedule for a good 2 to 3 weeks, or at least make it so you are able to take a potty with you EVERYWHERE and are in a position to stop instantly to enable the child to use the potty. Get some books and have the child learn to mirror...."What do you say when you need to go potty?" I have found that a child who is ready to train but has some verbal delays usually still train well. If they fully understand, and there is a potty available for them at all times within easy access, if they can't ask then they just go themselves. It can be tricky when out and about if there isn't a potty next to them but they soon learn. I know also that a lot of providers only use the toilet, I don't. Initially I have potties in the room and once potty training is complete, I move onto the toilet. I can not leave the daycare room multiple times in an hour with multiple children training so the potties make things much easier.

I hope this is of some help, but honestly if the parent isn't on board it makes it harder.

Thanks so much Bright Sparks. My main hold up there has been ZERO communication on the child's part...ever. I will get more books and work on it in that manner and making her repeat after me...which will take time.

I sent mom an email and explained that she has 5 days at home starting tomorrow so get her in pants and panties and teach her how to either communicate she needs to go or to get her pants down and go on her own. I explained that being naked isn't an option as it is unsanitary and it just isn't realistic as the child cannot be naked forever and that by being naked all the time she has no need/opportunity to start communicating or doing her own clothes...which means the skill just isn't transferable. I said I need the child doing one or the other (communicating or doing own clothes) for me to start pants and panties here.

I also feel that it was poor timing to have your child start going naked (right at the start of cold weather). I'd have zero problem lugging a potty around in the car BUT again this child doesn't communicate the need (in words/signs or grunts) so going in the car without a diaper is not an option. I also have no problem hanging at the house for a few weeks. Though...again starting in winter when we need snowsuits to go out or it's too cold to be out means longggg weeks inside.

Anyways...we'll see how mom responds. I just feel that we are at a standstill because I only have the child 3 days and can only get so far with teaching her to communicate the need to go if she doesn't need to do that at home because she is naked.

How do you handle children who don't know enough to tell you that they have to go pee, but continually pee on the furniture, carpet, etc. This little guy is almost 3 and he has peed here almost every day for the past few weeks....I have asked the mom that until he knows the concept of going to the washroom, that he be in a pull up and she brings him every day and does not tell me he's in underwear. All this peeing does a number on furniture....how would you handle this...would you leave him in underwear or make him wear a pull up until he knows what he is doing....frustrated part of toilet training.

Marty Monty .... If the kid is peeing on your furniture everyday then don't you think you would check to see that he has a diaper or pull-up on before the parent leaves and if he's in underwear you say" sorry he needs pull-ups ... Take him and go to the store and buy me a package of pull-ups to leave here.... I can not have him peeing on my furniture everyday " and dont let her leave with out the kid cause otherwise she'll just ignore you as she has been doing and head to work .... Really I don't understand how you can allow her to drop him everyday and not check...one puddle on my couch and the kid would be not allowed back without proper supplies

he's been coming in underwear for a couple weeks now, I always check to be sure when they come in to my daycare in the morning....problem is, he is not trained, the parents are....they take him in every 20-30 minutes to pee...well this morning he had just peed about 10 minutes before he soaked through my couch....my issue is, he never said a word about having to go and he's almost 3....I would think he should know at this age, I've trained a whole slew of children and never had one that did not know they had to go by this age....I was just curious for those above that said they don't use diapers or pull ups at all while training, is it not an issue when they pee on the furniture....at 3, they definitely pee like an adult...I have him in a pull up now and messaged the mom that he will have to be in one until HE understands the concept of going to the washroom...I know some kids pick up very quickly, others do not...all part of the job of toilet training little ones....