''Discipline'' the child when parents are there ?

I do agree in part with you too whisper, many parents do it for many diferent reasons, some for the reasons above talked about, I do feel some do chose not to discipline due to the guilt they feel for going off to work everyday, and what has not been mentioned is perhaps the worst of them all, the parent who you defined, the parent who truly feels that IF they discipline their child it send a message to the child that they don't love them....these parents are the kind that do anything in their power to make their child smile and stay happy all day, even when it is at the expense of others including themselves, these are perhaps the worst of all, because they are raising their child to be a selfcentered.."do for me because I am the only one that matters" kinf of person...... that is the one that gets me the most upset! I call it "creating a monster" i always mention gently to these parents that "their child will only be cute for so long" even they will get tired of the behavior at some point, and by them? it will be too late!

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Originally Posted by daycarewhisperer

Naw it's not because they feel guilt. They don't want the child to cry. They like the idea that their child gets to go nuts and act horrible because deep down inside them they wish they could do that too. They are quite comfortable with letting their kid get their bad bahviour on in your house because they pay you and you WILL put up with it or not get the money. They also feel their child should have their way and not be upset at all. Their kid deserves that because he/she is special and they are the child of their parents.

It's a combination of a lot of things but guilt isn't even on the radar.

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I think a lot of parents are like this but please, don't paint every parent with the same brush. Guilt is most definitely on the radar for a lot of people.

if I let every child who hit once go...i don't think I would have any kids left. ha ha! isn't it human nature to learn from mistakes, and isn't it fact that children don't know better, we have to correct the bad and teach the good.

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Originally Posted by kidlove

I do agree in part with you too whisper, many parents do it for many diferent reasons, some for the reasons above talked about, I do feel some do chose not to discipline due to the guilt they feel for going off to work everyday, and what has not been mentioned is perhaps the worst of them all, the parent who you defined, the parent who truly feels that IF they discipline their child it send a message to the child that they don't love them....these parents are the kind that do anything in their power to make their child smile and stay happy all day, even when it is at the expense of others including themselves, these are perhaps the worst of all, because they are raising their child to be a selfcentered.."do for me because I am the only one that matters" kinf of person...... that is the one that gets me the most upset! I call it "creating a monster" i always mention gently to these parents that "their child will only be cute for so long" even they will get tired of the behavior at some point, and by them? it will be too late!

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The people who raise their children like this will have a reason for doing so. It doesn't make it right, but it doesn't mean they can correct all of their behaviours over night. Things to factor in are how they were raised, childhood trauma among many others. A child raised with lots of physical discipline and shaming for example may subconsciously have this fuelling their need to please their child for fear of them feeling the same upset that they did. There is far more involved in how we parent our kids than just being selfish or shallow or doing the easiest most convenient thing and for everyone, don't think for one minute you have a clue what's going on behind closed doors. While it doesn't apply to everyone, there are many parents suffering depression, marriage instabilities, financial issues etc etc and while this isn't a good enough excuse for raising "a monster",it's still a reason. I think there obviously has to be boundaries on how much you do but I feel these parents still deserve compassion and guidance and honesty. Maybe a person doesn't want to hear the truth but its part of the process. Eventually it will click, or maybe it won't but I don't begin to pretend that I know why these people are the way they are with their children but an honest open conversation is definitely a good starting point. Otherwise if you don't want to invest this extra part of you, then terminate. They aren't going to change and your not going to be any help keeping quiet and saying nothing. (This isn't directed at anyone specifically btw)

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Originally Posted by kidlove

if I let every child who hit once go...i don't think I would have any kids left. ha ha! isn't it human nature to learn from mistakes, and isn't it fact that children don't know better, we have to correct the bad and teach the good.

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Exactly!! :):)

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Originally Posted by bright sparks

I am greatful to your contributions to this forum daycarewhisperer and find that quite often you present a different angle through your opinions on different subjects. I am interested in your comment about how if a child hit once that you would no longer accept them into your daycare. I was just wondering why you wouldn't work with a family and child to rectify this behaviour? I understand that you said that it is your need to have a violent free home, but I know that so many children act out physically and it isn't acceptable behaviour under any circumstances but I struggle with the idea of not doing anything about it other than sending them off to somebody else to deal with. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this as I know there has to be a line drawn when enough is enough but surely every child deserves a second chance and speaking for myself as a caregiver, investing my time in these children through good and bad is part of my role in the children's lives.

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It's a process. First the parents contact me and read my website where I have this: We have little behavior issues with our kids. They don't hit, bite, fight, or be mean to each other in any way. The love each other and treat each other with respect and admiration.


During the interviews we talk extensively about it. I let them know that I don't allow ANY violence. I tell them I WILL discipline their child in my home when they are here at drop off or pick up. If the kid is mobile I discipline them during the interview if they do something I don't allow so the parents see that I am VERY comfortable correcting their child in my house.

So the parents of older babies or toddlers know that I don't have violence so if their kid hits, figths, bites they don't hire me.

Next phase is to address the pre-violence behaviors which include any physical resistance, bucking/flailing while in the arms of the adult, pulling/grabbing on clothing, putting their hands to the face of the adult in a clapping motion, bycycle kicking during diaper changes as a resistance or flipping during a diaper change, pulling their hands away when the parent purposely has them clasped, and grabbing at hair. When they start that stuff as infants I address it with the parents and show them the techniques I have to get them to stop it.

I tell the parents THIS is the stuff they do before they start whacking at you... kicking you... pulling hair etc. I work with the parents to stop it at THAT level. With each interaction I have the parents know I mean business.

I say phrases like "I can't have that here" "he can't do that" "I can't have him kicking at me" "I can't have him grabbing my glasses" etc... when they are really little... like seven to twelve months.

By the time they are walking the parent knows the line. They are also talked to about these pre behaviors and I tell them pretty frankly that if the kid does that to THEM at home they need to TELL me so I can nip it in the bud here.

I also watch them from car to door. If the kid starts acting up on my property I open the door and SAY something. I don't let anything slide. I say "stop it", "knock it off", "NO", or whatever to get the kid to know I'm watching and the parent to know I mean it. I don't want my neighbors having to listen to a badly behaved kid a few feet away.

If I see an older baby grabbing at their moms (it's almost always the mom) I SAY something right there "NO johnny... leave it..." and show the parent how to turn the child away from them and put them on ignore or "shun" while we continue to talk.

Bit by bit they get it. The parents don't want bad behavior here and as their child ages they love the fact that they are safe to know they won't get hurt here. Their friends and family who have age mate children are getting hurt at day care and they proudly say their child doesn't act like that and they have NEVER been bit at their day care.

It's a process but it works. :) I'm never afraid to take over and I discipline them right in front of their parents. I let the parents know that I can't manage it and if they want this deal they have to be on the same plan. I've never had a kid raise their hand to me... not once in my 34 year career. They KNOW better from day one. The parents know I not only will not allow it towards me or the kids but I won't allow it between them and their kids under my roof.

One other thing.. is that the discipline/corrections with child and parent are VERY short and quicklike. I say what I have to say and then in a flash... I'm over it. I don't do therapy sessions. I don't do "I'm sorry's". I don't make a big deal of it once I've corrected or said my peace. I just MOVE ON to the next thing and act as if nothing happened. I am a super quick forgiver and I don't make too much out of it.

The parents know over time that I TRULY love love love love love their kids. I love them with every bit of my soul. I would give my life for them. When they really GET that you are coming from a pure heart and not any other place but what is best for yourself, the other kids, my kid, my property, and their kid they have an intrinsic trust. They may not LIKE every correction or redirection but they know for sure that it aint personal and I dig their kid. It's just my ways and the results are excellent.

OMG kidlove - the boy the grocery store -- that is funny. I do that to kids here sometimes. The parents are back at me and I give the 'not happy' look and the 'no no no' gesture to the child. It worked a few times hahaha

Daycarewhisperer, you are like Supernanny Joe, dont worry it is not an insult its a compliment. I love that women, have you ever seen the show ? The British supernanny, not the american one I dont like her.

Supernanny Joe gives all the love and support to parents and she sure knows how to handle the children in a calm matter. I know its television, but I'm sure she's IT !

My handbook states that once the parents arrive, THEY are in charge. But they are expected to enforce MY values and rules, which are pretty clear!! Should a parent choose not to, I absolutely will.
For whatever reason, kids tend to go nuts at pick up. Maybe overstimulation, excitement about seeing mom/dad, a little bit of anger that mom/dad have been gone all day.... I don't know.
And for whatever reason, parents don't tend to discipline the kiddos. Guilt over being away all day, embarassment, maybe it just never happens anyway (the discipline).... I don't know.
But I have told this story once, and I will tell it again. I used to be all casual and let mom/dad deal with all the behaviour. Probably just non-confidence on my part. That ended the day that a 5(!) year old boy KICKED my front door into the wall, because he didn't like what his dad told him they were going to have for supper. No more Miss Nice Lady.
From that point on, if YOU aren't going to show/teach your child, I WILL. As long as they are around me, they will behave in the manner that I expect from them.

[QUOTE=Inspired by Reggio;37132
... I had one child leave my home in the middle of winter with no coat or boots cause she was refusing to get dressed for the mother she NEVER did it again because it was bloody cold outside and she had to ride all the way home COLD. [/QUOTE]

When I had my son in daycare he did this. I went to pick him up, and he threw a fit because he didn't want to put on his winter gear. I gave him ONE warning and when he refused to get dressed again, and went on with his tantrum, I scooped him up and marched right out the door with him. It only happened once.