Should I advertise now?

I have a four year old in care that is delayed in speech and self help skills (potty training especially), and he has been in speech therapy and been assessed by a developmental psychologist and finally Mom and Dad have realized that he needs more help than I can provide. So last night Mom told me that he is on a waiting list for a regional centre where he will have access to the services he needs. It could be a while before he gets a spot so if I advertise I won't be able to say when the spot will be open. Help!

I guess it depends...how many other kids are your currently caring for ? I have four full timers so I have some flexibility with my last space - it can be a part timer, or it could be a short term contract - the other children provide the stability I need to run my program and pay my taxes. =) If you have fewer kids, you might need to start advertising now - this year has been horrible in my area - it's taken me forever to find clients. While I'm sure that you want to be fair with the Mom, the reality is that when her space becomes available she'll jump ship immediately (and I understand - my own children were on waiting lists for various different programs) If you can't afford to be "down a man" so to speak, maybe you should find his "replacement" now. Do you have enough energy/space in your program that you could advertise and take on a new client now ? It would mean more work now, but it would mean when your current dcb moves on you would still be financially stable.

Right now I have 4 that come full time, 1 that comes full time but only for two weeks of the month and 1 that comes two days a week (M and T for the first two weeks of the month and Th and F for the second two weeks of the month). So in reality I can't take another child on until this one leaves but I also can't be out the money for very long after he leaves.

That is a tough one ~ do you honest feel you can WAIT for the child to be in a program that can better meet his needs ... aka are YOU coping with him in your program able to meet the other children's needs despite his extra needs or should they be looking at a nanny or someone who can give one on one in the meantime?

IMO the client has been honest and open with communication ~ something we all say we want more of in clients ~ they were kind in trying to give you a heads up they will be leaving when they could have theoretically kept their mouth shut and not said anything and given you the minimum notice required by your contract.

I personally would not penalize their honesty by trying to fill the spot before they have given notice IF I felt I was able to cope with the child in my program and his additional needs were not draining my resources for the other kids in my care ~ cause depending on the centre, the size of the waiting list and where they are on it ~ it could take months or even a year for a spot to open up the kid could actually end up being eligible for SCHOOL in the mean time depending on his age?

Now if I honestly felt that this was not the best match for the child I would suggest they consider a nanny or alternative solution in the meantime and give my notice that in the best interest of the child I would have to terminate the contract and give them a sizeable notice to make other arrangements and THAN start advertizing to fill the space!

If you want good karma and mojo coming your way than my aim is to treat others better than you want to be treated yourself whenever possible!

Thanks Reggio, the boy is 4 and SHOULD have gone to school in Sept but he is not toilet trained at all and his communication skills are delayed. He has been with me over a year after being in a centre, where Mom said he wasn't doing well . It has taken about 6 mths for Mom and Dad to realize that he does in fact have a delay and now finally they are acting on it. He is not a BAD kid, just challenging at times due to his inability to carry on a conversation. He tends to throw temper tantrums when he doesn't want to do something and will throw himself on the ground or hit himself in the face and head when he is angry. He has a very hard time staying still and he will only play with toys that have sounds although I have been working on this by bringing out non-musical, non-talking toys and not allowing him to stray from that activity. I almost feel like I have failed him because after a year there has been very little progress, although his speech has improved somewhat, he can put his own coat and shoes on now but still struggles with other self dressing at times (he consistently puts both feet in the same leg of his pull up, pants or splash pants). Anyway, I guess I will hold off advertising until I know when he is leaving for sure.

IME from working in centre administration for a decade if they have a waiting list for care just like US when they are going to be looking to fill a spot they are going to choose the IDEAL candidate off that list who is the best match to the program and has the highest need so that they can make the most impact on helping ... so if this child is slated to leave to go to school in September 2013 that is going to be a lot of work for them to adjust him to their program and do all the paperwork to get him help and resources in place just for him to LEAVE the program in nine months for the school system ~ the reality at least in many areas of Ontario anyway is that sometimes the wait list to get speech and language assistance for a child is nine months itself from the time of referral by a professional to the time therapy actually starts which is why we always 'push' parents to seek help at the first signs of challenge for children at that 18 month well baby check up rather than wait this long cause we want the help in place before they are ready to start school!

IMO based on his age and what you have shared are his challenges he is even LESS likely to get a spot in a regional childcare program ~ my guess is that there will be others with LARGER issues than just speech and language and delayed training that will be a higher priority as well that are younger and would be able to be there long enough for the program to actually help the child.

Sadly I would be advocating that the clients look for arranging for speech and language therapy outside of 'centre program' and leaving him with you until he starts school ... the waiting list might be shorter privately and they might have a co-pay requirement depending on their household income but it would get him the help faster to catch him up to help him have the basic self help and other skills for starting school without making him change childcare arrangements yet again which would likely cause a regression again!

He is in speech therapy now and he turned 4 in Oct 2012 so he should have gone to JK this past Sept. Mom said that the family dr is the one pushing to get him into a centre where he will have access to a resource teacher therefore having more one on one. I have been struggling with the notion of letting him go because he is the oldest in care by over a year the next youngest will not be three until the end of January, and then I have a 2.5 yr old, 2 girls that will be 2 next month and a 19 mth old. So ideally he SHOULD be with children his age. I had a child with PDD in my care a few years ago and the resource teacher and speech therapist both came to my home to work with him, it was really chaotic at times and I am not willing to do that again. If this boy gets in to a regional centre, he can stay there and do his kindergarten programs there and then go into regular school at age 6. I told his Mom that this is the best thing for him since due to my varied and young group, it is really hard to give him the one on one attention he needs to catch up. And honestly, I think being with such a young group is detrimental to his development, even though the two almost two year olds use the potty successfully almost all day and can communicate effectively, the other children are still younger by 18 mths or more.

Special needs children also come with special funding so that can speed up their placement. I would probably have a conversation with the parents not actually asking permission to advertise but trying to get if they were given some sense of timing such as in January or not till Spring. I would probably wait till January to advertise since unless people need Jan or early Feb they aren't really going to be looking over Christmas anyways. They will get him into a program of some sort I would think in early January since I know around here daycare centres aren't any fuller than we are.

Are you in Ontario Jo?

Yes, in Brampton

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Originally Posted by playfelt

Special needs children also come with special funding so that can speed up their placement. I would probably have a conversation with the parents not actually asking permission to advertise but trying to get if they were given some sense of timing such as in January or not till Spring. I would probably wait till January to advertise since unless people need Jan or early Feb they aren't really going to be looking over Christmas anyways. They will get him into a program of some sort I would think in early January since I know around here daycare centres aren't any fuller than we are.

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Mom said that it could be 6 months but it could also be less.

They must have changed the rules of daycare and subsidy than over the past five years ... cause when I was still in centre care regional run daycares could not accept a child 'eligible for school' regardless of special needs unless the parent was willing to pay full fees for it ... if they were eligible for school even jk or sk they were expected to use that funded service and our schools are suppose to be 'integrated' so any child whose labelled special needs would get assistance through an EA and resource teachers within the classroom setting .... have they talked to his school about accommodation or just assume they would not take him since he was not toilet trained and kept him out?

Also just to clarify ~ Regional run meaning not just a 'licensed centre' but one that is OWNED and FUNDED by the City of Brampton in your case ... cause my current city does not have any regional run programs cause the City counsel here felt it was a conflict of interest since the City decides how to 'divide childcare funding' fronm the Provincial government therefore felt they should not own any of said childcare programs .... but we had centres like that in my hometown and my experience was regardless of demand in 'normal' centres they always had way long waiting list for special needs and subsidized children and they would triage who got into them based on need so someone with 'minor special needs' would be way at the bottom of the list ... back than Jk and SK were still half day or alternate days but even then if the child was 'eligible' age wise to be in school than they were expected to be in school ... the government would not fund them being in the centre full time cause in their mind they were already funding the school options (we argued in a couple cases for compassion to this cause the child was just not developmentally ready for school and they would not budge ~ parent was free to PAY for the kid to be held back in a centre but they would not allow them to use the subsidized system)

The regional centres are run by the region of Peel and as far I know, they voted to close them recently to save money so I have no idea what program Mom is talking about. Mom and Dad are separated so I have no idea what school he would go to and as far as I know they cannot attend if they are not toilet trained unless they are formally diagnosed with a special need, He is high functioning, with the exception of his speech delay and lack of toilet training. My friend is an EA and she works in a classroom with children who are non verbal, have behavioural issues and aren't usually toilet trained but it is a special program within her school and they are not integrated at all in the regular school program. Mom and Dad chose to keep him out of school this year and never gave me a reason. As far as I know they are not applying for subsidy since they both make good money, they are only going this route so that he will get a resource teacher from what Mom said last night.

Ah if they are paying full fees different rules for sure - seems a shame to keep moving him around though the school should be able to help!

Is there a medical reason for not training or is the kid just not been properly motivated that diapers are no longer an option at his age?

No medical reason that i know of, when he first came to me last fall, he would pee in the potty about once a week if i was lucky then he just stopped. He does not say anything when is wet or poopy. We tried wearing underwear under the pullup but he wet it every time and after a week Mom said it was too much work washing 5 or 6 pairs of underwear every night so we stopped that. He does stay dry during nap but will not pee anywhere but the pull up, I have had him sit for 20 minutes and nothing then as soon as the pull up is on he pees. We have tried getting him to stand, use the big toilet instead of the potty and nothing. Dad apparently has had a couple of successes but I think it was more good luck and timing. It is frustrating because if I ask him if he peed in the potty he will say yes even though he hasn't done anything and when he poops he won't say anything until I ask him. So I don't know what more to do.

I have a friend whose son was not trained until almost five. He went to JK in pull-ups...they took him and he also has some some speech issues and is seeing a speech therapist, but is otherwise normal. He lives in Ottawa. I didn't think they would take a child not toilet trained either, but they did. The mom should ask the school.

Interesting. It is too late to put him in school for this year anyway. I have no idea if the parents have even figured out what school he would attend since they don't live together anymore, they broke up about 5 or 6 months ago. I will mention your friend's situation to them. Even if the schools here would take him, it wouldn't be until Sept 2013 now.

Pretty sure you can start mid year - no different than if he moved into a new neighbourhood or moved from one province to another - it's only junior kindergarten after all :)

Honestly if he needs support better off to get it started IN SCHOOL so it can continue on into Grade 1 if need be and so forth than moving him to a centre again and than again to the school system!!

I agree Reggio, I am honestly beginning to wonder if Mom and Dad aren't giving me the whole story because a few weeks ago they had an appointment with the developmental psychologist and Dad told me that there was nothing that stood out and that the boy was normal just shy. then last week Dad suggested to me that he thought the boy had ADHd because he, himself, was hyper as a kid and now all of a sudden the GP is pushing for a resource teacher to work with him in a centre. I don't know what to think. I am going to talk to Mom again tomorrow.

Good advice Reggio - my oldest boy required intensive speech and language therapy - if we had waited for his number to come up in the public system he would not have been seen until he was almost in kindergarten - at that point they age out of the hospital programs and move into the school board's jurisdiction. =) We chose private care, and still feel that it was the best decision for our child. Early intervention makes a huge difference for the children, and sometimes a portion of it is covered by insurance - especially if you can demonstrate that the child needs the help, but will not receive it in a timely fashion if you go through the typical channels.

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Originally Posted by Inspired by Reggio

IME from working in centre administration for a decade if they have a waiting list for care just like US when they are going to be looking to fill a spot they are going to choose the IDEAL candidate off that list who is the best match to the program and has the highest need so that they can make the most impact on helping ... so if this child is slated to leave to go to school in September 2013 that is going to be a lot of work for them to adjust him to their program and do all the paperwork to get him help and resources in place just for him to LEAVE the program in nine months for the school system ~ the reality at least in many areas of Ontario anyway is that sometimes the wait list to get speech and language assistance for a child is nine months itself from the time of referral by a professional to the time therapy actually starts which is why we always 'push' parents to seek help at the first signs of challenge for children at that 18 month well baby check up rather than wait this long cause we want the help in place before they are ready to start school!

IMO based on his age and what you have shared are his challenges he is even LESS likely to get a spot in a regional childcare program ~ my guess is that there will be others with LARGER issues than just speech and language and delayed training that will be a higher priority as well that are younger and would be able to be there long enough for the program to actually help the child.

Sadly I would be advocating that the clients look for arranging for speech and language therapy outside of 'centre program' and leaving him with you until he starts school ... the waiting list might be shorter privately and they might have a co-pay requirement depending on their household income but it would get him the help faster to catch him up to help him have the basic self help and other skills for starting school without making him change childcare arrangements yet again which would likely cause a regression again!

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I have had several children in care with special needs and in all cases the "professionals" pushed for the kids to be moved to a daycare centre at least by January of the year they would start school in September. The idea was that they could bring in people to do assessments and determine what help the child would need and then make arrangements to have that available to the child as they started school. If they were in a licensed agency daycare some of the professionals can go to the home to perform services such as speech, OT/PT but not to unlicensed homes - ministry rules.

Moving to a centre allows the services to observe the child in a group and rule out things like experience, observe behviours and then work with teachers to establish learning guidelines.

I agree that they will get faster service if they go the private therapy route. The downside is once the child is actually in school they will go to the bottom of the assessment list and it could be a couple school years before the child is diagnosed for services. Starting them in preschool when the wait list is shorter and more money is pumped into the systems means that the reports follow the child into school. My belief is that since a child does need to legally start school till age 6, the preschool program would be able to accommodate him and receive funding.