First post--need some advice on a difficult child--its long...sorry!

Hi all,

I have a situation that I am not sure how to handle. I have talked to my neighbor who suggested termination, however, I don't know if that's the route I need to take.

I have a 5 year old, that started about four weeks ago. He was loud and aggressive his first day. He was rude and bossy and tried to convert all my awesome, great, fantastic kids into little sh*t disturbers. They all thought he was funny, as he was rhyming their names with other things, until they asked him to stop and he wouldn't. Calling one child Stinky Ella, so often that she cried. The first week went terrible, and I sent a long email to the parents outlining the behaviour issues with him. Including his demanding behaviour, dominant personality ( "we are not playing your game, we are playing mine!" "You can't do that when you're pretending to be the Mom!"), competative-ness (such as racing to wash hands and pushing other children down) and an overall loudness, sneakiness, and lack of listening skills. I also said that he has sneaky behaviour as he does things when he thinks I can't see or hear. I have not had to yell since I have been open, 8 months now, until this child started to attend. :(

After this email, the parents called me and discussed for TWO hours how they want to move forward, they are pleased with my care, and patience so far, and they really want me to work with him to make him settle in better. They had issues when he started preschool and those settled with 'firm assertive reinforcement of negative behaviour' and that I should 'parent him as I do my children'. The next week or so was tough but he was making progress. Starting to listen better and I could see him check himself before he started to race. He also quiets down and slows down if I am standing by them, or in the room, as he knows that I will not allow him to behave negatively.

Rules have had to change since he's been here and more toys have had to disappear as he becomes aggressive when specific ones are out. I told my husband, that I have made the commitment to make this work. They are great parents to deal with, its just the child's behaviour that is frustrating. Also, if I give them notice, I have to give four weeks. (this family has read the child care act in my province, and it states four weeks. YES FOUR WEEKS:blink:)

Nearly three more weeks into this and he's still trying my patience. My daughter is frustrated with him and will hide out in her room to get a break. My son is picking up aggressive type behaviors and I am reaching the end of my rope....I have to be on him every second of the day. I have to remind him to call children by their real names, to share toys, to not dominate play. I can't even go to the bathroom as he is 'sneaking' because he thinks I can hear him, by running or taking the toy he wants from a younger child.

If I do terminate care, I will have him until school starts and he's only here every other day full and two hours on the opposite days. I've tried sticker charts, time outs, yelling, loss of privileges. Parents are on board with all of this and are doing same at home.

Suggestions? I feel like I am not sure if I can actually do this.

Terminate. There is no way in HELL I would work with a kid like that. One, YOU deserve to have a pleasant work environment. And two, you have a responsibility to the OTHER kids to offer a safe, calm, fun environment. It is unfair to the OTHER kids to constantly have an aggravating, rude, condescending bully in their face all day. This kid is a liability to your daycare. If I were a parent of one of the other kids and knew how this 5 yr old was I would seriously be pulling MY kid from your care.

He's not worth it. The parents made him this monster and therefore it is on THEM if he gets terminated.

I don't understand how providers allow poor mistakes made by parents to become THEIR daily problems. NOT YOUR KID - NOT YOUR PROBLEM.

Terminate him. It is EASY for the parents to hogwash you and build up your ego and tell you how great you have been thus far. It is quite another thing for them to actually PARENT their own child when he is with them. Because there is NO way this child is just acting this way at daycare or just suddenly decided to act like a 5 yr old demon - this behaviour is years in the making and YOU will not break it because he IS acting like this at home.

You are fighting a lost cause at a huge financial risk to YOUR kids and YOUR family.

The minute he started to effect your sons behaviour would have been the end of it for me. I stayed home to do this to make my kids life better! Not to have to re train them because another kids has brought poor behaviour into the house.

Nope, I'd give them the notice right now if that's what's required of you.

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Originally Posted by momma

... Also, if I give them notice, I have to give four weeks. (this family has read the child care act in my province, and it states four weeks. YES FOUR WEEKS:blink:)....

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Are you a licensed centre bound by this 'act' or are you a private business providing childcare?

Thank god our Act does not dictate how much notice a business has to give to terminate a client ~ that is just whack?

Ok is this your Act or something else ~ cause I browsed it and saw nothing that states you have to give 4 weeks notice to terminate?

https://web2.gov.mb.ca/laws/statutes/ccsm/c158e.php

Terminate! He is not your child and you are not his parent. You do not need to parent him. It is obvious that your own kids are effected by this kid. Your daughter have to hide so that she can get a break...? Honestly? No way, that kid will NOT be staying in my house. You are doing this job so that your kids will be at their house and have the privilege to be at home with their mom. You have to think of your own children's sanity and yours.

For a five year old he should know how to behave. He is his parents problem not yours. You can tell I'm annoyed right:)

The parents want YOU to fix him! They should be the ones who have disciplined him for the last 5 years so he doesn't behave this way. Sure, 5 year old boys are crazy, but they should have manners and filters and stop behaving badly when asked to stop.

I have to agree with Judy about terminating this one. He is disrupting your entire daycare and your own children. You always have to ask yourself how you would feel if that problem child were not there every day. Do you get up in the morning and dread your day? Sure signs that you need to make changes so that you can be happy. This job is too hard and our days are too long to be unhappy all the time.

Heres the deal, first of all: in your contract anywhere do you have stipulations on "child behavior" or "parent behavior"? if not you should concider it. years ago, I had issues with a child who ws violent, he was 4, my son was 3. I let them go immediately, it was detrement to the raising of my child and I couldnt tolerate it. Funny thing, when I brought it up to the Mother, she too got angry and began yelling at me. (IN MY HOME!) you should add to your contracts that if at any point in time the child or parents behavior puts any other children in danger or causes harm to the proper raising of the other children in care, you have the right to terminate immediately for the sake of all the others.
Second: It is a proven fact (studies have been done) that a child by the age of 5yrs has developed their personality of who they will be for the rest of their lives. if he is angry violent and mean to others, he more than likely will continue to be that way for the rest of his days with you no matter how hard you try. NOT WORTH IT!
Third: important to remember...when an older child comes to your day care for care, ALWAYS ask why they need care and where they were before they came to you. then...do your research, call the previous DayCare and ask about the child, their behavior, and why they left. Use your resources, you can learn alot. The old daycare may have saved you from taking this child in the first place. they could have told you he was terminated for violence, or bad behavior. Alot of times you will find alot through those calls, like the parents never pd, the child was trouble, the baby cried all day.

Bottom Line. Dont Do It Anymore!

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Originally Posted by Jessicca

Yes. You can ask why they need care and what about their previous day care. This can possibly let you out from trouble. Once if you know the past day care experiences then you can decide whether the kid was good for your day care.

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And THIS is why every city should have a private, local, daycare provider forum. In our city we have a Network of providers who all know each other due to the forum. And, because we talk in and off the forum we typically all know each other's kids in care. So, if you leave one provider in our city due to your child being a demon spawn it is very likely another provider will know who you are when you come knocking on her door. :yes: Inside info like this is very nice to have so providers are not taking on the last provider's nightmare clients.

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Originally Posted by kidlove

Heres the deal, first of all: in your contract anywhere do you have stipulations on "child behavior" or "parent behavior"? if not you should consider it.

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Awesome post Kidlove ... I agree specially agree with the above .... I have a code of conduct for my program that all clients and myself sign off on

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Code of Conduct

All members of my home-based program are accountable to the Code of Conduct.

All will:
 Treat themselves and others with respect
 Be courteous, fair, kind and honest to others
 Be respectful of others and their belongings
 Listen to and respect others
 Play safely and respectfully and follow the rules of the playroom and backyard
 Use appropriate language with others
 Problem solve by talking and listening
 Act in a way that will facilitate a positive learning environment for all
 Help care for and respect all toys, equipment, books, environment, etc.

Inappropriate / Unacceptable behaviours will result in one or more of the following depending on age / severity of the incident / or previous incidents or patterns of behaviour.
a) Verbal redirection and coaching on better choices
b) Quiet time away from peers but within play area followed by a verbal plan for future when ready to discuss
c) Written documentation of Incident / Parent Signed

If a child is experiencing a serious pattern of inappropriate & or physically dangerous behaviour a parent/caregiver conference with written action plan to successfully aid the child in managing the behavior will occur with a deadline for improvement or termination will result. Please note depending on the severity and risk to myself or others I reserve the right to discharge a child for physically dangerous behaviour immediately without the attempt of an action plan.

I also reserve the right to terminate a contract, without notice, if the ADULTS in a family exhibit any of the above behaviors – inappropriate conflict resolution skills will not be tolerated…while children are learning - adults should’ve long mastered these skills!

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While I think it is SAD that I have to have anything like that in a contract in childcare it really does WORK because I do not have issues of disrespect from clients at all or much aggression with children in my program and if it seeps in with the kids due to those developmental stages the parents are on it like a fly on flypaper because they KNOW it wont be tolerated here in my program .... I stress right from the interview that children thrive in consistency and having that same code of conduct at home will help them to thrive in both places!

Thank you guys for your advice.

I am going on holidays next week and said the following two weeks after my hoildays we will see if things change ( I doubt this), and if not then they have the two weeks following that to find care, as I am getting burnt out by having to redirect behavior all day.

They are very unhappy with me, and are frustrated but say they are going to MAKE SURE that behavior changes.

We live in a small community and they advised that they are very disappointed in my attitude and will be telling their friends. I said that that was their decision.

I guess we'll see how things go. (however, I think that I will be down one in T-minus 4ish weeks)

Thank you all for supporting me.

Reggio, I confirmed with my coordinator, its four weeks of notice. However I can divide it into two weeks to 'try work on things' and then two weeks to be rid of them. :)

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Originally Posted by momma

Thank you guys for your advice.

They are very unhappy with me, and are frustrated but say they are going to MAKE SURE that behavior changes.

We live in a small community and they advised that they are very disappointed in my attitude and will be telling their friends. I said that that was their decision.

I guess we'll see how things go. (however, I think that I will be down one in T-minus 4ish weeks)

Thank you all for supporting me.

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So... this family has told you they're going to bad mouth you... they've expressed their disapointment... yet they still bring their child to you every day?

This is one thing I never understood. Do they think by "threatening" you with telling other people you are suddenly going to change? I find it so strange when people say things like this but are still willing to leave their child in your care.

I'm sorry you have to deal with 4 weeks of termination notice. Seems unfair.

Yes Momma, trust me when I say I have had people threaten me.

They are only trying to make you "bend" they will con't to push your buttons.

We have to remember that we opemed our businesses for us. Not to be dictated to by others, as others would say, you business your rules.

I would also tell them that if they DO bad mouth you all over the community that you could sue them for libel! How low!

They threatened you ???? Isn't that grounds for immediate dismissal? It is in my contract !!! You said your "coordinator" ..... Are you with an agency ? Will this child be going to school in the fall? Glad your going on holidays for two weeks !! Good luck

Give them written notice NOW..at least 2 weeks of it will be your holidays and you can de-stress. They will probably find someone while you are away, especially if he is going to school. Trust me, their friends probably already know what this kid is like, so do not worry about it.

I guess you must be with an agency or something but i would think that there would be some protection for you and the other children in your care with regard to such a behavioural situation. If there isnt, then there definately should be some support for you from your coordinator with respect to the fact that the parents are threatening you. If in fact it is an agency, then shouldn't your coordinator be dealing with the parents? With agencies like wee watch, if providers have issues they can ask for assistance from the agency to deal with things like this. Good luck. I commend you for following the 4 weeks notice rule,, not sure that I could in this situation.

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Originally Posted by momma

Reggio, I confirmed with my coordinator, its four weeks of notice. However I can divide it into two weeks to 'try work on things' and then two weeks to be rid of them. :)

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