This was shared with me this morning from another group - found this info online. It is now 9:32 on my computer so our future is being discussed as I type this:
http://news.ontario.ca/edu/en/2013/1...ouncement.html
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This was shared with me this morning from another group - found this info online. It is now 9:32 on my computer so our future is being discussed as I type this:
http://news.ontario.ca/edu/en/2013/1...ouncement.html
Where will they post the announcement, do you know?
From what I read in the Toronto Star this morning (headline news) that the ON government is going to designate daycares affiliated (attached) to schools to become commercial daycares. This means they will have to follow the DNA and are not independent operators.
This does not affect providers who provide care in their home. This is for the daycare centres which operate under the old 1990's loophole which allows them to operate as a "Home" daycare providers. This means they will have to operate (and be licensed, etc) as a commercial daycare.Quote:
Originally Posted by mimi
Not sure what the announcement at 9:30am will be about. I'm sitting on pins and needles.
From ON Minister of Education Liz Sandals press conference on modernizing child care, with thanks to Erin Anderson at the Globe and Mail for her tweets from the news conference. (NOTE: all announcements must be passed in the provincial legislature):
- Ontario proposes changes to daycare act, more space in licensed home day care, more power for inspectors, more care in schools
- school boards must provide before and after care for kids Grade 1-6, where need exists
- Licensed home daycare providers would be able to look after six kids (includes their own children)
- Unlicensed home daycare would only be allowed to look after five kids, and have to meet same age ratios and count their own kids
- Ontario education minister Liz Sandals suggests that over time the changes would create "thousands" of new licensed spots
- proposed new powers for inspectors to give big fines and shut down unsafe daycares "on the spot."
- "We are introducing huge teeth into the inspection process,” Education Minister Liz Sandals says of proposed daycare changes
- "There's a financial incentive right now to not be licensed. We are going to flip that.” Ontario Ed. Minister says
- Proposed law: fines for unsafe daycares rise from $2,000 to $100,000 and the province would not need a court order to do it
- With new law, inspectors could have shut down Vaughn daycare where 2-year-old died the day it happened, no judge needed
So the increase for licensed care only matters if you are willing to take on another school aged child over age 6 which most of us are not.
There doesn't look to be anything addressing the fact kids come into care at age 1 now and not 4-6 months old which was the rationale for the 2 under 2 rule.
This is going to mean that we will be down to 3 kids including our own infants/toddlers/preschoolers and only be allowed a couple more such as our own JK/SK child. So those of us not doing school runs are out.
At the same time schools will have all the grade 1-6 kids so that leaves just the JK/SK kids in schools that don't have a before/after program.
Not really seeing the incentive to be licensed yet as the ratios mean there is no difference to now except for the loss of income and loss of independence in our program
Yep...if that all comes into effect, guess I'll be shutting down. I'll make better money bartending. Shame to have wasted my education.
There really won't be a difference in income then, considering agencies take about 10$ per day per child, if we are allowed one less kid...financially it ends up being the same am I correct?
I would also like more detail about "unsafe" daycares being shut down. Hopefully they come up with a specific definition of "unsafe".
I just don't get where all the 12 month olds are going to go now. They are not addressing the demand for care for this age range and that unlicensed daycares are taking these kids on because licensed places don't have spaces. They are basically cutting that off and it will leave parents with no care options.
Feeling pretty bummed out :(
I think the unsafe part will be if there is a complaint like in the Vaughan case they can shut it down on the spot instead of calling in another ministry to do something.
Guess I will either become a "casual babysitter" and tell that to all my parents so no more receipts or claiming anything. OR I will be closing and moving in with my inlaws LOL I am due in March with baby #5 and my next youngest is 19 months. What are the odds of me finding a 3 year old when they start school at age 3.
When does this come into play from a legal standpoint. Effective immediately?
I really, really don't understand the push to have everyone licensed. From things I've heard from various people's experiences with agencies (providers and clients) they really don't sound very good. The reviews have been mediocre at best. Most people don't even seem to understand that the providers aren't licensed...only the agency is. Why not a mandatory registry with inspectors attached to that? Why agencies? I'm guessing that aspect is just a great big money thing. I was especially impressed with the fact that they want to cap parent fees. So I can't even attempt to recoup some of the money lost in this mess. The 2 under 2 is going to absolutely put me out of business. I've been building this business for 13 years and have invested a bloody fortune into it, as I'm sure many of you have. I don't know about everyone else, but I could absolutely throttle those frickin' idiots who ran such crap daycares, hurt children and gave all of us a bad name. I'm absolutely livid!
This is exactly how I am feeling right now. And yes of course this is just a big money scheme that the agencies are behind. Honestly after all the crap in the news, and after the title"government cracks down on dangerous, unsafe daycares" I am at my wits ends. I am so tired of being demonized!Quote:
Originally Posted by cfred
CityNews Toronto's article included this, I quote
"The opposition parties have said that the government needs to act against unlicensed daycares after two toddlers died in the Toronto area in July while in their care."
This makes me so mad as they just lump us all into one bag and say they have act against us like they are fighting a war ffs!!! How about working with us to improve unlicensed home daycares?? If we have to become licensed we should be entitled to the same subsidies and grants that the centres can apply for.
As for the ratios I actually haven't seen anything official with the ratios so if someone can post a link for verification then I'd appreciate it. Nowhere have I read or heard anyone talk about the effectiveness of the programs when there will be such big age gaps. The children's programming will likely suffer as it will be harder to accomodate the different developmental stages with one activity. 1 year olds and 3-4 yr olds don't even interact in centres so to increase this in home daycares is going to be problematic in my opinion. Doable for sure but far from ideal. And what happens when a child enters a new age group and throws our ratios off??? Do we have to give notice because then this whole thing will make it more difficult for everyone involved to have good quality, consistent childcare.
So stressed out thinking about it
Me too.
I am fine with staying unlicensed and including my own children in the "5" ratio. I have 4 full time children so once my baby #5 comes in March one of my families is leaving anyway so I will be down to 3 plus my own 2.
I am looking for verification on the actual numbers as well. If that is the case effective immediately that it must be 1 under 1 2 under 2 etc than I will have to close bottom line.
I can't seem to find anything about age restrictions other than what was mentioned in this article
http://www.680news.com/2013/12/03/on...aycare-system/
"The changes would also force private day cares with more than five children under the age of four to be licensed."
Playfelts post said that even unlicensed would still have to meet the ratios
Wait a minute...found this one
http://read.thestar.com/?origref=htt...ulated-daycare
The two under two rule is in there :(
Thanks for that. I'd love to see a source besides the media at some stage but this is a start.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fun&care
My kids are older than 10 so wouldn't effect my numbers in that way. There is suddenly going to be huge shortage of spots not only for infants under 12mths which there already is, but now also for 2 years and under. Also I'd be less inclined to take part timers as filling the other days would be difficult and a loss in income that I wouldn't be able to afford. I will also have to raise my rates and cut my programming costs in order to net the same amount. What a major ball ache this all is ((huff)) In Feb I will have a 2 1/2 yr old and a 16mth old, 21mth old and 2 x 12mth olds.
I'd be interested to see the number of parents who are suddenly without childcare the day this act is passed, and as a result the number of parents who are unable to find replacement care....what a mess!!
Absolutely Bright Sparks! I am really curious where all these 12 months olds are going to go now considering that most providers have at least 1 currently in care.
What are these 80% of parents going to do now?
So am I understanding this that if we stay unliscenced we can still have 5 but it includes your own (mine are in school so I don't care and I have a teacher family so those leave in the summer and I can insert my kids in their spots) .... And we can only have two under two. Is this right?
Yes Crayola that is exactly right. 1 under 12 months 2 under 24 months including your own.
Lots of HDC have more than 2 under 2. How is the government going to help parents when we start dropping all the under 2's. They are putting parents in the middle of this mess. So I am now wondering how they ae going to help them when they are left without care.
I have 3 under 2. I will have to drop one. I will have to let go my assistant, stop serving organic meals, cut down in crafts, etc. and all this until I finish upgrading my skills to get out and find a job. If I'm lucky I will be left with 3 kids that don't need drop off and pick up from school (when following the rule of 3 under 3) . That means I will hardly cover my costs.
I am also wondering why aren't we allowed to have an individual license instead of having to work for an agency. I worked for Wee Watch the first year and I did not have any value added, but for sure they always took a big cut out of my income. Why would I want to do that again? Agencies have a cap on the fees. Currently I am charging more than agencies in my area. If I go to an agency I will make about $20 less per day per kid (after they take their cut).
Ok thanks .... The only time this affects me them is during the summer when school is out .... So I'm not overly concernedQuote:
Originally Posted by Sassygirl
The rule with agencies is 2 under 2 and 3 under 3
I think so. But what about b/a school when your kids are home? Would that then put you over your limit??Quote:
Originally Posted by Crayola kiddies
This is absolutely going to affect me in a big way. I have two kids, one in half day SK and one that will be going to JK in Sept. I only have pt (seems to be the only need in the area), and I have f DCK. I'd have to get rid of 2, and tell the other three that they will loose their spots unless they want to pay for ft. Or raise rates. Either way, I either close, and the parents are out daycare, or I raise rates to keep my income consistant, and the parents get screwed. The parents are the ones getting screwed here.
And what about all these school aged kids during the summer when their board run care closes for 2 months?? Where are they going??
my husband is home in the am with the kids and puts them on the bus ...they don't come down stairs to the daycare in the am and they get home 15 mins before I shut down.
This sentence has me worried: "Ontario will introduce legislation that gives inspectors new powers to close unsafe locations “on the spot” and give hefty fines to caregivers who break the rules"
Will we be given a list of safety criteria that we must ensure our daycare meets? My biggest concern is that I have a swimming pool so am fairly certain that I will not be allowed to continue my business (even though it is fenced and locked). Does anyone know if you can have a pool if you're licensed?
I was kind of bracing myself for this but was expecting the changes to be announced in the spring.
As for the ratios, I understand that the rule is one child under one two under two, etc. but is one defined as 12 moths, and two 24 months, etc?
Do you mind me asking you how many kids you care for and their ages right now. I am just interested in knowing how you make this business viable with all the restrictions. My kids are over 10 so they will never be an issue but I am wondering how you will stick within the ratios and still be full? ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by Crayola kiddies
Well...this SUCKS! I have 4 under 2 yrs, 1 that will be 3yrs in January and my own 2 girls (6 & 4). Anyone know when this is all supposed to take effect?
Your agencies charge $10/day/child???? That's obscene.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fun&care
In AB our agencies are funded by the gov't through child and family services; it's really the only reason it actually works. I pay them $70/month, and $40 of that is insurance. It basically works out to $10/child/month, and I only have 3 kids (not including my own). I believe the agency staff is paid by the government, with the agency fees mainly going to admin stuff. They also run 6 PD trainings a year.
We're limited to 6 including our own kids, 2 under 2, 3 under 3. It does result in a lot of 1 year olds without care, but we still have non-accredited day homes with no restrictions on ages. One of my neighbours runs one and she's got mainly under 2s.
We also have levels of accreditation based on education and experience, and the government pays top-up wages to providers with agencies, up to $6.62/hr of time you have kids in your home. We also get $2500 (meant to be spent on things for the program, but it's not monitored) after the completion of one year (for the first two years), and a bonus for returning to child care after being gone for some period of time - it didn't apply to me so I'm not sure what the time frame is. I need to do a lot of work (submit meal and program plans, have monthly visits, attend PD), but the extra money FAR outweighs the extra hour it takes me a week.
Bottom line is if the government it going to go ahead with such tight restrictions, they need to cough up some incentive programs. They're going to have A LOT of providers jumping ship as it just won't be financially beneficial or feasible at all. What happens to the economy when a significant number of parents need to quit because they can no longer find or afford childcare? Not a good situation.
Does the minister actually understand what she is suggesting? With all day kindergarten starting as young as 3 3/4, how are we supposed to meet ratios? Fortunately, my daughter is 20 so wont count. I will choose to stay unlicensed but if I have to follow the two under two etc, I will just raise my fees so that I can afford to have less kids. This plan is just going to make daycare more expensive for parents. They need to change the ratios to take Full day kindergarten into account.
Yeah, my kids are older too, so that doesn't affect me. Like you, if I stay open, I'll likely jack up the rates too. Also, ethically raised meats, premium veggies/fruits will have to go....back to budget shopping for sure. Craft supplies and equipment will be pared back and all those little 'niceties' I've always looked after (such as wipes, sunscreen, meds, epipens on site, lunches out and other free excursions. It's a shame.
These are just proposals though, correct? Just because they're proposed doesn't necessarily make it so....at least not right away. Really, can you imagine the economic repercussions of a sudden action? There's no way. The province just can't support the back lash. I love the idea of a registry and independent inspectors hired for the job. Bring it on! All these proposals are nothing more than a very thinly veiled agenda in favour of agency care. Surely they'll look at different options, not necessarily what's being proposed today. I'd like to believe that people are smarter than this.
Here is another article
http://metronews.ca/news/toronto/870...se-regulation/
It basically says that all home daycares will be forced to join an agency! If that is the case I will close. So annoyed that I have put more than 20 years into my business, and now my hard work and education is going to waste! I don't think I could ever go back to working in a centre!!!
sure .....current enrollment I have 12.5 months, 22 months, 2 yrs 1 month, 2 years 8 months, 3 years 1 monthQuote:
Originally Posted by bright sparks
I think that keeps me legal
No, you have 4 kids under 3 yrs old. It probably wouldn't come into effect that quickly though so your 2.8 will be 3 soon enough but as it stands now, you would have to get rid of one
What I think is so frustrating is that we have to rely on media reports to keep us updated on changes that will effect not only our livelihood but also the children we care for everyday. I can only imagine the scramble that will ensue when private daycare providers have to start 'cutting' children from their group.
I can't work in a centre either. I mean, I COULD do it, but wouldn't be able to support myself or my kids. I had a look earlier today to see if wages for daycare workers has improved at all since I graduated ECE in 1994. Nope. Downtown Toronto is highest paid at $16.41 (something like that) per hour. Most providers make a whopping $20, 000/ year. Wow.....I mean, really Ontario....thank you soooooo very much for putting such value on our children as to pay those of us willign to take care of them at poverty level. Yep.....I see a big commitment to the wellbeing of children there. I don't know why I bothered to go to school for this. It's absolute crap.Quote:
Originally Posted by jodaycare
I have one 17 mo, two 18 mo, one 2yrs 2month and my son 2.5 yo. If this is effective right now I will have to get rid of one of the younger ones and the 2yo. So I will be left with only 2kids. Over 3yo are harder to find since usually most are in their original daycare or out to preschool. Just to get by while I get a job or start another business I will have to rise my fees to the babies. I am thinking something around $10 to $15 more per kid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crayola kiddies
And what exactly are the fines up to $250K for? I have no intention of running an illegal daycare or breaking any rules so I'm not particularly worried but still makes me anxious that due to an innocent mistake that I could lose my flipping house!!!! An illegally run day care which is a danger to the well being should be shut down immediately nevermind a fine, but what about those who just aren't well informed and just need someone to work with them versus against them. Someone mentioned the other day about sticking to other rules such as feeding the kids meals following Canada's food guide, well I wouldn't be able to run then as anyone who knows about nutrition knows that the CFG is keeping the nation unhealthy not healthy. Parents visit different daycares for their differences to find the right match for them and their child. So what do I say now at interviews, this is how id like to run my daycare but unfortunately I will have to charge you an extra $10 a day just to be able to afford to feed your kids hotdogs and as a treat once a week the kids can paint!?!?
This is outrageous. I think it would be very interesting to have a meeting between parents and daycare providers only to shed some reality on how this not only effects the dcp but also how it will balls up the parents life and the increased chance of parents losing their jobs due to the inability to find daycare and also because they will continuously have to find new daycare when the dcp ratios change with aging of the kids. How the hell do we decide which kids stay and which go...Omg this is too much....
I found this and seems that still needs to be approved:Quote:
Originally Posted by cfred
http://news.ontario.ca/edu/en/2013/1...ation-act.html